TheTruth

Quote: The sad thing is that we could have ALL THREE of those teams on the team. Ironically all in guys who were the 2nd picks in our drafts PG play? Acie Law IV needs more minutes. Kid was building confidence in that game he had a career high assists in 3 point shooting? Where's the freaking Sniper? Defensive Big? On paper, Solomon Jones has the highest extension in the ENTIRE NBA. Put him in the game! Totally agree about Acie. Let's hope he takes over when he gets his time to shine. The "Sniper" is unfortunately stuck on the bench because Woody has lost faith in him. Yes, I love Solo. But, my opinion doesnt count. Woody doesnt like him. He seems to think he is "too weak and skinny." If you arent going to develop the talent you have, which is shameful and your job as a coach, then you either let them rot on the bench (which is currently what is happening) or use them to get someone you WILL play.

I agree with just about everything you just said Lascar. Here are some facts: 1) Horford is barely through HALF of his ROOKIE season 2) Horford is NOT a big part of this offense (yet) 3) Horford is STILL developing 4) Horford WILL get stronger Listen, people are ragging on Horford like he has been in the league for 5 years. He IS going to get stronger over the offseason and will probably pick up a couple moves or two to utilize at the 5. Yes, his biggest advantages are his quickness and his maturity. The kid is a worker who is quick for his size. He has all offseason to fully utilize his weapons with that year under his belt. He will develop some of the moves that you (exodus) talk about. How well they will be developed remains to be seen. I know he is no Dwight Howard, but Howard was known as a big time rebounder and dunker (and little else) his rookie year. I remember reading an article in which HE said that he focused on getting much bigger and improving his game in the offseason so he could dominate other Centers in the league. Guess what? Howard came back several pounds heavier stronger, and with improved technique. What makes you think Horford can't develop some of these moves in time?

Thanks, I will get a chance to look hear it this time. Oh, and you and that darn bug...rawr

Quote: Quote: Actually, the article said the following trade works: This trade works on the RealGM Trade Checker… The Hawks receive: Andre Miller Herbert Hill Louis Amundson The Sixers receive: Tyronn Lue Lorenzen Wright Salim Stoudemire Solomon Jones We should jump all over that. Truth be told that it probably wouldn't manner. None of these guys have contributed to the team on a consistent basis. Anybody in the NBL or whatever it's called could give us just as much as these guys. Hot, which players are you responding to specifically?

Actually, the article said the following trade works: This trade works on the RealGM Trade Checker… The Hawks receive: Andre Miller Herbert Hill Louis Amundson The Sixers receive: Tyronn Lue Lorenzen Wright Salim Stoudemire Solomon Jones We should jump all over that.

I like to make posts that get people thinking...instead of just espousing popular sentiments. So, I will give you the three needs our team needs in the immediate future: Most Important Need: 3 pt Shooting We are at the bottom of the league in terms of three point shooting. It's sad really. Teams have gotten smart and decided to play a lot of zone on us--which we have a hard time shooting out of. Having several legit 3 pt shooting threats opens the floor and makes everything else that much easier. It changes the way the opponent defends and makes things easier for your big men. It also can be a huge momentum-shifter that can either get you back into games (like several teams have done against us) or quickly extend leads (like the Lakers did to us in the 1st half). Of our starting 5, JJ is about the only one who takes a 3 pt shot with some regularity (AJ shoots them, but not very many and he doesnt play 40 mpg like JJ does). We need another shooter who can come off the bench to 1) Knock down those three pointers and 2) Give JJ a rest from his logging of too many minutes. Lue is nice and all, but I am looking toward the future. Lue plays little Defense (check his +/- ratio after games) and will likely be gone at the end of the year. Having a good 3 pt shooter means little if the other team is going to get those points right back because he can't play defense... Second-most Important Need: Consistent PG play What a difference a few months make. Immediately after the draft, we were lauding the depth at PG we had. Unfortunately, it didnt quite turn out the way we wanted. Speedy is not fit to play this season; Acie, until recently, has played like a shell-shocked player; and T Lue has been, well, T Lue. Had it not been for AJ's surprising play at the beginning of the season, we would really be screwed. We all know Acie was drafted to be the "PG of the future." It was great to see him get 8 assists in about 20 minutes the other night, but he needs consistent minutes and consistent play (both shooting and dishing) in order to turn into the "PG of OUR future." AJ is a serviceable PG that is decent, but he probably won't be back next year. Lue is nothing more than an undersized SG in a PG's body that is a shoot-first, shoot-second, pass-third type PG. Plus, he is such a liability on Defense. Like AJ, you cant put him on the quick PGs becuz he will get lit up all night every night. Not to mention that he will even more likely be gone at the end of the season. Needless to say, we need another PG sooner than later. Having consistent PG play makes the life of every player on the court that much easier. Third-most Important Need: Defensive Big Man People have joined the debate of whether Horford is a better C or PF; this leads to the subsequent discussion of where do you start him and how many minutes does he get at each position. My answer is simple: If we are going to be a consistent running team, he will be just fine at Center. If we are going to be more of a half-court offense type team, we really need to try to get someone bigger. As most will tell you, the Hawks look good when they run. Our starting five (especially when Acie starts) is one of the most, if not the most, athletic bunch in the league. They are long, strong, and can run up the court with ease. It is truly amazing to see someone of Horford's size run the court like a Guard would. From my perspective, it seems as though the Hawks will be better suited to run the ball, keep Horford at Center, and look to acquire a RESERVE big man (at LEAST 6'10) that plays good defense and is a sure rebounder. If you are going to be a running team, you got to play Defense or else you will be like the Suns (score 105+ easily, but cant blow teams out because your defense is so average that you allow teams to score 95, 100 points each game). This reserve big man would help ease the pressure off Horford (who already logs 32 mins a game), and won't cause such a hole in our defense when he is out of the game. The big man could log about 15-20 mpg tops and be an inside presence to help guard bigger players as well. Also, let's keep in mind that Horford is averaging 9.6/10. He is a rookie! He will develop more moves and will likely be a much better defender as he adds weight and strength. Furthermore, he will likely score more too as his game develops. However, Shelden and Pachulia are largely not very good (although a change in scenery would do them both some good), and Pachulia especially is no defensive stalwart. Shelden does not get PT, and the only excuse I hear from Solomon haters is that he is "too weak." Sigh. And Lorenzen Wright...well, nothing needs to be said. Bottom Line is that we need another big man off the bench who WILL get the PT to rebound and defend when Horford isnt in. Thoughts?

Quote: They can get the 6th spot, and face Orlando. Obviously, although anything can happen, I have to agree with you that THAT scenario gives us the best chance to get into the 2nd round.

I know you didnt direct this to me, but I will say this since I am a general critic of both Woody and Lue: As you probably witnessed during our last game, I gave Lue his props for having a good game. At the same time, I acknowledged that such a game is the exception, and not the rule, with Lue. I further cautioned that this would likely give Woodson enough license to play Lue insane minutes the next several games at the expense of Law. Guess what? So far I am right. Did Lue play well? Yep. Was he a large part in why we won? Damn right he was. But was it okay for Law to not even see ONE second on the floor? No way in hell. As for Woodson...it is great that we got the win over an elite team like the new-look Lakers. However, he still made some mistakes. He left a cold as ice Marvin in there too long, I could say the same for Pachulia, Acie Law got no burn...etc My biggest problem with him now seems to be his mismanagement of the bench--and his substitutions more specifically. In summation, Woodson was able to help guide his players to a great win over a great team. Even the staunchest Woodson haters can't dispute that. However, he is just one half of the equation. Coaches coach, but players play. And well, I think we can all agree that our young talent played AWESOME basketball and made Kobe look human and humbled those highly-favored Lakers.

Good grief. Some losers need to be fired over this. These are isolated incidents no more. We already have to replay one game because of their errors...

Quote: Thats a great question. Im dead serious saying that the Hawks should fight like hell to make sure Marion CANNOT play those last 50 seconds since he was not a member of the tem at the time. That would be STUPID as all get out if those hoes let Marion play in Shaq's place. What they need to do is just give us the win by default. It's not like the Heat are making the playoffs...that one win could be HUGE in terms of our likely playoff seeding damnit!

It totally smacks with desperation for the Suns. Shaq is just about done and I guess they figured they could really use his inside presence in the playoffs to get over the hump. I see what they were thinking because, after all, it is their defense that keeps them from making it all the way. Scoring 120 pts a game is great, but when your opponent routinely scares you because you cant easily win a 110 or 120 pts game, something is wrong. But seriously, the Suns are hella desperate. Then again, it's not like their team isn't any good. I'd give the edge to the Heat on this one. But then again, it's not like the Heat are going anywhere...

It was refreshing to see us effectively employ the zone defense to a team for once. After all, Philly is not a great 3 pt shooting team either, so that is a large part of why they struggled with it (like we do). We really need to make sure we find a way to bust out of a zone defense when it is used against us, because when it is, and we are not shooting particularly well (outside of the last 3 quarters of last night's game and a couple games before then), then we will continue to see teams use it effectively against us in such merciless regard.

Quote: This should ALWAYS be the goal of the Hawks!! Tempo doesn't necessarily mean just fast break points but using our speed to our advantage. ------------------- Exactly. It plays to our strengths. When we slow things down, we do NOT look good at all. We should be running circles against considerably less athletic or slower teams like Detroit, the Lakers, etc when we make a TOTAL commitment to it.

Quote: You'll get much more participation if you had this as a poll. Some of the people who have been wanting Woody's head since the start of last season, might not post on this thread, given the either/or scenario you gave. But in a poll, where all votes are anonymous ( unless you tell someone how you voted ), you'll tend to get a more honest perspective of how people really feel. Didn't think too much about making it a poll since I wanted to get the topic up quickly before I had to leave. Good suggestion though. I'll look into it next time.

Quote: Quote: Here's what I know... I went to the game, when the Hawks came to Philly. And one of the Philly fans told me, "I thought the Hawks were the most athletic team across the board. That was until Smith went to the bench. Without him, they are no more athletic than the Spurs." Of course I laughed him off. But since then, I have noticed that he may just be right. Without him in the lineup, we are normal. But he must be some athletic freak, to give this team that type of perception across the league. This guy has some value...and thats before you realize his age. That's not even remotely true though. Al Horford is in the top 5% of athleticism for guys playing the 5. The way he runs the floor along with Marvin, Chill, etc. gives us a lineup with 5 guys who can push the basketball and create their own shot potentially Not to mention we have a team of unselfish guys who can also create for their teammates. Seriously, all they raved about concerning Horford coming out of college was his awesome athleticism for a big. I swear, that was like every other word out of any analysts' mouth (that and that he was probably too short to play the 5 and that he was a great pick for the Hawks at #3).

Quote: Lets get one thing straight....Lue at PG is not the answer for this team. His role should be to come in for a few....knock down some shots...maybe some 3's and then go back to the bench. He is a HUGE liability on defense. Lue did a decent job tonite, but let's be real people...we won this game because of Josh Smith. He is stepping it up, while JJ is faultering. This team needs to be built around this guy. He could be a monster in this league some day if he puts it all together on a nightly basis. I say deal JJ before the deadline and get a real PG and a C in here pronto. JJ is the past and Smoove in the future. He is the heart and soul of this team. If we were to deal JJ during the season for that, we would pretty much be screwed imo. If our Defense does not hold up (as it hasn't compared to December), we have a hard enough time scoring to win. JJ may be hurt, but he wont be hurt long. We absolutely NEED his scoring. Furthermore, he is the only one who commands consistent double teams and attention. If it weren't for that, we would be even more screwed offensively. Now, I would be open to such a JJ trade in the offseason though if we could add another shooter off the bench as well. Do we still need a PG and a big off the bench? Absolutely. Would I give up JJ DURING THIS SEASON to do it? Probably not. Oh, and like I said, if anyone thinks T Lue is the answer at PG after this game, they dont know basketball.

Quote: Quote: We should have extended him pre-season. That was dumb. His agent would have been even dumber to get him extended before the season began - so don't blame the front office as it takes 2 to make a deal. True, but the FO pretty much low-balled him knowing that he likely wouldn't take the deal. But you are right, more could have been done on both sides. Either way, they will have one las tango this offseason to get it right.

Quote: Why would we want to make the playoffs where anything can happen where we could let our young players get some playoff experience and have something to build off of next year and added motivation for our young players to re-sign? It would be so much better having the opposite of all of that and giving Phoenix another lottery pick. Man you doom and gloom fans sure know how to frustrate the rest of us after a win. 1)As I said in my post, it is a serious question, and only you have decided to ignore my disclaimer about it not being as inflammatory as you will likely take it, and well, read it as inflammatory. Go figure. 2) I posted this shortly after the game started (and would have done it sooner, but eh, we all have real lives you know). 3) It was a question to conjure up some civil and MATURE debate. I wanted to hear both sides of the story without some idiot with his head up his arse talking about "doom and gloom so-called fans" and fire and brimstone. Again, only you looked at it with such a negative vibe when none was suggested. Maybe it's not "us" who intensify the negative vibe after all and more so you... 4) I managed to get some good responses from a couple other guys who contributed their opinion with maturity. Now I wonder why you decided to fall so short on such an innocuous topic. 5) Who is espousing doom and gloom? Facts: Woody knows his job security hangs in the balance pending the outcome of the season. Most people are upset over Woody's coaching ability. Those that are not are in the minority. Put another way, the VOCAL majority claim Woody has not been up to par. Some do NOT want Woodson back EVEN if we make the playoffs, but get owned and bounced out in the first round. Thus, I created this topic so Woody-haters could voice their opinion given my query, and Woody supporters could vouch for the job Woodson does EVEN if we get bounced out in the first round. Again, the question was IF we got bounced out of the first round. If we make it past that, I'm sure there would be far less dissenters (and rightly so). If only people didnt come into threads and make things so unnecessarily difficult...

Quote: well if the guy was going 3 for 9 I'd agree - but let's remember that in his 8 assist game he scored ZERO points. Yeah, on ONE FG attempted and ZERO FTs. Hard to get points that way. He's just got to establish himself fully when he's on the court. I'd take 8 assists all day everyday as long as he isnt turning it over or is getting charged with stupid fouls (remember when he would get like 2 fouls as soon as he came into the game?) That has become less of an issue now. The offense looked good when he was dishing it out even though he wasn't scoring. Remember, he BARELY saw the floor in the second half that game.

Now that you mention it, is it me, or has he taken fewer and fewer perimeter shots? It appears as though nearly all of his points come from putbacks, tip-ins, or layups/dunks. Appears as though Smoove is moving in that direction as well with his recent penchant for taking fewer perimeter shots than he had earlier in the season.

Yeah, I'm curious too. But what an awful name to call yourself in a professional environment. Good grief. A tad bit of decorum, please? Anyway, that Sekou article was on point. Hard to disagree with any of it.

Dude has been a straight beast past few games. He finishes near the rim so well. Hell, a lot better than some of our other guys. How he shoots so well with that funky azz delivery is beyond me...but he does! It's nice to see awesome bench production, because without him, our bench would be straight garbage.

Quote: I think Dolfan pretty much nailed it - he's not a Lue fan but he gave him his due. Let's face it boys and girls - Acie is a solid citizen and a worker but if you can't hit the side of a barn with a shot you simply need to develop. D-league? D League? Not so fast my friend. He just came off an 8 assist night. Acie needs consistent minutes to prove to me that he can't put up similar numbers on a somewhat consistent basis. That game was the first time in a while that he did not look absolutely shell-shocked out there. His shot will come...it will come...

Quote: Quote: Quote: Funny how there are no posts about his play, after the 2nd half. Damn bandwagon fans. These guys need to watch the post game show. The guy is obviously hurting right now. He was literally covered in ice packs after the game. Give him a break. if he's hurt he needs to sit, he's only making it worst. It seems we're fine without him. I wouldn't go as far as saying we are "fine without him." However, I do agree that he does need to rest a bit. Woody knows he is in the thick of the playoff race and since he doesnt trust anyone else on a consistent basis on the offensive end, he figures he doesn't have the luxury to sit Joe Johnson a game or two. We play FAR TOO INCONSISTENT basketball ball for Woody to feel inclined to do so--at least, that is what I am guessing Woody is thinking (rightly or wrongly). With that said, if it were left up to me, I would sit Joe for one game and see how he feels afterwards. He looked awful when the cameras panned over to show him while he was on the bench at one point in the game. He is clearly playing in a lot of pain. At least he isnt whining about it and is sticking it out like a trooper. He still needs to sit a game or two though. Just goes to show how much Woody doesnt trust his other guys and how badly we need another shooter off the bench.

Quote: Quote: Woody is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't then in your eyes because if he doesn't put Lue in we may not have won the game. He made a good adjustment going to Lue tonight just like he made a good adjustment NOT using Lue much against the Nets. You're kidding yourself if you think Lue helped us win this game. We are lucky that he didn't help us lose this game. I'm starting to think that you didn't even watch the game...or you are just clueless and find bashing Lue convenient. Any other night I would be ALL OVER T Lue. His defense was not stellar, but it was halfway decent (FOR HIM). Did he get abused? Sure. But if you had watched that game closely, our interior defense is what was getting the Sixers' back in the game more than anything (we also started turning it over and didnt have a FG at like the 2 min mark in the 4th for 5 mins before that). EDIT @ 10:21 pm: With that said, ANYONE who uses this aberration of a game for T Lue as an excuse to play him big time minutes for the next several games is seriously an idiot.