niremetal

Dude, you said you'd take Jason Terry over JJ. I don't agree with Joker on a heck of a lot, but I agree that it's not really worth discussing JJ's relative merits as a player with someone who says something that breathtakingly absurd. I mean, you said "a healthy Brandon Roy." With a caveat like that, we might as well throw in "young Michael Jordan." Or "resurrected George Yardley." Or "Michael Vick if he had been 5 inches taller and decided to focus on basketball instead of football." Or "Oprah Winfrey if she had testicles and was a foot taller, 50 pounds lighter, and as good at playing basketball as she is at making money." When you put a non-existent player on your list of "SGs who are better than JJ," the conversation has stopped being serious.

I was just pointing out that you clearly have not been a huge JJ fan if you think his peak was 2005-2008. He's maintained a higher level of play since 2008 than he did in 2005-2006. Unless all you care about is box score stats. The "I was a huge JJ fan" was just a pathetic effort to give yourself undeserved credibility before you bashed him. I accept that JJ's not as good as he was 3 years ago. No 31 year old is. But you still can count on one hand the number of SGs in the league who are better than him. Just ask the NBA coaches who named him to this year's All-Star team. Or Deron, who was heading out the door until he saw JJ walking through it. Or Ray Allen. Or Manu. And healthy Brandon Roy? That's like saying a thin Fat Albert.

Or Ray Allen. Or Manu. And healthy Brandon Roy? That's like saying a thin Fat Albert.

If you were a huge JJ fan, you'd know that he made his first All-Star Game in 2007. To say 2005-2008 was his peak is ridiculous, since that only encompasses 2 of his 6 All-Star appearances and doesn't touch his All-NBA appearance. And where do people get that he is still a premiere wing? Six straight ASGs and counting, brah. And for all the Josh partisans talking about Joe's inefficiency and Josh's efficiency in terms of scoring - Joe killed Josh eFG% (.521 to .470) and annihilated him TS% (.557 to .499) last year. In his 8 year career, Josh's TS% has had a grand total of 1 season (2010-2011) where his TS% has been higher than Joe's. And if you take out JJ's elbow-injury-ridden first 6 weeks of the year, I bet he had a higher TS% than Josh that year too. Haters gonna hate, but outside Hawks fan forums, no one thinks that 0 time All-Star Josh is better than 6 time (and counting) All-Star JJ. How'd you do on the reading comprehension portion of the LSATs back in the day, AHF? Also, when did Derek Harper play with Michael Jordan? Anyway, put another way - how often do you see two "reigning" All-Star guards on the same team? I think that is the point people are getting at. It will be very tough to come up with defensive schemes that contain both Deron and JJ. You can't just stick your best perimeter defender on one and put a scrub on the other without risking a beatdown. Even among the guys you mentioned, coaches didn't worry about about Jeff Hornacek (at least in his Utah days) or Norm Nixon going off on them. Most teams have, at most, one good perimeter defender, and they put that guy on the opposing team's best offensive guard. Can't really do that when both guys are top 5 players at their respective positions.

Every single NBA coach just spit out their margarita and started laughing.

Mid 20s in the modern NBA is a hard sell - doubly so in the East. Only four players averaged more than 24ppg last year. I think the main benefit for JJ of playing in Brooklyn is that he'll get to go back to being off the ball like he was in Phoenix. The lower defensive attention should make him slightly more efficient from the field. Unlike in Phoenix, he'll get more touches - probably ~16 FGAs per game rather than ~14. I think 18-20ppg with about a .530 eFG% (and ~.570 TS%) will be about right.The main benefit for the Nets, however, is that JJ off the ball means a much more efficient and fast-paced team. We used JJ as the de facto PG on at least a third of our possessions for the past 4 years (and more like 50% of possessions before that). That made our pace slower and resulted in a lot of rushed or low-percentage shots at the end of the shot clock. That won't happen if JJ is only initiating the offense on relatively rare occasions.In short, I think that JJ himself will, on paper, look about the same next year as he did this past year. But playing off the ball will give an efficiency boost to his team. That will make him a "better" player in the ways that matter most, even though it won't show up much on the stat sheets.

I don't think Ferry is planning on building this team up for the next year. If he was, he wouldn't have traded a 6-time All-Star for spare parts. That made it pretty clear that his focus is clearing cap space for 2013, with a secondary goal of stockpiling future draft picks. So I don't think he is "scheming" anything. Listening to offers for our remaining tradeable assets, but that's it.

I'm of the opinion that the importance of the PG is way, way overrated in the modern NBA. But Devin Harris > CP3 as a PG (whether here or anywhere else)? That's

We're rebuilding. Taking shots away from our young players is not a good idea.

Comparing Iverson and JJ is like comparing apples to oranges...or at least Red Delicious to Granny Smith. They were asked to play different roles and took very different approaches to the game on both ends of the floor. Like the debate over who is GOAT, it depends on what you're looking for, who the player is surrounded with, and the type of system in which he's playing.I don't see how Iverson could have fit in with the Hawks' roster over the past 5 years. I would venture a guess that if you just did a straight swap-out, the Hawks would have done worse with AI than with JJ (yes, even the AI in his prime). Especially considering how much the Hawks would have been destroyed on backcourt defense.Then again, put JJ on the '01 Sixers and that team doesn't come close to the Finals.So yeah....don't see much sense in arguing over this.PS: Red Delicious >>>>>> Granny Smith.

How many guys made 5 or more All Star teams for the Hawks? Six players:Bob Pettit (11)Dominique Wilkins (9)Lou Hudson (6)Joe Johnson (6)Cliff Hagan (5)Lenny Wilkens (5)If you're excluding players who led miserable teams, the Hudson era Hawks didn't get past the second round and got worse (rather than better) as his time with the team went on.It's borderline given how strict the Hawks are with their banner standards, but I say yes.And whoever said Pistol Pete has got to be kidding. Great college player who didn't do jack shit with the Hawks.

Ferry was hired by the Spurs, went to the Cavs, and then was re-hired by the Spurs. Anyone who the Spurs hire twice is probably a pretty damn good basketball man.

Like I said in a similar post in "Trade Ideas": We basically acquired the pick with the same conditions that the Nets received when they acquired the pick in the Terrence Williams trade. Assuming this is accurate, the pick is actually a lottery protected pick from 2012-2016. If the Rockets are in the lottery every year through 2016, then it becomes an unprotected second round pick in 2017 plus cash.

It was a salary dump. Morrow might be a decent bench player - this year's Flip - but I don't expect much else from the trade. And it's entirely possible that we trade Morrow before the season starts anyway. Good question about the Houston pick. We basically acquired the pick with the same conditions that the Nets received when they acquired the pick in the Terrence Williams trade. Assuming this is accurate, the pick is actually a lottery protected pick from 2012-2016. If the Rockets are in the lottery every year through 2016, then it becomes an unprotected second round pick in 2017 plus cash.

You see synergy. I see two guys who would take the term "enabler" to a whole new level.Oh, and Josh is not a good post defender. He's a great help defender and a mediocre post defender.

I like the idea of going after D12. But frankly, I can't fathom how Josh Smith will ever have a significant role on a championship winning team here. He needs a major mindset adjustment, and that will never happen as long as he remains on this roster, facing no consequences for constantly trying to prove that he's a perimeter player.Maybe some people look at that photoshopped picture and see the core for a contender. I see the core of a team where Josh spends even more time on the perimeter shooting more jumpers and throwing more ill-advised passes than he ever has before. One that makes it no further than the one we had the past three years.

The best Hawks player since Nique.Rebuilding time. Again.

Why did people bother responding to him after he confirmed this?

Fun fact - the guy who "abused" the laissez faire regulations of the pre-Stepien Rule era the most by trading mediocre veterans to the Cavs in exchange for lottery picks? The then-young GM of Dallas, Rick Sund.In September 1980, he traded Mike Bratz to the Cavs for the Cavs' 1984 1st round pick. That turned out to be #4 overall and Sund used it on Sam Perkins.A month later, he traded Richard Washington and Jerome Whitehead to the Cavs for the Cavs' 1986 1st round pick (ended up being #7 overall - Roy Tarpley) and a 1983 1st Round pick (from Atlanta, which ended up being #11 overall - Derek Harper).Finally, three months after that, Sund traded Geoff Huston to the Cavs for their 1985 1st Round pick. That turned out to be #7 overall and was used to select Detlef Schrempf.Not a single one of the veterans Stepien acquired from Dallas had even a memorable season after the trades. All of the picks acquired turned out to be lottery picks that were used on solid NBA players, with Schrempf becoming a borderline Hall of Famer and the rest becoming borderline All-Stars. The Mavs made the playoffs 5 straight years starting in 1983, the first year one of the draftees played. The drafted players all played significant roles on the Mavs team (led by Mark Aguirre and Rolando Blackman) that came within 1 game of the making the NBA Finals in 1988 (lost to the Lakers in the WCF).The Cavs were useless in the early-to-mid 80s, only turning it around after they acquired the #1 overall pick in the 1986 Draft - a pick that was itself the product of a two-step-Stepien. The Sixers had acquired the pick in 1979 from the Clippers in exchange for Joe Bryant, and then traded the pick to the Cavs of Draft Eve in exchange for Roy Hinson. Both Bryant and Hinson had unremarkable careers after their respective trades. The Cavs used the pick on Brad Daugherty, who (like Tarpley and everyone else in the 1986 Draft Class) saw his career cut depressingly short.Which once again proves my theory - Germans love David Hasselhoff.

Why would we build around a Portuguese baseliner who went out in straight sets to the #126 player in the world in the first round of Wimbledon? Yeah. Great examples of guys to build around there. Even if Doc was an example. Which Doc isn't because HE WAS DRAFTED.

He was the frontman for one of the most underrated rock bands of all time.Oh, you mean the athlete?He had a wicked splitter but wasn't very durable.Oh, you mean the basketball player?I have no clue.

Who the hell has gone to Phillips to see Smoove play? The Hawks were 20th in attendance this year, 22nd last year, and haven't been higher than 18th since Smoove came to town. Casual fans don't give a rat's ass about Smoove.

Pros: Pau Gasol gets 20/10 without hurting his team by taking bad shots. He's efficient. He's a better on-ball defender than Josh and gives us flexibility against opposing big men (muscle them up with Al or bother them with Gasol's 7'5 wingspan). He's a better passer from the high post, and much better off the pick and roll. He has the best low post repertoire in the league aside from Tim Duncan.Cons: We lose out on help defense, highlight reel plays, and...I'm out.Don't kid yourself into thinking that if the Lakers do this, they're doing it with any thought of keeping Josh past next year. They'd be acquiring his expiring contract. That's it. Delusional Hawks fans are the only ones who think that this would be a one-sided deal in the Lakers' favor. Bingo. And once Josh's athleticism slides, I don't see how he will avoid a brutally quick slide as a player.

Good. The best type of owner is one who tells his GM: "Here's your budget. I'm going to leave now and let you do your thing. I'll check in about, oh, once a month just to make sure you're not being a complete dumba**."

Now there's an image I could have lived without.