Packfill

Credit to Miami's development team and the guys that are able to take advantage of it. Pretty incredible how they have turned fringe guys into rotation pieces.

Does Macey fit in Portland? Portland already has Sharpe and Simmons so they would need to do some other stuff to create space to optimize that deal.

I don’t have a specific target in mind but I think it would be worthwhile for the team to find a veteran locker room guy to do some truth talking. A Vince replacement.

I don't understand why Phoenix would be interested in Harden, if that is what he is suggesting, given they already have Booker and Beal and need forwards and depth. I also don't understand why the Hawks would go after Ayton at this point. Accommodating his salary would require a major roster shuffle.

I am very high on AJ's upside. Given that, I am conflicted on the Bogi extension. Yes, he can be a weapon but I would have thought, given the Hawks depth chart and contracts/financials, he would have been the guy to go. And that goes back to the decision to trade Huerter after acquiring Murray, because I though Huerter's contract lined up with AJ moving to a second contract. So in short term having Bogi is better than Kevin but in long term roster construction I though Huerter made more sense to keep of the two, unless someone was thinking the Hawks were in line for a championship run in 2022-23.

Agreed - though in terms of the contract my view is that at the time the team entered into the contract it was not an overpay, and I think that would have been proven true in a trade scenario if they traded him a year ago. Clearly they sold low given he was coming off of a career worst year and teams were well aware of the Hawks cap situation, so the Hawks' leverage in trade discussions was very low both due to the player and the teams financial situation. EDIT: I should add that I think there is a real chance Collins can improve this season and restore some of his previous trade value. Injuries and playing time and team fit will obviously play heavily into that.

I am likely in the minority but I don’t think Collin’s contract is that bad. $25m for a starting caliber power forward is not out of line with the market, particularly when you are paying for prime years. It is not a bargain but far from an albatross contract. Vucevic’s contract is for less money and years because he is already 30+ and in decline. The reason that contract does not work for the Hawks is the timing of the rebuild and so many players being on, or soon needing, second and third contracts. Team building is a very hard needle to thread.

I generally agree, but still think someone will give him at least $15m a year and losing him for nothing doesn't help fill out the roster (which will be more challenging going forward due to the limited number of picks the team has over the next few years).

The answer to that question, however, is muddied by the draft capital the team gave up to acquire him. I guess doubling down on a bad investment would be worse than cutting ties and taking the hit though. After the Collins deal can the Hawks even resign Bay and OO (forget about Murray for the moment) and stay under the tax? Those two are going to get a combined $40m+ a year I think.

The Thunder are very interesting. They won a surprising number of games last year given the lack of available bigs. Chet is so thin but if he can stay healthy (I know that is a big if) he has undeniable skills which match-up so well with their backcourt guys - his shooting could potentially open things up more inside for SGA and Giddey - plus he can potentially add some much needed rim protection for them. You can definitely see the vision there, plus adding a potentially elite perimeter defender in Wallace also makes sense to add to what is otherwise a huge group of guards. Still way to early to know for sure if things work out for them. Same is true for the Hawks, but the Hawks are a couple years ahead on the development timeline.

Kobe was one of three combo guards I expected the Hawks to target (the other two being Wallace and Hawkins). To me, Kobe splits the difference between those two - not the elite defender that Wallace is or elite shooter that Hawkins is but a decent combination of skills (so no one specific carrying tool, but no obvious hole either). I don't expect Kobe will play much this year outside of injuries and trades (that would be true of almost anyone they could have drafted at that spot, including Whitmore), but we will see. I am going to be very interested in how Whitmore turns out - could be a real missed opportunity. I do think the Hawks could use an athlete of Whitmore's caliber who can bull his way to the hoop.

I am guessing if they wanted Cam they would have just taken him at 15. I certainly would have taken him at 15. Trading CC for him straight up does not work for the Hawks though since it leaves OO as the only viable center/rim protector on the roster. Also, given where Cam is developmentally, that move does not help winning in the near term if that is the Hawks goal.

In fairness, just about anyone they could have taken at 15 is not going to see rotation minutes as a rookie given the current line-up. Not sure I see a starter here even in the long term but he could be a good third guard in a couple years. Still, I for sure would have taken Whitmore there.

Take Whitmore!

I don't think they are desperate for a point guard. Brogden has been a starting point guard, White has some playmaking chops, plus Tatum, Brown and possible Pritchett.

Good list. the top 5 are obviously out of reach if the Hawks stay at 15. Assuming the Hawks stay at 15, the "value" picks seem to all be combo guards. Hard to get excited about any of them in the short term if the Hawks maintain their current roster (we would be talking at best, a 4th guard, but really a 5th if AJ gets minutes at the 2). I like Bufkin, Hawkins and Wallace the best of that group (in no particular order). Assuming no major roster changes, I would be very tempted though if I were Hawks GM to just take a big swing on upside and take one of Whitehead, Clowney or Miller. I would not expect any of those guys to help in the near term though.

I would do that trade if I am the Hawks GM for sure but that is a hard no from the Jazz (and still a hard no from the Jazz even if the Hawks throw in the #15 pick).

That is a good point he makes as far as recent Hawks picks. Thanks for pointing that out. Whiteheard for sure then will be right in their wheelhouse - big time high school prospect, Duke, injured during lone season of college ball!

15 is a sweet spot if you want a combo guard! I don't see any of the combo guard options as early contributors for the Hawks though unless they make some moves (many of them do, however, have 3rd guard upside). This draft seems like a total crap shoot after pick 11.

A few things I will note: 1. The premise of this thread is about winning a championship and what it takes to get there. 2. No one said anything to discredit Trae. It is absolutely fair to question whether a team with Trae as its best player can win a championship. Trae is young enough he can still improve. 3. The Detroit title teams are the outlier in history. Pretty much every other champion since the Showtime Lakers has had an MVP level performer. 4. I never said having an MVP level performer guarantees even a shot at a title, just that the last 30 years of NBA history shows it is a requirement to get one. Not every MVP gets a title. 5. No one said it is easy finding the right supporting cast. What I did say it is it easier to find a supporting cast than an MVP. There are so many fewer MVP caliber players! 6. Absolutely NO ONE questions that Jordan needed Pippen; Magic needed Worthy; Bird needed McHale; LeBron needed Wade/Kyrie/AD; Hakeem needed Clyde; Duncan needed the Admiral; Shaq needed Kobe; Steph need Klay; etc.

No question the supporting cast is the second most important element to winning a championship. It is just that the first and most important element is the MVP. Jokic won a MVP without Jamal Murray and MPJ. Can Trae? Hopefully, be he needs to raise his game in a way that directly results in more wins for the team. He can average 30 and 12 but if the team is 41-41 it won't matter.

No one disputes the importance of a good supporting cast. It is just that it is easier to get a good supporting cast than it is to get an MVP, particularly one in their prime. Embiid is an MVP level player but he has not gotten a championship because his supporting cast has not been good enough. Jokic won an MVP with an underwhelming supporting cast (due to injuries to Murray and MPJ) and the playoff results evidence that lack of support. If everyone thinks Trae is our MVP (I honestly do not think he has played at an MVP level to date) then where are they getting their Jamal Murray?

Hard to say. Denver’s chances go down for sure but they have a better shot after that trade than the Hawks do because they have an MVP. it is a pointless issue though because the key point is NBA history shows us that the baseline for an NBA championship is an MVP level performer. Denver has that and the Hawks do not. And to be clear having an MVP level player does not guarantee you will get a championship just that it is a requirement to get there. The history of NBA champions is a gut punch to fans of teams that lack that caliber of player.

Playoff Jamal Murray is incredible. Regular season Jamal Murray is good. Dejounte can provide regular season Jamal Murray production but no evidence yet he can do what Jamal does in the playoffs.

No unless Trae levels up. That is not a slight on Trae just fact. Jokic is currently the best player in the world. Remember Jokic won an MVP last year with no Murray and MPJ playing only 9 games.