Interesting lack of comment...

[mudderfudder77]

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If you want to stick with your statistics... Do this.

Go to NBA.com... Take those games in March when Al played with on again off again tendenitis and get ppg, apg, rpg, FG%. I dare you to compare it with others playing PF.

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Okay, I did.

Harrington was 13th in scoring among Forwards only, 30th overall.

Among Forwards who had higher ppg averages 7 had higher FG%'s

Among Forwards who had higher ppg averages all 12 had higher 3 pt fg averages

Among Forwards who had higher ppg averages all 12 had higher FT percentages

Tried to get the rest of the info you were asking about, but the NBA.com stats page is all f$*%ed up right now.

[exodus]

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Go to NBA.com... Take those games in March when Al played with on again off again tendenitis and get ppg, apg, rpg, FG%. I dare you to compare it with others playing PF.

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You have to go to ESPN.com to get last year's splits, FYI.

Last March Al averaged 19 pts on 16.9 attempts, 6 rebounds,

.29 blocks, 46%, 3.6 assists and 3.4 TOs.

Yawn.

The only stat that Al is ranked highly in for the 2004-05 season is turnovers.

[exodus]

NBA.com's efficiency ratings from last year. This is the top 50:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/default_regu...rsEFFQuery.html

I don't see Al's name but I do see Alston and Lafrentz.

[Diesel]

or at the least, a top 12 PF.

That's not bad.

It's no All-star but we're not paying him allstar Money.

Yes Exodus, now Money comes into the picture.

Al is probably the cheapest starting Sf/Pf (who is not on his first contract) in the league. But Exodus wants to judge him by Duncan and KG status...

Like I said... laughable.

[Nicholasp27]

money is EVERYTHING when it comes to keeping al or not

if he wants 8-9+, then trade him

if he'll take 6-7, then keep him

[exodus]

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But Exodus wants to judge him by Duncan and KG status...

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WTF? What I want to see is Al actually raise his hands over his head one time when someone is making a layup right in his face.

His complete lack of D wouldn't be a problem if he was an offensive force but he isn't.

The only way he would be useful is if he became a player off the bench and was signed for what he is worth, which is no more than the MLE.

[Diesel]

You know those stats are from 2003-2004 right?

I looked on pp48 and old Stephen Jackson popped up as a Hawk...

I wouldn't expect Al to be on that List being that he was the 6th man and all..

[mrhonline]

No offense to all, but there's no sense in arguing about Harrington's offensive production. He's an above average, low post scorer. He has decent range for a PF, but no great for a SF.

What is worth arguing is whether he will improve his two major weaknesses:

1. His inconsistency

2. His lack of defense inside

At least one of those things will have to improve before he is re-signed, and even then it's debatable. I still wouldn't mind keeping him as a 6th man, but I'm pretty sure teams like Chicago and New York (the threat of a S&T) will push his value beyond that.

[Diesel]

If that happens so be it... however, I really doubt that NY or Chicago can push his value. For One, even though NY will clear a lot of cap space, they will still be over/at the cap.

Chicago has a littney of Pfs/Sfs... Why would they want anything other than a Center?

I think re-signing AL will be easy for us and more importantly, he will be a great piece for us to have!

[exodus]

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You know those stats are from 2003-2004 right?

I looked on pp48 and old Stephen Jackson popped up as a Hawk...

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You got me there. Here is the correct link:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/2004/default...topic=0&stat=27

[mrhonline]

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If that happens so be it... however, I really doubt that NY or Chicago can push his value. For One, even though NY will clear a lot of cap space, they will still be over/at the cap.

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They can promise to do a S&T and pay a ton more than other teams are offering. (See: Curry, Eddy and Crawford, Jamal). The good news is that they've run out of draft picks...

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Chicago has a littney of Pfs/Sfs... Why would they want anything other than a Center?

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Darius is leaving at the end of the year, so their frontcourt will basically be Sweetney + Chandler. Neither of those guys, or anyone else on the roster, can really score consistently in the post. Chandler is the perfect compliment to Al's game.

I just think expecting to get him cheaply is naive. I'm not opposed to him returning, but it depends on improvements to his game, his health, and the price. Otherwise, I would rather S&T him for a defensive big to complement Marvin and Zaza.

[mudderfudder77]

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Darius is leaving at the end of the year, so their frontcourt will basically be Sweetney + Chandler. Neither of those guys, or anyone else on the roster, can really score consistently in the post. Chandler is the perfect compliment to Al's game.

I just think expecting to get him cheaply is naive. I'm not opposed to him returning, but it depends on improvements to his game, his health, and the price. Otherwise, I would rather S&T him for a defensive big to complement Marvin and Zaza.

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Darius Songalia? They just signed him to a two year contract. The Bulls currently have Luol Deng & Andres Nocioni at SF - neither of whom are going anywhere anytime soon.

The only positions the Bulls will be spending their off-season money on are either a big guard, or a center/PF. Harrington is neither, and he wouldn't make it off of the bench playing for Skiles. Just like Tim Thomas is riding pine now, Harringtons atrocious defense would earn him a permanent spot as the 12th man.

With the continued Development of Kirk Hinrich, Ben Gordon, & Luol Deng, and the addition of Mike Sweetney whos proven to be more than effective in the post, the Bulls will be looking to add another defensive big man.

The only scorer I could see the Bulls throwing their money at would be Peja.

[Diesel]

If we start winning, I expect to get him at a reasonable cost. If we continue to lose, I agree, he will take less money to be somewhere else. However, I don't see anybody going over what would be reasonable for us.

That's the way it always works...

If nothing else, we force a SNT... But we don't trade him for another useless pick... We're past that!

[NickJYD]

Diesel, I'm not really talking to you. I'm talking to all the people that are bashing Joe both here and in the media for apparently "failing" as a pg. Anyone that is watching the games knows that he is still basically playing pg. He is dominating the ball on offense and creating for his teammates. He had 12 dimes and 3 assists on Saturday night, and despite the fact that he shot poorly, he found a way to make everyone better. Tell me ONE TIME that a guy like Al Harrington has done that. He never has. Harrington is a black hole in the post. He takes shots going up against 7 footers that he has no chance of making, while people like Salim are standing wide open on the perimeter. As for Josh Childress, he showed signs last year, but he has ZERO confidence in his game right now and thus has been awful. He and Harrington deserve the bashing on this board, not Joe. Joe is doing EVERYTHING for us. Hes our best scorer, passer, defender and furthermore is the most complete player that the Hawks have had in the last 20 years and possibly longer. Its amazing that we sit around here and debate whether Joe is a PG when its VERY CLEAR that what he really needs is some frickin help scoring the ball. So, of course we all think harrington, but Harrington has been dreadful, and personally I dont respect the guy for playing hurt if hes going to play the way he has in the last two games. We are a better basketball team with Josh Smith or Marvin in his spot. At least those guys take good shots, pass the ball and actually try to play defense. I am so irritated at the media and these online discussions talking about Joe failing at pg. He's still playing pg and Joe has been failed by his teammates. Period. Its that simple.

[NickJYD]

Us drafting Ivey over Duhon was moronic at best. Us drafting Donta Smith over Duhon was also stupid. However, I was friendly with Jitim Young at Northwestern and he told me Duhon was awful in every workout they were at together.

[mudderfudder77]

Interesting, I hadn't heard that. He didn't fall much further than expected though - I guess people didn't expect too much to begin with.

[tmac13]

I don't think anyone here is bashing JJ if they say he is a better 2 than he is a 1..You keep talking about his 12 assist game, but I notice there is no mention of his 1 assist game..JJ is a very nice player that brings a little of everything to the table, however, he is not a point guard in the traditional sense..He is a very good passing and dribbling 2..We have a team full of fast athletic players and I have yet to see ANY of our point guards run a fast break..We don't have a real point guard on this team.

[pathway23]

that we don't get much on the fast break isn't the fact that we don't have a PG, it is because we aren't getting enough stops on defense. To start a fast break you need a defensive stop and a rebound. We rarely get defensive stops and rebounds, we give up a lot of offensive rebounds, and guys are helping out in the paint to get defensive rebounds rather than getting down to the other end of the floor.