Onyeka Okongwu

[theheroatl]

Should be starting from now on... 

The game log proves he can fill stats and make an impact beyond what Clint does if he gets starter minutes (30+ per game).

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/4431680/onyeka-okongwu

I love having Trae, Jalen, and Onyeka as starters.. he needed this confidence and we would probably be in a better spot at this point.

TBH, this was a big mistake by Quin and company. Not sure if it had to do with Fields/Korver but OO was ready to get starter minutes from the get-go this year.

Onyeka may not be a crazy stationary big or a outrageous roll guy but his 3 point shooting will develop like Al Horford and Brook Lopez, starting centers of the top teams in the east.

 

One thing that doesn't get talked enough is both are good defensive rebounders... BUT THERE IS A MAJOR PROBLEM... CLINT FUMBLES THE PUTBACKS TOO MUCH.. Watch the games and you'll see this!

 

Edited February 10 by theheroatl

[theheroatl]

Also.. notice the lineups this year: https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?TeamID=1610612737&dir=D&slug=advanced&sort=MIN

 

LINEUPS	TEAM	GP	MIN	OFFRTG	DEFRTG	NETRTG
C. Capela - D. Murray - T. Young - S. Bey - J. Johnson	ATL	20	276	109.2	120.7	-11.5
C. Capela - D. Murray - T. Young - D. Hunter - S. Bey	ATL	16	177	118.4	115.5	2.9
C. Capela - D. Murray - T. Young - D. Hunter - J. Johnson	ATL	14	172	113	119	-6.1
B. Bogdanovic - T. Young - O. Okongwu - S. Bey - J. Johnson	ATL	19	136	123	109.3	13.7
B. Bogdanovic - T. Young - G. Mathews - O. Okongwu - J. Johnson	ATL	12	83	108.6	103.2	5.4
B. Bogdanovic - D. Murray - D. Hunter - O. Okongwu - S. Bey	ATL	17	71	131.6	121.6	10
C. Capela - B. Bogdanovic - D. Murray - S. Bey - J. Johnson	ATL	13	71	111.3	123.7	-12.4
D. Murray - T. Young - O. Okongwu - S. Bey - J. Johnson	ATL	12	69	127.6	118.2	9.4
C. Capela - B. Bogdanovic - D. Murray - T. Young - S. Bey	ATL	14	64	120	113	7
W. Matthews - B. Bogdanovic - T. Young - O. Okongwu - S. Bey	ATL	13	63	121.2	113.3	7.9
B. Bogdanovic - T. Young - G. Mathews - O. Okongwu - S. Bey	ATL	10	61	131.5	106.9	24.7
C. Capela - B. Bogdanovic - D. Murray - D. Hunter - S. Bey	ATL	15	51	113.3	122.4	-9.2
C. Capela - B. Bogdanovic - D. Murray - D. Hunter - J. Johnson	ATL	15	46	106.9	113.1	-6.2
D. Murray - T. Young - D. Hunter - O. Okongwu - S. Bey	ATL	10	38	95.7	140.2	-44.6
C. Capela - D. Murray - T. Young - G. Mathews - S. Bey	ATL	4	36	115.1	130.1	-15.1
B. Bogdanovic - D. Murray - O. Okongwu - S. Bey - T. Forrest	ATL	8	34	115.1	129.4	-14.3
B. Bogdanovic - D. Murray - O. Okongwu - S. Bey - J. Johnson	ATL	17	33	126.9	98.7	28.2
C. Capela - B. Bogdanovic - D. Murray - O. Okongwu - S. Bey	ATL	6	29	128.1	93.8	34.4
C. Capela - B. Bogdanovic - T. Young - S. Bey - J. Johnson	ATL	2	28	124.6	98.3	26.3
B. Bogdanovic - D. Murray - T. Young - O. Okongwu - J. Johnson	ATL	8	27	123.1	103	20
B. Bogdanovic - D. Murray - T. Young - O. Okongwu - S. Bey	ATL	14	23	117.5	131.5	-13.9
B. Fernando - T. Young - D. Hunter - G. Mathews - J. Johnson	ATL	2	23	126	134	-8
B. Bogdanovic - T. Young - D. Hunter - O. Okongwu - S. Bey	ATL	8	22	123.9	110.2	13.7
C. Capela - B. Bogdanovic - D. Murray - S. Bey - T. Forrest	ATL	8	22	110.9	120.4	-9.5
C. Capela - D. Murray - T. Young - O. Okongwu - S. Bey	ATL	3	22	115.2	93.3	21.9

 

Tell me what the obvious answer is... ONYEKA IN THE STARTING LINEUP GETTING MOST MINUTES

Our most played lineup.. the one where Hunter has been out... IS A BAD NEGATIVE!

If Quin goes back to Capela in the starting lineup, this is an egregious offense.

Edited February 10 by theheroatl

[JayBirdHawk]

I have been hoping for OO to grab the starting spot for the last two years. If not that. I wanted him playing more minutes than CC and/or also finishing games. He's averaging 25.5 mpg, CC is at 25.7 mpg. He needs 30+ mpg.

It's time. He won't be on his rookie contract next season, we need to see what we have in him as the starter and also paired with JJ for the rest of the season.

We have 30 games to figure that out. 

[dalamchops]

capela is a far better rebound than OO.  OO is often out of position and get pushed around too easily. With that said i do think OO should start over CC, just hope OO can learn to rebound like a madman

[theheroatl]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I have been hoping for OO to grab the starting spot for two years. If not that. I wanted him playing mote minutes than CC and/or also finishing games.

It's time. He won't be on his rookie contract next season, we need to see what we have in him as the starter and also paired with JJ.

We have 30 games to figure that out. 

Yeah but also it's been proven that he should start via statistics.. I'm stating that it is so obvious the only excuse to start Capela over him is political.

 

That could be the same reason the kids aren't playing. That is ridiculous too.

1 minute ago, dalamchops said:

capela is a far better rebound than OO.  OO is often out of position and get pushed around too easily. With that said i do think OO should start over CC, just hope OO can learn to rebound like a madman

Team rebounding is more important than individuals. Also, the lineup +/- tells a better story than individual aspects of the game.

Edited February 10 by theheroatl

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, dalamchops said:

capela is a far better rebound than OO.  OO is often out of position and get pushed around too easily. With that said i do think OO should start over CC, just hope OO can learn to rebound like a madman

Capela is a marginally better DEFENSIVE rebounder than OO: 5.8 rpg vs 4.2 rpg on the season.

CC's overall rebounding numbers (10.6 rpg)  are buoyed by his OFFENSIVE rebounding at 4.8 rpg, which is also buoyed  from his missed bunnies and tips.

[theheroatl]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

his missed bunnies and tips.

This is one of my major points... This is becoming a major issue with Capela getting big minutes. He should have learned to kick the ball out. He doesn't have the hops anymore to get the ball in correctly except using a hook.

[RedDawg#8]

I’m interested to know if it wasn’t for CC rebounding his own misses just how big that rebounding gap is. He gets no less than (2) free rebounds a game by blowing bunnies at the rim.

Side note. I agree with everyone regarding lineups. Forget contracts, experience, and whatever X player is SUPPOSED to bring to the table based on reputation.

OO + JJ is an elite and effective basketball pairing dating back to last season.

CC is the backup center that every contender wants/needs. That is his role to finish his career. The Drummonds, Howards, McGees of the world all agree.

Dre since returning is EXPLOSIVE off of the bench. Let him feature in that role. Take draft position and contract away and just look at him on THIS roster. He is our best PF option after JJ. He is too small to play it full time but against backups he can eat against a lot of reserve frontcourt matchups. He has never had great splits with our better lineups, which is more likely due to him being the 5th option on those units than him lacking ability. Someone has to sacrifice and it may be him. He could be an X factor of the bench. It may also help preserve his long term health.

Capela and Dre could still play starters minutes based on matchups and production, but at least for now we need to try getting the most minutes out of our best lineups, not just our best 5 players if that makes sense.

20 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Capela is a marginally better DEFENSIVE rebounder than OO: 5.8 rpg vs 4.2 rpg on the season.

CC's overall rebounding numbers (10.6 rpg)  are buoyed by his OFFENSIVE rebounding at 4.8 rpg, which is also buoyed  from his missed bunnies and tips.

Beat me again 

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Beat me again 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[theheroatl]

7 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

The more mpg he plays -> the more confidence he gets -> the better he gets -> elite

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, theheroatl said:

One thing that doesn't get talked enough is both are good defensive rebounders... BUT THERE IS A MAJOR PROBLEM... CLINT FUMBLES THE PUTBACKS TOO MUCH.. Watch the games and you'll see this!

Some parts of this statement are not true.

OO is not a good rebounder.  Or at least not one you can put in the same sentence with Clint. 

 

These are while playing roughly the same amount of minutes. 

A lot is made of the bunnies that Clint misses.  I don't think it means that much.   What does mean something is the almost 4 rebounds that Clint gets more than OO.   However, I don't care if OO starts.   Just more time for Clint to beat up on the other team's reserves. 

 

[dalamchops]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Capela is a marginally better DEFENSIVE rebounder than OO: 5.8 rpg vs 4.2 rpg on the season.

CC's overall rebounding numbers (10.6 rpg)  are buoyed by his OFFENSIVE rebounding at 4.8 rpg, which is also buoyed  from his missed bunnies and tips.

CC is far ahead in all reb% categories, even in the eye test CC is elite at boxing out.

[dalamchops]

3 hours ago, theheroatl said:

Yeah but also it's been proven that he should start via statistics.. I'm stating that it is so obvious the only excuse to start Capela over him is political.

 

That could be the same reason the kids aren't playing. That is ridiculous too.

Team rebounding is more important than individuals. Also, the lineup +/- tells a better story than individual aspects of the game.

not disagreeing that OO should start over CC. I am just saying if there's one thing CC is better that, it's rebounding by far.

[hawkman]

OO in the month of February looks like the second best center in the East. Small sample size but 19pts, 9rbs, and 2 blocks on spectacular efficiency can't be dismissed:

[theheroatl]

28 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Some parts of this statement are not true.

OO is not a good rebounder.  Or at least not one you can put in the same sentence with Clint. 

 

These are while playing roughly the same amount of minutes. 

A lot is made of the bunnies that Clint misses.  I don't think it means that much.   What does mean something is the almost 4 rebounds that Clint gets more than OO.   However, I don't care if OO starts.   Just more time for Clint to beat up on the other team's reserves. 

 

Is this PER 36? Clint gets more rebounds but that doesn’t matter if he just blows the putbacks

10 minutes ago, dalamchops said:

not disagreeing that OO should start over CC. I am just saying if there's one thing CC is better that, it's rebounding by far.

The point of my posts are Clint wastes at least 3-4 rebounds by blowing the putbacks 

 

clint can still collect but that’s about it

you guys aren’t understanding that the # of rebounds purely means nothing anymore.. 

The same reason Drummond got benched years ago

Edited February 10 by theheroatl

[JayBirdHawk]

Saw this awhile back:

Quote

Clint Capela is without a doubt the NBA's best offensive rebounder, leading the league in total OREBs (207) by 53 and OREBs/g (4.7), a full 1.1 offensive boards a game more than 2nd place. But how valuable is this rebounding? The Hawks lead the NBA in putback points/g: 9.4...despite shooting 4% below league average on these attempts at just 53% (23rd) That inefficiency has the Hawks ranked 18th (1.10) in PPP on putbacks, far below the other elite offensive rebounding teams averaging at least 8ppg on putbacks, such as the Jazz (1.16), Blazers (1.17), Sixers (1.15) & Magic (1.17). There are 41 players that have at least 50 offensive rebound possessions this season in Synergy's database. Capela is 30th in PPP (1.091) and 33rd in FG% (51.9%), 7.2% BELOW the average FG% (59.1%) for the league's best offensive rebounders. Those are brutal percentages on what are typically high-quality looks around the basket. Now to be fair, Clint does tap the ball a ton which contributes to these misses but... When Onyeka Okongwu is also on this list and is shooting 60% thanks to his superior touch and Saddiq Bey is ALSO on this list and is averaging a higher 1.127 PPP, Clint's inability to convert offensive rebounds into points becomes that much more concerning. Offensive rebounds are inherently valuable because the more possessions typically equals more opportunities to score the ball which typically equals more points. Capela's subpar PPP on OREBs (1.091), is still better than an average Hawks halfcourt possession (.987). His gravity as a rebounder (elite positioning, demanding boxouts) often clears a path for guys like Saddiq. We saw a perfect example of this in Saddiq's gamewinner last night vs the Raptors. However, Capela turning 20-30% of these shots into kickouts to reset the offense (allowing them to attack a scrambled defense) instead of forcing up shots he doesn't necessarily have the touch for, would do wonders for the Hawks overall offensive efficiency and execution.

Moral of the story: Capela’s still an elite rebounder, but he needs to realize he’s not the same caliber finisher he once was. If he isn’t in position to go up strong for a dunk, he needs to look for a kickout.

 

[Gray Mule]

What has impressed me about the center position since Capela has been out?  The play of 0017?  Nope.  As good as he has been I'm a lot more excited about the play of Bruno Fernando!  When our #2 and #3 centers moved up a notch, have we really missed Capela?  I believe not.  

[AHF]

We need to start OO and see how he handles opposing starting centers on the regular for the remainder of the season.  I’m not convinced he will hold up but that was certainly my hope coming into the season.  We need to get better clarity on who he is and what he can handle and keeping him in the reserve role he has had career to date isn’t going to do it.

(Also need to give Kobe and AJ minutes).

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

We need to start OO and see how he handles opposing starting centers on the regular for the remainder of the season.  I’m not convinced he will hold up but that was certainly my hope coming into the season.  We need to get better clarity on who he is and what he can handle and keeping him in the reserve role he has had career to date isn’t going to do it.

(Also need to give Kobe and AJ minutes).

He's much better as a starter due to JJ and his fit is a lot better than Capela and JJ.