Next year's backcourt

[Diesel]

Yeah, the guy who is dropping 10.2 apg... Defense doesn't win games... That's bad logic. Offense wins games. You can have the best defense in the world.. however, if you team can't score, you will finish with Zero points. Didn't you learn anything from the Deke/Mookie years? At best, a defense can hold a team for a short term... However, a team that can't score, can't win.

[mrhonline]

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Defense doesn't win games... That's bad logic. Offense wins games.

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I always figured that was your M.O.

Now I understand why you're wrong 98% of the time. Good to know.

[Nicholasp27]

he asked who made an impact so i answered

i never said that there was a howard/okafor/big ben in this draft

[Diesel]

Yeah, we missed them too...

The point is that they are NOT in the upcoming draft. Nor is there anybody their calibre. However, there are some pretty good Pgs..

BTW..

Hi. My name is Ty Lue. I am a career BU. A self proclaimed best BU in the league. Yet, on the Hawks team, I'm the starter. I can't run the offense effectively, but I'm the best thing that we have. I think we ought to get another Big man in the draft... Wait 4 yrs. Watch JJ and Al and Smoove Leave... But every year we can continue our 6'9" love affair in the draft.

[Diesel]

If Defense won games, the Pistons would be the champions...

If Defense won games, the Suns wouldn't have had the best record in the West.

Offense trumps defense.

NOBODY goes into the draft looking for the best defensive player? IF so, Dwight Howard would have been drafted after Okafor... Defense is secondary to offense. Get a great offensive player and an equally great defensive player and the offensive player would be picked every time.... I don't see many people trying to get Bruce Bowen or any of these other defensive specialist ahead of a player with offensive potential.

[mrhonline]

1. If all you want is someone to run the offense, then those guys can be had in a trade. In fact, there are dozens of those guys in the league, most of them backups.

2. Year after year people overrated PG's because they look flashy in the NCAA's.

3. If Knight passed on the PG crop this year, what makes you think he'll draft one next year?

The only reason people are throwing out these guys' names is because they saw them on DraftExpress. You should go back and look at their list from last November. It looks nothing like what actually happened in the draft.

It's WAY too early to evaluate the depth of next year's draft.

[mrhonline]

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If Defense won games, the Pistons would be the champions...

If Defense won games, the Suns wouldn't have had the best record in the West.

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Funny stuff. Tell me, Diesel, how good of a defensive team was the one that beat the Pistons?

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NOBODY goes into the draft looking for the best defensive player?

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Now that's poor logic.

Nobody goes into the draft looking for a one-sided player. Why do you assume the player the Hawks take will be one-dimensional?

[exodus]

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i never said that there was a howard/okafor/big ben in this draft

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Fair enough. In a case where you are choosing between a small man and a big man of equal ability you take the big man every time. No argument there.

I just don't see any high quality bigs. The best big man coming out might be Sheldon Williams, who I really like but I think Rondo or Gibson would have a bigger impact on the Hawks.

Right now the Hawks are getting outscored by 6 points per game on the break, but their rebounding is even with their opponents. So where does the problem lie?

[Diesel]

Do a team with needs pick a defensive player or an offensive player with their first pick...

Dwight Howard was an unproven HSer with little to talk about in the area of defense but loads of offense and potential.

Okafor was a defensive player of the year with questions about his offense.

Orlando took Howard...

About your question on Who beat the Pistons...

For the playoffs:

Stats

The Spurs were the 4th best defensive team behind Detroit, Miami, and Boston.

However, the Spurs were a better offensive team than Detroit...

It wasn't great defense that beat the Pistons.

It was Robert Horry stepping behind the three point line hitting the big three that beat the Pistons.

and that my friend is the BOTTOM LINE!!

[Diesel]

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If Knight passed on the PG crop this year, what makes you think he'll draft one next year?

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Let's hope he learns from his mistakes...

I mean, do you think Knight is always right? Hell, Both Paul and Deron are top 5 rookies, Marvin is #9. Hell.. IS JJ a PG Yet?? Hell is JC a SG yet??

If BK can't learn from his mistakes, he should be fired.

[mrhonline]

1. Howard is a good defensive player with DPOY potential. Orlando took him because of potential. Again, why the assumption that top draftees are either good offensive players or good defensive players?

2. No one is saying Lue/Salim/JJ is an all-world backcourt. What I'm saying is the Zaza/Nobody is much worse than the backcourt issues.

3. You seem to be the only one around here who still thinks Marvin was a bad pick. How long before you admit you know less than you think you do?

4. So, if Detroit is a great defensive team, which we both can agree they are, and they were only ONE SHOT from winning the championship, then maybe defensive teams can win, huh? (Remind me who won the year before last again?).

[Diesel]

Here's where we can agree.

Defense is better than dysfunction.

However, just because Detroit is a great defensive team, it doesn't mean that they don't play offense.

They are the best team in the league in Points per shot attempt. That means that they are the most efficient scorers in the league for the last 2 yrs. BUT, the Spurs are a better offensive team. That wins.

If you have the best defensive team in the world and the worst offensive team in the world, you will lose... Because eventually every defense gives up points. The win is not given to the team that stops the other team the most, it's given to the team that has the most points in the end.

I see you still fail to address Phoenix being statistically the worst defensive team in the league but they finished with the best record in the league??

Offense wins!

[Diesel]

I've been pretty consistent in saying that I'm withholding judgement on Marvin until game 20.

However, when he is judged, I won't judge him on how he played in a 3 minute spurt vs. the Grizzlies like most of you have. I will judge him in comparison to Deron and Paul.

Right now... Even though it's early... Deron has been given the Utah offense and Paul is doing well. It's interesting that a guy like Charlie V. is pulling down 26 ppg, 13 rpg nightly?

What's Marvin doing again?

[mrhonline]

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I will judge him in comparison to Deron and Paul.

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That makes a lot of sense, especially since the Hawks were expecting Marvin to make such a huge contribution this year.

/sarcasm

You, and many others, routinely fail to understand exactly how bad this team was last year. They were one of the worst teams in the history of the NBA. They HAD to draft based on potential mroe than just about any team in the recent history of the draft.

Adding Paul or Deron would have been nice, and I agree that they will be solid PG's in the NBA, but it wouldn't have made this team a playoff team.

[mudderfudder77]

Someone tell me the last team to win a Championship that didn't have a top notch defense. In the last 15 years:

San Antonio?

Detroit?

LA?

Chicago?

Houston?

Detroit?

Anyone noticing a trend? Yes they all had good offensive teams (except maybe Houston), but I don't see the Pheonix Suns on that list. Offense will get you to the playoffs, but if you don't have a stout defense - you're not winning in the second season.

Re: Detroit vs. San Antonio

Detroits problem was that they ran into a defense that was just about as good as their's but had a slightly better offense.

If it comes down to Offense vs. Defense - the team with defense is going to win out. The Bulls are an example of that, last year they were a team that had no business being .500, but their relentless D kept them in every game.

[Diesel]

Please stop being the BK bootlicker.

Reguardless of how bad we were, a GM has to look at the team and it's need and fill it. Picking Marvin, BK said, I don't trust JSmoove to develop, I don't think Al will develop, and I think this guy is better than both Deron and Paul. That's the bottomline Mr. Hi. That's it. So when I judge MW, it will not be on what his future may or may not hold... It will be on what has he done vs. what has Paul, Deron, and Smoove done...

To say that we shouldn't look at it that way is bad logic...

as far as records, we were only 5 games worst than N.O. and Charlotte. 13 games worst than Utah. Look at those guys now...

[jpierrek]

draft a pg.....c out of facy....be done with it.....

[Diesel]

The Lakers and the Rockets (in recent times) didn't have top notch defenses.

Not to mention going back to the Showtime Lakers, 76ers, Sonics, Wizards, Celtics, and Bucks.

Historically, the Pistons, Bulls, and Spurs have ushered in defense as the catalyst to a championship. But honestly, these teams were really teams had good offenses that could produce. The Bulls without MJ's clutch scoring would not have won anything. The Pistons as I said before had the best Points per shot attempt average of all the teams playing in the last 2 yrs. That means that they were very effecient at scoring. The previous pistons (bad Boys) had all kinds of offensive weaponary from Gentleman Joe, Zeke to Lambeer from outside and Vinny the microwave. Finally the Spurs. The Spurs won games with the most unstoppable PF on the planet.

Notice, my statement. Defense doesn't win games & DEFENSE IS SECONDARY to OFFENSE

What that means is that teams only persue defense after they get strong offensive pieces.

It's in the rebuilding blueprint of all teams. Get the offense then fill in with defense. Most of the time, teams believe that they can get strong offensive players and then play strong TEAM defense... Notice the focus.. Strong offense followed by defense... Defense being Secondary to offense.

Even here on Hawksquawk... Don't be hypocritical..

Many of you would much rather us play Salim Stoudamire at PG (even though he's not a PG) than to see us play and develop Royal Ivey... Why is that??

I think My point is made here Mudderfudder.

[mudderfudder77]

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The Lakers and the Rockets (in recent times) didn't have top notch defenses.

Not to mention going back to the Showtime Lakers, 76ers, Sonics, Wizards, Celtics, and Bucks.

Historically, the Pistons, Bulls, and Spurs have ushered in defense as the catalyst to a championship. But honestly, these teams were really teams had good offenses that could produce. The Bulls without MJ's clutch scoring would not have won anything. The Pistons as I said before had the best Points per shot attempt average of all the teams playing in the last 2 yrs. That means that they were very effecient at scoring. The previous pistons (bad Boys) had all kinds of offensive weaponary from Gentleman Joe, Zeke to Lambeer from outside and Vinny the microwave. Finally the Spurs. The Spurs won games with the most unstoppable PF on the planet.

Notice, my statement. Defense doesn't win games

& DEFENSE IS SECONDARY to OFFENSE

What that means is that teams only persue defense after they get strong offensive pieces.

It's in the rebuilding blueprint of all teams. Get the offense then fill in with defense. Most of the time, teams believe that they can get strong offensive players and then play strong TEAM defense... Notice the focus.. Strong offense followed by defense... Defense being Secondary to offense.

Even here on Hawksquawk... Don't be hypocritical..

Many of you would much rather us play Salim Stoudamire at PG (even though he's not a PG) than to see us play and develop Royal Ivey... Why is that??

I think My point is made here Mudderfudder.

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Unfortunately for you, not with me. The game has changed in the last 15 years, ever since the Bad Boys of Detroit started winning their championships. And we'll just have to disagree on the role defense has played in winning championships since that time. I think Dallas and Pheonix have both proven that having a fun explosive offense will win in the regular season, but when the playoffs start those teams lack of defense will get exposed.

And for the record I think starting Salim and JJ in the backcourt is an absolute disaster.

[VDiLetto]

Good defense comes as a team, not as much individuals. However, you have to have guys with the ability to make plays (block shots, etc) We have guys with that ability, we justhave to figure out a way to make them a team. We don't have a team right now, we have a lot of lost individuals. Woodson has this season to show me something before I join the club "Off with Woodson's head".