What is that Boston Echo?

[Wretch]

You cannot teach a player to play this game without experience. It just can't be done. In order to develop talent, they have to be on the floor getting experience. They go hand in hand. Experience...is the biggest part of developing a player or a team. There is no way to divide that with semantics.

These guys are all talented, yes; but everyone in the NBA is talented. What they are not is developed...or complete. They are not developed as a team because they have only been a "team" for a little over a dozen games and they are not developed as players because they haven't been playing in the NBA long enough - they are not experienced.

It'll take more than JJ learning to be a full time point in the NBA, and alternating at SG, to harness our talent. It will take experience, coaching, and probably personnel moves to develop this team into a winner.

[Final_quest]

Quote:

---

These guys are all talented, yes; they are not experienced.

It'll take more than JJ learning to be a full time point in the NBA, and alternating at SG, to harness our talent. It will take experience, coaching, and probably personnel moves to develop this team into a winner.

---

So basically the talent is developed, but they need experience.

I'm just busting your balls, no offense. I'm somewhat of a smart ass.

[Wretch]

LoL whatever man...I know what you're saying.

But, no I never said they weren't talented. They are. They are all talented in the way that every NBA player is talented. I don't know how many times I have to say this, but you just don't get to the pro level without talent. So saying anyone is talented really means nothing.

However, nobody on this team, save for maybe Lue, has developed into the player that they will be 5 - 10 years from now. ZaZa, JJ, and Al are close, but they're still young and they are still looking for their place to "fit." Everyone else, these rookies and 2nd year players, needs experience to develop.

What's more, this team has not developed it's identity. We're still developing. We're still growing. We have a talented foundation, but that's it.

[BornandDieHawks]

Where is all this failed experiment stuff coming from? No one said JJ was a failure on the team at least not in my post. If that what you got out the post please ask for clarification. JJ move to pg on the team is an on-going experiment to see if he can handle the position full time. BK and Woody has said that's the position they would like him to play but they have to evaluate and see if another rotation would best suit the team. Everyone knows he has talent and can play the 2 or 3. That's why we went out along with other teams to try and get him. I understand why BK and Woody wanted him to play the point. Along with his size at the position, he did spell Nash at times in Phoenix. In no post do you see where I suggest we trade this guy. I am a big JJ supporter. I just made an evaluation in which I feel he is out of position. I would love for JJ to prove me and a lot of other people wrong and become an outstanding pg.

[BornandDieHawks]

I don't question a players talent became like you said they all have talent. What I mean is the talent is there but I do question the basket IQ which would come with experience. I listen to a Diaw interview with a grain of salt because you know he going to say the right things. He was going through the difference of being on a team winning oppose to a losing one. He did not bad mouth the Hawks, but he did point out some things such as the mentality, players worrying about Stats, and how plays that are developed in Phoenix are actually excuted. I did not pay much attention to it until AL stated some of same things. So I beleive it has more to do with the experience rather than talent.

[Wretch]

You didn't say this whole thing with JJ was a failure? My friend, that is exactly what you opened this thread with:

Quote:

---

Belkin screaming, "I told you so."

I like the rest of you jump for joy when Belkin lost his place with the organization and the trade went through. Right now we have a good player, with a MAX contract, playing out of position, not leading the team as expected.

We trading away a guy who is producing and the only difference is he playing another position.

Rebuilding took a hit because we gave up two number 1's and limited ourselves to get a veteran in because of the trade exemption we gave up.

Nevermind, I'm still pissed about the game last night.

---

Belkin saying what? I told you so...to what? Belkin was saying that we were making a bad deal. You are saying he was right.

You are saying that initially, you were excited about this deal...but since have come to realize that we've given up to much. Why?

Because JJ has not lived up to expectations. He was supposed to lead us.

You are saying that JJ is playing out of position, in otherwords, he is a failure at PG. No?

We gave up two 1st round draft choices, and a good player, and a max contract...for a failed experiement - something that isn't producing the results we expected.

Right?

Don't change your arguement mid-stride. It's what you've been saying from the jump. The problem is, this is a work in progress and we won't really know the worth of JJ until we put a decent team around him. Right now, the majority of our players are young and inexperienced and this team has no identity. We are still developing/growing/building...or whatever you want to call it.

But it is too early to say what has or hasn't failed in terms of the JJ deal. We won't even know what players we have given up in the draft, or what they can do, for years to come...and although I was a big Diaw supporter when he was here, I could care less about what he's doing in Phoenix.

I liked the JJ deal, I would do it again...but I am a little skeptical about the protection on the 2nd pick. That's about it.

[BornandDieHawks]

You should read all of the posts presented. I never change my stance on anything. I stated saying I jump for joy when the trade went through and Belkin lost his position. I then added we have a good player with a MAX contract, playing out of position and not leading the team.

All I feel is true..He is a good player, He does have a MAX contract (FACT), I feel he is playing out of position and I don't feel is has been a leader on the team. Not that I think he is going to score 35 ppg and dis out 12 assists and leads us to victory. I mean on the floor he is not taking control of the game. When the Hawks do start to get erratic on the floor, he's not slowing things down and getting the team back on pace.

I am closer to this trade that you would ever know. and NO I do not consider JJ a failure but at the same time he is not a pg and NBA is not the place to develop a player into that position. You can do it with the other position but not the point.

As for what we gave up for him. Our trade package had less to do with his talent than the fact we needed to lure a top FA to Atlanta. Before you start telling me what I meant or whatever. There is no doubt JJ would greatly enhance our team. That's why we made him an offer which he was going to accept. BK knew Phoenix could match and keep him, but after clearing away so much CAP room and the disapponted previous years where we could get a FA regardless of the money being toss at them. We had to up the ante. Did I support it then..YES...do I support it NOW...YES.

As for Diaw, he is just like any other ex-Hawk to me. The fact that he is playing better, what I believe is from a position change and nothing else, has nothing to do with not wanting JJ. But I am not going to hate on him and still give him props for doing what he is doing.

Now I will call it like I see it. I know it's early and all the posts being written in this forum you can say it's too early to comment. As of today, the trade favors Phoenix. Once again brother, look up nine lines. In time I think it will turn our way.

Before I do get off on that soapbox, I will admit I should have preview my post and did some editing before posting. It's cool because it started a dialogue of different opinions. Let me make it clear before I comment on another post and I am accused of changing my attitude or position. I supports the JJ trade then and now.

[Wretch]

You're saying that you never changed your stance on anything, but you just did. If you want to make it clear that you support the JJ trade...that's cool. But that isn't the theme of what you started this thread with. That's why Chill came at you like that and it's why I agreed with him.

It's all good man. I'm starting to get vertigo from the merry-go-round, so I'm done.

[shock]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

but hey......it's his time.

---

But right now, they got to do what's right for them. Because it's their time. Their time! Up there! Down here, it's our time. It's our time down here. That's all over the second we ride up Troy's bucket.

---

simply put: Brilliant

Thanks nick for the highlight of my online reading for the day!

[Nicholasp27]

np

glad it was appreciated!