Our Former Backcourt Is Thriving

[clrumph]

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Silliness, Diaw isn't even playing in the backcourt,

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Tmac that's my point! BK drafted him and wanted him to play PG, but PHX is smart enough to know that his best position is to be a versatile frontcourt player. Boris just doesn't have enough foot speed to keep up with PG's but he can be an effective frontcourt defender. Like I said, management and coaching is the issue here.

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and JT is a good player offensively.He was good offensively here. Now he is a good offensive player on a team with other good offensive players.

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Maybe if Babcock and BK could have surrounded him with "other good offensive players" then he could have had the same results here with the Hawks.

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I don't see any improvement on defense from him and I don't see any ability to be a floor general in him now which is the same as what I saw here.

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Oh yeah, well in spite all of what you just said he's leading one the best teams in the NBA, period, hitting clutch shots and winning basketball games. Ok, if you didn't want JT here because his flaws, fine, but are you now satisified with Lue, who has those same flaws but it not near as good of an offensive player? You would think if BK traded JT he would at least get another PG that would be at least as good if not an upgrade for the position. Alas, we have Lue/Ivey.

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What you see in Boris (who isn't even in the backcourt in Phoenix ) and JT is the same you saw here and they didn't fit with the system we have.

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System? What the heck are you talking about? We don't have a system other than Lue dribbling out the clock and everyone else putting up as many shots as they can get without passing the ball first. By the way, have you noticed that JJ is struggling like never before since he joined the Hawks? Does he not fit into our "system" either? Maybe if we had a "system" like Dallas and Phoenix along with those "better players" you were talking about earlier then we could win some games too. Again, management and coaching are to blame here.

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Boris because he couldn't score enough and JT because of his size and not being able to defend,

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No NBA player is perfect, but good coaching is about using players correctly in order to get the best overall use of their talents. You have to agree that Boris and JT are talented players because they are surely displaying it this year now that they have left the Hawks. Could it be that they are now a part of organizations that know what the heck they are doing?

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and also he didn't even want to be here, I think it is safe to assume, the way he talked outside ATL!

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Honestly, would you want to be here if you were JT. He tried his best to make it work here but he just didn't have the proper talent around him and the right coaches to succeed. Now that he has all of that do you think he misses the Hawks organization one bit? Would you?

[clrumph]

Sorry Tmac, my last post was in response to pathway23, not you. My bad!

[emeans]

Well this is where coaching is important. The coach should say "The ball touches at least 3 player before a shot goes up. If you can't do that then you and this pine next to me will be best friends period!!"

When I saw Antoine Walker of Miami buying into their pass first philosophy, I thought I was seeing an illusion. He has totally bought into their pass first system or his butt is on the bench.

You have to imprint this into your players ESPECIALLY if you have no true superstar like Shaq or Kobe.

Look at what Fratello is doing with Memphis!! Coaching is important people.

[sirchaz]

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a career year and a contract year!

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Diaw is signed through next year.

Suns exercised the 4th year option.

Diaw is now playing on a team that shares the ball. A team without ego trips and players that worry about "getting their stats". Diaw has fit in very well with the Suns uptempo style and system. Because he plays forward and center he is not required to shoot from the outside very often. The Suns have been trying to get Diaw since the Hawks drafted him.

Because JET is a former UA player I have followed his career. I don't think he is much different that when he played for the Hawks, he just gets more exposure now with the Mavs.

[sirchaz]

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So, using the same logic JJ's stats last year were smoke and mirrors?

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JJ put up similar numbers without Nash and without D'Antoni.

So, no, that logic doesn't apply here.

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You might want to check your facts. In particular check his shooting percentage before last year.

JJ didn't come into his own until Penny was traded, after D'Antoni took over as coach. Suns fans still thought of him as inconsistant until Nash arrived and started feeding him for the corner threes.

[Packfill]

Diaw is playing great for the Suns. Is he benefiting from playing with Steve Nash? Absolutely, just like JJ did last year. Diaw is a good player who unfortunately was not able to get it going with the Hawks - either because of coaching, maturity or style of play.

But, the point is he is a good player, not sure why people are bad mouthing him.

[emeans]

Exactly the question I was asking. The problem is not and never was Diaw. It was the organization not knowing what the hell to do with Diaw and his talents.

[Packfill]

Diaw, with his passing skills and defense, would be an awful nice complement to Al and JJ right about now.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

LOL . . will everybody please stop about Diaw? It's obvious that the Phoenix system is maximizing his skills.

Sometimes, when guys go to other teams in a different environment, they just play better.

Do you think the Bucks would've let ZaZa go, if they thought he could be a 13 and 10 guy, like he is for us? Instead, they give a HUGE deal to Dan Gadzuric. Then for some reason, they felt that Danny boy wasn't ready to log big minutes and they were very uneasy with Bogut playing center, after his Summer League performances.

So they trade Mason to bring in Magloire . . another big.

These days, Gadzuric will be lucky to log 10 minutes a game, while ZaZa is becoming one of the few nice stories for the Hawks as a starter. Gadz is destined to be a benchwarmer for the Bucks for at least 2 more years, until Magloire's and Smith's deals run out.

Talking about Diaw is senseless because his situation in Phoenix is FAR DIFFERENT than his situation while in Atlanta. And you can say the same thing about ZaZa.

[mrhonline]

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You might want to check your facts. In particular check his shooting percentage before last year.

JJ didn't come into his own until Penny was traded, after D'Antoni took over as coach. Suns fans still thought of him as inconsistant until Nash arrived and started feeding him for the corner threes.

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You might want to check yours...

[Packfill]

It is about opportunity. Zaza is getting one here and Diaw is getting one in Phoenix.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And Diaw didn't get an opportunity here? Come on now. Diaw was arguably one of the most passive players ever to put on a Hawks uniform. We literally had to beg the guy to shoot sometimes.

In Phoenix, a good or a bad shot is OK, because they have a freak like Marion that can grab about 3 - 4 offensive boards a game.

[sirchaz]

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You might want to check your facts. In particular check his shooting percentage before last year.

JJ didn't come into his own until Penny was traded, after D'Antoni took over as coach. Suns fans still thought of him as inconsistant until Nash arrived and started feeding him for the corner threes.

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You might want to check yours...

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Uh, I did.

Care to elaborate on which facts you think are in error?

[Packfill]

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And Diaw didn't get an opportunity here? Come on now. Diaw was arguably one of the most passive players ever to put on a Hawks uniform. We literally had to beg the guy to shoot sometimes.

In Phoenix, a good or a bad shot is OK, because they have a freak like Marion that can grab about 3 - 4 offensive boards a game.

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You might want to check your facts on that one. Phoenix has a much lower offensive rebound percentage then the Hawks and actually gets out-rebounded by their opponents by a pretty large margin. The Hawks, believe it or not, out-rebound their opponents and average a higher percentage of offensive rebounds then the Suns.

Diaw is a good player whose value the organization did not see. Not everyone on the team needs to be a shooter - having players who do other things then shoot is essential to any team.

For example: The Spurs have Bowen, who while a good three point shooter is not otherwise an offensive threat and does not look for his shot; The Pistons have Ben Wallace who certaintly does not look for his shot; The Lakers had two or three guys whose job was to do everything but shoot; The Bulls had Dennis Rodman who never scored; etc.

[mrhonline]

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Care to elaborate on which facts you think are in error?

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36% from 3 in 02-03 without D'Antoni, and 17/4/4 without Nash.

[sirchaz]

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Care to elaborate on which facts you think are in error?

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36% from 3 in 02-03 without D'Antoni, and 17/4/4 without Nash.

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Hmmm, maybe I am confused about what you are saying here.

36% is similar to his .269 now or his .478 last year?

And like I said he came into his own after Penny left in Jan 04. D'Antoni took over in Dec. 03.

I can tell you Joe didn't score close to 17 ppg before that.

[mrhonline]

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And like I said he came into his own after Penny left in Jan 04. D'Antoni took over in Dec. 03.

I can tell you Joe didn't score close to 17 ppg before that.

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He didn't get the minutes, so it's hard to say...

...but he performed well, even before the run n' gun was implemented.

Nash + Stoudemire certainly made him a better player, but that doesn't mean he's just a product of the system or his teammates.

[sirchaz]

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And like I said he came into his own after Penny left in Jan 04. D'Antoni took over in Dec. 03.

I can tell you Joe didn't score close to 17 ppg before that.

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He didn't get the minutes, so it's hard to say...

...but he performed well, even before the run n' gun was implemented.

Nash + Stoudemire certainly made him a better player, but that doesn't mean he's just a product of the system or his teammates.

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Sure he didn't get 40 mpg like the last 2 years but he was a part time starter and had his chances.

I am not bagging on JJ because I like him and his game but his numbers were inflated last year because of the minutes he played and the system he was in.

JJ never had the whole focus of the defense on him in Phoenix except for maybe a short stretch with Amare injured.

That team only won 29 games but finished the season strong.

[Inside_Man]

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sigh... Diaw is doing nothing more in Phoenix than he did in Atlanta. He's not playing harder (well, maybe a little, cuz he's a soft necked puss) and he's not any better. The difference is that he has experienced players around him, the reigning MVP running the team and they have enough shooters they don't really care if he only shoots 4 shots per game. All they ask him to do is play a little defense, reboud and pass the ball to the guys who are better than him, so they can make shots.

When he cried to the media while in Atlanta, that's what he begged for. He wanted to "be able to use his all-around game" which is an excuse for being a puss who can't shoot and doesn't want to work on his shooting enough to help improve the team. In Phoenix he got his ultimate wish and got put in the perfect situation for his balanced but otherwise limited skillset.

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Please Chillz - the facts speak otherwise. Boris had 17 points on Wednesday. He has 13 in the first half-tonight! HE WAS THE SUNS LEADING SCORER IN THE FIRST HALF TONIGHT!!!!

Diaw is proof that our coaching SUCKS! Back when the trade went down, the guys at that phoenix board were all saying that their coaches would teach him to shoot and teach him their system and as long as he had the skills he'd be fine. And they were right. He was never coached here, just like all these young'uns we have aren't being coached now.

FIRE WOODSON!!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

LOL . . I didn't say anything about Phoenix's overall rebounding. I said that Marion grabs about 3 - 4 offensive boards a game. What I didn't add to that, is that Marion usually SCORES off of those offensive rebounds.

That team takes a lot of long jumpshots, so of course they'll get outrebounded on most nights. But that team, when they do grab offensive rebounds, make you pay dearly for it either with a putback or by kicking it out and draining a wide open 3. That's how they get up on teams so quickly.