I love a three way

[exodus]

New Yorks defense is even worse than ours. They have given up 106 ppg their last 10 games. If Frye really is that good on D then Brown would be playing him more and wouldn't be begging for Theo.

[Diesel]

IN the last 10 games,

Josh Smith has averaged 2.8 blocks per game.

Teams are shooting 49.1% on us.

[Diesel]

Quote:

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New Yorks defense is even worse than ours.

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Last 10 games.

Opponents shooting 45.8% on NY.

Opponents shooting 49.1% on Atl.

[exodus]

Quote:

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Teams are shooting 49.1% on us.

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For that I give you Al, who never met an opposing player's layup that he was willing to contest, and Zaza.

[Diesel]

And what effect has Smoove the great and his 2.8 bpg had on opponents coming down the lane for the mighty layup.

I guarantee you if we had Deke in his prime playing with Al, this defense would be LOCKED UP. NO defender would dare come down the lane to try to score. I know this is true because we had Deke playing behind Big Al Henderson. And whenever Al's man would slide away, Deke was there to pin their shot to the backboard.

The point is that Blocks are not how you should interpret good defense. It's just a statistic and sometimes it only means that you have taken away that number of possessions. But good positional defense is a vic every time.

[Johnnybravo4]

Quote:

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Zaza Leads all big men in steals.

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Zaza isn't horrible defensively, it is just that he lacks bulk in the post against the big centers and he isn't athletic enough to be a shot blocker...but he is tough and gives effort and gambles a lot...which is why he gets a lot of steals. But are you going to tell me that Josh Smith isn't a good defender because he blocks 2.3 per game? Was Mutumbo's 5 DPY honors not warranted?

[exodus]

What position does Smith play?

[exodus]

Quote:

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The point is that Blocks are not how you should interpret good defense.

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Do you want me to go find your posts about Nene's lack of shotblocking?

[Diesel]

[exodus]

I'll have to do it after i leave work.

[Diesel]

Quote:

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Diesel:

If a Denver fan says Nene is the best post defender on the team, maybe he's smoking crack...

--------------------

"Smoove doesn't have the tools to be a superstar. "

-Lascar aka Nick

Bogut = 11.9 ppg, 8.1 rpg, .7 bpg (41%FG%) (2005)...

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exodus

Pooh-Bah

Reged: 11/06/05

Posts: 1875

Re: Diesel on Defense. [Re: Diesel]

#111978 - 12/21/05 11:10 AM

Edit post Edit Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote

Quote:

If a Denver fan says Nene is the best post defender on the team, maybe he's smoking crack...

Or maybe, having watched him for his whole career, he actually knows Nene's game. And you are simply blinded by homerism.

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Diesel

Hawksquawk Supporter

Reged: 06/08/02

Posts: 13014

Re: Diesel on Defense. [Re: exodus]

#111979 - 12/21/05 11:11 AM

Edit post Edit Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote

Or maybe he's never watched Camby...

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[Spiral]

No Thank You. I wouldn't do any deal that includes Marbury. His contract is the most outrageous in the entire league.

[exodus]

I found this rather quickly:

Quote:

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6.5 rpg, That's very low for somebody his size. can you say FOYLE.

0.82 bpg.. DAMN Even Foyle does better than this.

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from this thread

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....r=111724&Forum=,,All_Forums,,&Words=nene&Searchpage=2&Limit=25&Main=111707&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=17&daterange=1&newerval=3&newertype=m&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post111724

Funny but those numbers look a lot like Frye's.

I'll have more later.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

LOL . . people talk like Marbury is garbage or something. Marbury would instantly make us a better team, and make some of our young players better.

It wouldn't bother me one bit if this team picked up Marbury and tried him for 1/2 of this year and the first half of next year. If he doesn't work out, you can always trade him for lesser players that may fit our needs better.

Q: Who would take on Marbury's contract?

A: A borderline playoff team that is in desperate need for a PG, which is about 1/2 the league.

[Diesel]

Quote:

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I'm sure you wouldn't be the only happy person. Exodus would be happy too.

My problem with the trade is this.

How good is Nene'?

A lot has been made of Nene' but when he got playing time, he didn't prove himself. He's not a great rebounder, he doesn't jump well. He has good hands and he's quick around the basket.. but when Denver depended on him to be their low post scorer/defender... he was disappointing.

But there's something even more bad than his play in Denver. It's his injuries...

Tell me something. How is it that you have a young stud who you have talked with Boston about trading their best player for (Pierce for Nene).. You have told other teams that if you want him the price is going to be high... But when it is time to sign his extension... You don't do it? Why would you do that?

Maybe because Kiki has seen how often one player can be injured.

Nene may not be injured like Penny.. You know, you never really recover from it injury... But it seems he's injured like Camby. You know.. Injured so much that a promising career is not possible.

Watson is not much of a upgrade over Lue.

We passed up getting Watson already... What is different now?

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and this is what I said after you tried to compare Nene to JChillz?

Quote:

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Nene' shoots 50%. Good god, I would hope so. He's a C playing next to a Sf who is a big time scorer..... Most of the time, that's a recipe for shooting over 50%.

Secondly... The only stats that matters for C...

Points, rebounds, FG%, Blocks.

In 32.5 minutes.

11+ ppg. That's mighty low.

6.5 rpg, That's very low for somebody his size. can you say FOYLE.

0.82 bpg.. DAMN Even Foyle does better than this.

Right now, there's nothing pushing me to say that Nene' is better than Zaza.

Lastly...

I wouldn't be surprised if Danny Ainge traded Paul Pierce for a 1982 copy of the Boston Celtics Players guide and PJ Brown. I'm just not sold on Ainge's ability to be a GM. So him thinking about traded for Miller and Nene.. is not surprising. Kiki was probably somewhere laughing during the discussions.

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and

[Diesel]

I like how you left out the most relevant part...

In 32.5 minutes.

Channing Frye hasn't sniffed those kind of minutes...

[exodus]

Ok i'll give Frye an extra rebound and .2 blocks for the extra 7 minutes, which puts him at;

6.8 rebounds

1.0 blocks

Pretty similar to Nene's numbers, which you were scoffing at.

And don't worry, I'll have more after I get home.

[xman]

I am going to ignore the contracts that expire soon (within 2 years) like: MoT, GHill, Cato, Rose, etc.

Other contract that are marginal:

my favorite - BCardinal, 5 mil this year through 6.7 in 2010

will show this with a / for the rest - - 5/6.7

AWilliams (tor) - 6.3/6.8through 2008

Kenny Thomas - 6.1/8.5 through 2010

Boozer - 11.5/12.6 thru 2010

Okur - 8/9 thru 2010

Dampier - 7.6/13 thru 2011

KenyonMartin (if he is hurt)- 10.6/16.5 thru 2011

WallyS - 10/13 thru 2009 (LaFrents is almost identical)

Portland - Miles/Randolph/Ratliff

New York - MalikRose/QRich/JCrawford/JeromeJames

Minnesota - Blount/Hudson/Jaric/Hassell

Miami - Walker/Shaq/Haslem/JWill

Lakers - Odom/Kwame

Golden State - Murphy/Foyle

[Spiral]

As bad as those are, I still think paying 20 million (almost half of the salary cap) for 2 years for a player of Marbury's caliber is inane. I can see paying 20 million for a Shaq, Kobe, LeBron or even T-Mac or AI, but not on Marbury. Any team that will trade for Stephon Marbury is doing the Knicks a favor. I created a thread in the trade forum not too long ago asking if Stephon Marbury is tradeable at all and aside from Diesel, everyone else had the opinion that his contract is so absurd that he is virtually untradeable.

[Diesel]

I believe Marbury will be very productive over the next 2 yrs. 20 million dollars worth?? Probably not.. However, we get an up and coming PF out of the mix too. We also have the opportunity to get his salary off the books before we're ready to resign our young stars and to pick up a free agent...