Reality check for all Hawks fans

[Peoriabird]

I've notice that everyone that post on this board has there favorite whipping boy on the hawks' roster. You'll see post that criticize Al's lack of rebounding & defense, Zaza's lack of shot blocking ability & defense. Joe johnson's lack of star quality, Chidress' lack of foot speed, Salim Lack of ball handling skills, Marvin's lack of agression, Ivey lack of point guard instincts, and the list goes and on. And many people will point to those flaws as the reason why the Hawks are losing which prompts many to conclude that if we get rid of any of the above, we would be a better team. Of course if we traded any of the above of a super star like Duncan yes we would be better. But that's not going to happen! So since we most likely have to deal with the hand that we have been dealt, we need to realistically look for real problem.

All of the above player although flawed has improved their play in some area. Some during the course of the season. There is however one player that has gotten worse as time has passed and he is still in the starting line-up and that player is Josh Smith. Now I am not suggesting that we trade him or not be patient with him but I am wondering why is he the only hawk that gets a free pass when it comes to criticism? Smoove's shot selection has not improved, his field goal% his not improved, his man defense has not improved, His post offense has not improved, his rebounding has not improved, & his ability to finish around the basket has not improve which is my biggest concern. Yet everybody wants to sight everybody else 1 or 2 flaws but ignore Smoove countless flaws. Why is this? Just food for thought.

[Lascar78]

translation: everyone has a whipping boy, mine is josh smith

lol

I think people don't talk about smith too much because everyone is well aware of his flaws and no one pretends that they aren't there. Smith improved as the season went on, but has played really poorly for the last 3 weeks or so.

Personally, I don't know that I have a whipping boy, but I tend to focus on Al, and the reason is that we have to make a huge decision on him within the next 6 months. I don't think that his talent justifies having to put up with his flaws (i.e. no defense, ballhogging) for the next 6 years at a big price. That being said, I am well aware of the many flaws of all our players and am willing to put up with them.

I tend to criticize players not just to bash them, but when I think that something on the court indicates some sort of personnel move that needs to be made. i.e. Al's D means we should trade him for a better fit, Lue's D and lack of playmaking tells me we need a starting PG, and Zaza and Smith's play tells me that we need at least one more big once Al is gone.

[tmac13]

Heres my take on our team..

Our point guards..

Lue..A decent backup..Good offense, bad defense.

Ivy..An average defensive player, which makes him our best defensive guard..Seems tentative offensively, Woody should drill him to be more aggressive and see what he can do.

Salim..Never passes up a shot..Might be a great offensive player but has bad handles and even worse defense..

Our shooting guards..

JJ..A very nice player, does everything well, probably not shelfish enough.

JChill..A garbage player..Not great in any area, but athletic enough to make plays..Should pattern his game after Bruce Bowen..

Our Forwards..

Al Harrington..A gifted scorer..and thats all..Doesn't give good effort on defense and is a below average rebounder..Has basically become a shot chucker..

Marvin Williams..Outside of JJ, has the most complete game of anyone on the team..Shows flashes of greatness but has to become more aggressive..Needs to play 30 mins a game..

Smoove..Another garbage player..Is so athletic he might be able to make a career simply by jumping higher than his man..Needs to be forced inside..I think he is more of a 4/5 ..Could be a defensive force if he were always around the basket..No real offensive game at this point.

The centers..

Zaza..A very effective center..He is a decent scorer, a good rebounder, and provides toughness..He needs to get better defensively or be paired with a defensive minded 4 to be most effective..Don't forget he is only 21..He might be the best or the baby centers..

Esteban..Besides giving great guitar lessons he has all the makings of a true NBA thug..If we can teach him not to foul so much could be a real enforcer in the future.

Well, thats my take..We still need a real point guard and a defensive minded 4/5..Combine that with some experience and better coaching and we are a playoff team..

Detroit is apparently listening to offers for Darko and Aroyo..If they would trade us those 2 plus their 1st round draft choice for Delk and Harrington I think it would be a good deal for both teams..Thoughts???

[SmooveTheFuture]

Quote:

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Heres my take on our team..

Our point guards..

Lue..A decent backup..Good offense, bad defense.

Ivy..An average defensive player, which makes him our best defensive guard..Seems tentative offensively, Woody should drill him to be more aggressive and see what he can do.

Salim..Never passes up a shot..Might be a great offensive player but has bad handles and even worse defense..

Our shooting guards..

JJ..A very nice player, does everything well, probably not shelfish enough.

JChill..A garbage player..Not great in any area, but athletic enough to make plays..Should pattern his game after Bruce Bowen..

Our Forwards..

Al Harrington..A gifted scorer..and thats all..Doesn't give good effort on defense and is a below average rebounder..Has basically become a shot chucker..

Marvin Williams..Outside of JJ, has the most complete game of anyone on the team..

Shows flashes of greatness

but has to become more aggressive..Needs to play 30 mins a game..

Smoove..Another garbage player..Is so athletic he might be able to make a career simply by jumping higher than his man..Needs to be forced inside..I think he is more of a 4/5 ..Could be a defensive force if he were always around the basket..No real offensive game at this point.

The centers..

Zaza..A very effective center..He is a decent scorer, a good rebounder, and provides toughness..He needs to get better defensively or be paired with a defensive minded 4 to be most effective..Don't forget he is only 21..He might be the best or the baby centers..

Esteban..Besides giving great guitar lessons he has all the makings of a true NBA thug..If we can teach him not to foul so much could be a real enforcer in the future.

Well, thats my take..We still need a real point guard and a defensive minded 4/5..Combine that with some experience and better coaching and we are a playoff team..

Detroit is apparently listening to offers for Darko and Aroyo..If they would trade us those 2 plus their 1st round draft choice for Delk and Harrington I think it would be a good deal for both teams..Thoughts???

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Sorry I dont know when I have seen Marvin Show me anything that warrants him great in any way or form.

[exodus]

Quote:

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There is however one player that has gotten worse as time has passed and he is still in the starting line-up and that player is Josh Smith. Now I am not suggesting that we trade him or not be patient with him but I am wondering why is he the only hawk that gets a free pass when it comes to criticism? Smoove's shot selection has not improved, his field goal% his not improved, his man defense has not improved, His post offense has not improved, his rebounding has not improved, & his ability to finish around the basket has not improve which is my biggest concern.

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You must be watching a different player than I am watching.

The Josh Smith I am watching shot 46% from the field in December and January. He has struggled the last 3 games though.

The Josh Smith I am watching has the following rebounding numbers:

November 5.0

December 5.1

January 6.3

February 7.6

Looks like steady improvement to me. Considering he is playing the 3 i think he is doing a good job on the boards.

He plays good man D on big men but struggles guarding quicker players. That isn't going to change most likely. I blame the coaching staff for not playing him at the 4/5 on D exclusively.

When matched against a bigger player Joshs man D is good. Although he can sometimes get caught out of position he holds his ground well when guys try to back him down. They aren't quick enough to get around him and when they try to shoot over him he either blocks or challenges the shot. He doesn't let guys shoot layups right in his face like Harrington.

His offense inside sucks, no way around that.

[Popeye]

You just don't get it buddy. Did you watch the game last night? Yes Marvin was strugling but he still had 9 reb and was agressive unlike J-Smoove who was killing us with those wide open airballs. That was his worst game ever!!

[Plastic Man]

yeah he was so bad he shot the same as MW24! 1 for 7. smoove has hit those shots this year which is an improvement from last year. those two air balls didn't kill us. nique's nephew killed us.

[Eddielives]

Here's my take. With Smoove, you have such raw athleticism that hasn't really translated yet into fundamental skill. Somehow someone is going to have to decide if he's ever going to fully develop. I guess this is ultimately BK's decision. I am still sort of skeptical he will ever develop like the TMac's and Kobe's. Much like the rep he had before being drafted, he's got all the athletic skill in the world but doesn't exhibit fundamental b-ball skill(that is when it comes to ball handling and decision making). You have to be able to do more than just jump high to make it in this league.

With Marvin, you have the exact opposite. He's shown ball-handling skills, a good jumpshot and decent decision making for a first year guy but needs to be more strong and atheletic. No he's not better than Smoove all around right now but he obviously more understanding and developed with fundamentals. You can see his future more clearly even if he hasn't demonstrated the energy that Smoove has.

[HAWKSFAN]

There is no positive to Esteban Batista. I know people love to talk about his fouls and hard fouls and all, but he's a bum and will never be good. It's just as much a wasted roster spot as John Edwards or Tony Delk.

[Gray Mule]

Batman does what he does very well.

He's never, I don't believe, going to be a great, all star

player. Probably never become a consistent starter.

What he gives us is important. Hawks need what he brings.

We all look for starters. We want the top five players

on the floor. Then, we want players to back them up,

to be able to step in and fill in when the starter goes

down, for what ever reason, whether for a few minutes

or for a few games.

This is not really Batman's position, at least not right

now. He's the big body that Hawks have needed for a

long time. Someone who can come in and put a stop to

the run when the lane begins to open up and the opponent

runs a layup drill, over and over, on this team.

He gets too many fouls. He'll learn to limit these

somewhat as he learns the NBA game and discovers what

he can get by with and what he can't. But, because

of what he does for the team, he will collect a lot

of fouls.

Teams will learn to respect his presence inside and

may hesitate to continually drive inside on him. He

does give the hard foul. Usually, the opponent will

have to earn his points at the line and not get that

"And One!" call that means someone fouled, the shot

went in and they still get a free throw for the 3rd.

point on the play.

Batman gets some rebounds while he's in and has been

known to make a decent pass and occasionally score.

He not only gives out fouls, he draws some from the

opponent, too.

No, he's no star. Nor a starter. But, we really need

him and what he brings to the floor.

[Spiral]

I think Batista is the scrappy type player all teams love to have. As he learns the game more, I don't see any reason he couldn't be like an Eduardo Najera or Mark Madsen.

[hawksnumba1fan]

you are crazy SMOOVE has improved greatly he has his better games wehn he spends most of his time at the 4 and to say MARVIN is playing better than him is crazy they have both not been playing well lately and as much as I like CHILL he has been turning it over a lot lately but for these guys to get better we have to trade AL

[exodus]

The funny thing about Batman, which hasn't gotten much comment here, is that he is very athletic. he isn't just a brute. He actually has good quickness and jumps very well.

That save he made last game, when the pass was over his head on the baseline, was an amazing athletic play. He did a great job just to get a hand on it. and then through it back with so much force that the seatle player couldn't catch it and it went out of bounds on the other sideline.