When does Phoenix get our picks??

[Wurider05]

I am not clear on when they get the draft picks from the JJ-Diaw trade.

[Lascar78]

1. they get the pick we would have gotten from LA or Boston. So that one's gone but it was just an extra one. It comes this year probably

2. the only pick of ours that we will lose will happen

a) this year if we make the playoffs (NOT HAPPENING)

b) next year if we do not get one of the top 3 picks in the draft (VERY LIKELY)

c) the next year otherwise I think

Basically, the only pick of ours that we lose will be in 07 if we don't get a top 3 pick, and in 08 otherwise

In all likelihood, they're getting our 07 pick

someone correct me if I'm wrong

[Diesel]

Lascar really doesn't believe that we owned both picks that we gave up to Phoenix. That was our pick. It may have been positioned based on LA or Boston's record, but It was OURS. It was not charity. Boston didn't say... Ok, you can have this pick. We gave up JT for that pick.

[DJlaysitup]

Don't forget Deisel...the one pick we will be giving up probably will come to nothing anyway - so we basically gave up nothing

[AHF]

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Lascar really doesn't believe that we owned both picks that we gave up to Phoenix. That was our pick. It may have been positioned based on LA or Boston's record, but It was OURS.

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Agreed but an Atlanta pick is worth a hell of a lot more than the worst of a Bos/LA selection.

[Lascar78]

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Agreed but an Atlanta pick is worth a hell of a lot more than the worst of a Bos/LA selection.

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exactly, by a long shot.

plus it's a much bigger deal to give a 1st up and leave yourself without a first rounder for a year (you can only improve through free agency) than it is to trade an extra pick coming from another team. Of course we still lose a draft pick, bu many people make it sound like the JJ trade will leave us without a first rounder for 2 years which is not the case at all. There is only one year where we won't have our first rounder

[MrAloha]

Isn't the rule: a team cannot trade their first round draft pick for two consecutive years ?

Are the Hawks allowed to trade their 2006 first round pick regardless of whether Phoenix gets the 2007 pick ? Or will it be "frozen" just in case ???

[Wretch]

Yes, it is a rule. But we are not giving Phoenix our pick this year. We're giving away a pick VIA Boston/LA.

[Wretch]

I don't know about "nothing", and I'm not sure many people believe that pick will be nothing, as it will produce an NBA player by default; but if it is mid-late teens, then we have effectively given up some potential journeymen.

/yawn

[MrAloha]

Yes. Thanks. I understand what you are saying. But can the Hawks trade their 2006 first round draft pick to some team this year to acquire a player or a 2007 draft pick from another team ? Would it be allowed knowing that they may have to give up their 2007 1st round pick next year ?

Thereby trading their 1st round pick away for two consecutive years ?

Just curious.

[Diesel]

I think the bottom line on that rule is this..

No team can go without being in the first round two years in a row.

It's the cleveland rule.

Cleveland's GM gave away their first round picks 3 consecutive years. That kills a franchise's chance to grow.

I believe it's possible to trade a first rounder... Even ones based on your position as long as there is another first rounder somewhere.

For instance, we could have traded both of "our" first rounders to phoenix and kept the first rounder we acquired from Boston and there would not have been a problem... The only problem would have been in justifying that the conditional pick was going to be ours within the next 2 yrs.

[Lascar78]

my understanding is that it's your picks. You can't go 2 years without your first rounder, regardless of having anyone else's. I've wondered what happens on conditional picks before, which is what mr aloha is asking. I don't know the answer.

My guess is that we can't trade our 2006 pick as it is overwhelmingly likely that we will be giving our 2007 pick up to Phoenix. I don't know if there is a hard rule on how conditional picks are handled, or if the NBA office makes a ruling on a case by case basis.

Really though, we can have a secret arrangement with a team and draft whoever they want, and then trade the rights to that player on draft night after we draft the player. That should satisfy all rules. But we have to wait for draft night

[AHF]

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my understanding is that it's your picks. You can't go 2 years without your first rounder, regardless of having anyone else's. I've wondered what happens on conditional picks before, which is what mr aloha is asking. I don't know the answer.

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My understand is that the limitation on trading your own picks operates as a condition on the second trade.

As in making an offer and telling the other team: you get our 2008 first round pick unless the Suns don't get our pick this year in which case you get our 2009 first round pick unless the Suns don't get our 2007 pick in which case you get our 2010 pick.

[Lascar78]

^^^ That's my understanding also for subsequent drafts. But where it gets messy is for previous drafts. You can't say you get our 2006 draft pick unless phoenix gets our 2007 draft pick unless you have a sweet time machine...

[AHF]

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^^^ That's my understanding also for subsequent drafts. But where it gets messy is for previous drafts. You can't say you get our 2006 draft pick unless phoenix gets our 2007 draft pick unless you have a sweet time machine...

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Our 2006 pick is already obligated to Phoenix until it become mathematically impossible for us to make the playoffs. We couldn't trade it anyway until then.

After that point, though, you are 100% right. I'm not sure how that works in theory but I can tell you how it works in practice - you just make the pick and trade the player:

"With the 3rd pick in the draft the Hawks select Rudy Gay from Connecticut....Announcing a trade, the Hawks have traded the draft rights to Rudy Gay for X & Y."

[Lascar78]

yeah that's what I was saying earlier