Let Cooler Heads Prevail.

[Diesel]

OK, we lost. We should have won but we broke down defensively and offensively. So, we must examine what went wrong and what we need to do.

First... What went wrong.

1. Big Dog didn't produce Consistently.

Answer. With time, our other guys will learn to step up when Big Dog's not hitting all of his shots. It doesn't mean that Big Dog is inconsistent. It means that our coaches have to realize when defenses are concentrating on Big Dog and run game plans to get somebody else going.

2. Turnovers.

Answer. IN yesterdays "keys to the games" the most important was that we didn't turn the ball over. This might take a little bit of work, but we need to go out and get a real ball handler. I don't like Email. And I think that we can do much better if we got somebody who can run the offense and spell Terry. Here's my suggestion:

Trade.

I would trade Dion Glover/Email/2nd rd Pick for Smush Parker/Jumaine Jones.

Both would help us tremendously... I think Parker is a guy who can come in and play behind JT immediately. The kid is a good defender and an efficient ball handler.

3. Bench Scoring.

Well, can't be too mad at the bench. They just didn't produce. That chemistry will take time to work out. If the starters aren't sure of their roles, the bench can't be too sure of theirs either.

No where, would I consider trading reef, unless there were something better (either down the road). Hotlanta dudes comments about SAR are ridiculous. He's a top 5 Pf (period). He makes us better (period). Brand, Oneal better than SAR? get a grip.

However, if you want to throw a trade out there:

SAR/JT/CC to Houston for Francis/Griff/Thomas/1st (2003).

We'd be a great defensive team at the end.

[Guest]

1. Big Dog didn't produce Consistently."

I told you Marion would slap him around

and that is what he did.

"No where, would I consider trading reef, unless there were something better (either down the road). Hotlanta dudes comments about SAR are ridiculous. He's a top 5 Pf (period). He makes us better (period). Brand, Oneal better than SAR? get a grip."

In the minds of Hawksquawkers he is...However

other fans see his weakness ball handling/defense

and the fact that he has no ability to take a game

over.Those do not make for a top 5 pf....to the

unbiased NBA fans atleast.

The turnovers killed us againest a team better than

us.They made these mistakes and beat hasbeen and

young teams like the Bulls/Nuggets/Jazz and they

were able to overcome them.However agianest better

teams ESP on the road these result in losses.However

the team hasn't even slightly improved over the last

5 games.

I dunno where Terry Stotts and company see the quick

progress because they are doing the same things they

did on opening night.These things are going to happen

til they stop the cocky and careless [censored] and play

basketball.

Stop with passes they don't have the talent to com

plete and make the simple passes.I think the media

has become a problem and is the culprit of some of

the Hawks problems.However they are grown men

and shouldn't allow that to effect them.

[Guest]

I think it was Trace, but I'm not sure, who astutely pointed out that most of Penny's fourth quarter 3's were the direct result of our turning the ball over on the other end of the court, specifically in giving the ball to "energy man and finisher" Darvin Ham (notice ball-handler was not in that description.

That cannot be overlooked. It's huge as it accounts for their scoring nine points and our getting zero! Blame whoever you like...

[Diesel]

I still don't see the reason for an assault on SAR?

Is he not a 20/10 PF?

How many of those can you find in the East?

Let me see??

Oneal is almost one. 19/10.

last yr Walker was a 22/8 PF.

Secondly, Reef scored most times from the low Post. Unlike Walker and Oneal. The difference being that we didn't play a lot of uptempo basketball. Definitely not like Indy and Boston does. That means that Reef is a worker. He doesn't get most of his points on uncontested fast breaks or by taking threes. When the games get important, this form of scoring will be important... Because the first thing a championship team does is take control of the tempo. IF you don't believe me ask Jason Kidd. Against the Lakers, that uptempo game became a walk it up game. IN those situations, if you don't have a worker in the post, you will be limited to shooting from outside. AND 9 times out of 10, advantage goes to the defense.

Keep Reef.

[Guest]

Of course you don't...Your a homer.

"Is he not a 20/10 PF?"

He only averaged 10RPG one season.What

about defense???Does this not count at all

with anybody here?Does Howard pushing

around the so called best player not concern

you?

If your a 20/9 PF and you are giving up 25 points

where are you the advange?

If Reef was such a worker he would play better

defense.

he gets paid like a top PF yet 20/9 is not good enough

to be considered a top 5 PF.ESP when you don't

play any defense.DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE!

I thought I was gunna have a heart attack the

other night when he actually took a charge.

" IF you don't believe me ask Jason Kidd."

Kidd is a difference maker.He makes the difference

between wins and losses.Not getting blown out or

staying in games.He brings WINS.

Like I said before,I'd rather meet Reef than Webber/

O'Neal/KG as people.But on the court.We need before

if we are able to reach our potential.

Maybe one day he will prove me wrong.He gets paid

like Webber and others he should produce 23-25PPG

11RPG and play defense and step up.If he was a leader

he would have steped up last night but he didn't.It's

that simple.

He's due for a FA in two years and all he is worth is

8 million a year.

[Diesel]

Before you continue to randomly spout off. Let's stick to some subjects here.

First off.

IS SAR one of the best PFs in the East? Give me your top 5 in the east.

And please please try to explain how Ben Wallace is better than Reef and I will laugh in your face and behind your back.

Secondly.

How many of your top 5 actually can score without transition? How many can score in the post.

About defense. NO, SAR is not a top defender. However, do we respect top defenders around here? I remember YOU talking about how bad Deke was because all he did was play defense and rebound. Now you talk about Reef who is probably the third best POST scorer in the game because he scores and gets about 9 rpg.? And in the same breath, you complain about Theo's offense too? What do you want?

One thing I have alway known about the way you looked at teams is that you NEVER see TEAM. You have been NBCLized and you only see individual players. And you think that Everyone has to be like your Playstation guys and be good at everything and be the reason why their team wins. Well, that's not team. The truth of the matter, is that SAR represents a component of our team. He scores in the post. He's a guy that we can count on for 2 in a half court set. You don't know how important that is because you expect Jordan to show up.

Brand, Oneal, and Walker cannot reproduce what SAR can do in the post. Last yr, SAR totally destroyed Ben Wallace. (so much for defense).

Our TEAM gets its defense from Ira/Theo. However, until our team defense gets better, you will always have a complaint? But that doesn't mean that SAR isn't what I say or we say. Find 6 PFs who is more dominant in the post than SAR?

I'll give you 2... Tim Duncan and KG!

[Iman]

If dominating on all parts of the floor is required to be a superstar then I agree, Shareef is not that kinda player. A few players do that but most other second tier superstars can be exposed too. Nowitski, is he a shooting guard or PF? Practically the same with Walker, just a junk player. On the other end, in my mind Ben Wallace is a PF due to his height and to me he's not close to the superstar level, I can shoot the ball better than he can.

What I like about Reef is you put him on the floor for 35+ minutes and you know what you're gonna get. He's one of the most consistent performers I've ever seen. Just watch he'll have an off nite shooting one nite and he check the stats at the end of the game and he'll still get close to his 20?10. He's very tough to stop on offense but does seem to miss the clutch shot, often because he seems to wanna shoot if from outside instead of staying on the post in the clutch..coaching and having Big Dog out there should help that. He's a solid but unspectacular rebounder and defender in my book. Sometimes he cant stop a good PF that's on a roll but that's true of most non-Shaq or Jordan named players. As Theo and Reef get most used to each other I bet it'll seem Reef's defense improves.

Give me Tim Duncan at PF, if he's unavailable I guess I'd be stuck with Weber, but after that I'll take Shareef as long as you have someone like JT who is gonna usually get the key shot anyways.

[jaywalker72]

If we truly thought that we would be playing consistent, mistake free basketball on the road out West this early in the season, shame on us.

This team still has to find it's way, especially in regards to patience, defense, and turnovers.

There will be many ups and downs in this season, and at least this year the ups should balance the downs, if our talent level has been any indication.

There will be nights when we blow doors, and other nights when we throw it away.

Hopefully, though, as the season progresses, we will play more consistently and make less of the same mistakes. That's how we'll know if this team is improving and how far they may go.

77 more to go, let's keep it together....

[Guest]

IS SAR one of the best PFs in the East? Give me your top 5 in the east."

Lets talk about in the league.I mean come on

Antonio Davis made the allstar team in the east.

In the league the PF's go:

1)Tim Duncan

2)Kevin Garnett

3)Chris Webber

4)Dirk N

---------------------------------------------------------------

5)Elton Brand

6)Jermaine O'Neal

7)Rasheed Wallace

8)Pau Gasol

9)Shareef

10)Karl Malone

11)Antoine Walker

"Secondly.

How many of your top 5 actually can score without transition? How many can score in the post."

Other than Walker had his 3pt shots all the time I

don't really care how they score if they make a

difference when the game means something.

" I remember YOU talking about how bad Deke was because all he did was play defense and rebound."

I talked about how bad Deke' offense was because

the fact that he wants the ball and eats 20 seconds

up off the shot clock.Of course I talked about how

bad it is.

"The truth of the matter, is that SAR represents a component of our team. He scores in the post. He's a guy that we can count on for 2 in a half court set."

Where was he when Penny was knock down threes?

That's right running up and down the court doing

nothing.

"Brand, Oneal, and Walker cannot reproduce what SAR can do in the post. Last yr, SAR totally destroyed Ben Wallace. (so much for defense)."

One game.lol it was a fluke.Where was the second 50

game?Or even a 40 point game since?

" Find 6 PFs who is more dominant in the post than SAR? "

Again who gives a [censored] if you don't win?If Webber

or KG wins shooting 20 footers I'll take them.If

Brand gets his 20PPG score junk baskets I'll take

him and not to mention he is a much better defender

than SAR on top of that.

IF SAR is ever going to be worth his contract he

needs to be more selfish in the 4th and improve

his defense or else he is always going to be a

step below and be Howard like.

[swolehawk2]

Why is Dirk on that list then? He has played an ounce of defense yet!!....U R a JOKE

Soft Gasol....please isn't that Reef's Biatch.

Elton Brand yeah he really lights it up when it counts..amd Mr Gasol boy he sure gets his team a lot of wins.

KG really pulls the Wolves out in the clutch...whatever.

Cwebb...yeah game is on the line... [censored] that post...I'm gonna shoot a 22 footer

Point is all the above have flaws in their games except maybe Duncan.....[censored] what has Jermaine O'neal done that Reef hasn't. Except get punked by Kenyon Martin.

U NEED COUNSELING CUZ.....

what does Penny going off have to anything to do with Reef?

[Guest]

His defense seems to have improved alittle

this season.Plus he is younger and can improve

it and he actually wins ball games and scares

the [censored] out of people in the 4th.

Dirk killed Reef last year.When Reef goes up

againest Webber/Dirk/KG/Duncan/Brand/O'neal

you can tell Shareef is inferior.

[Guest]

Basically we gunna dissagree.You think Shareef

is great,and I think he is really a 3rd option getting

paid like a superstar.The problem is we have 3

second options.

[BIGBIRD]

Do i think SAR is a superstar? NO. But these days they are few and far between. Is he a star player, one who can carry a team, be a force?YES.

ELTON BRAND-Top talent with heart,probably on par with SAR, but i havn't seen this defense you proclaim.

JERMAINE ONEAL-Obviously you obtain your opinions from preseason magazines. They all where in love with Oneal.But what has he done. Really, tell me.

RASHEED WALLACE-Superior talent but, and this is a huge but, his attitude(on and off the court)put him behind SAR.

PAU GASOL-Defense? where is the D. Someday maybe but not today.

Your comparison of SAR and HOWARD says all that needs to be said of your knowledge of talent.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

)Tim Duncan

2)Kevin Garnett

3)Chris Webber

4)Dirk N

5)Elton Brand

6)Jermaine O'Neal

7)Rasheed Wallace

8)Pau Gasol

9)Shareef

10)Karl Malone

11)Antoine Walker

---

These are the guys you say come before Shareef.

Let's start from the bottom and work our way up....

Walker. Come on, he's a junk player who really plays no defense and doesn't rebound as well as SAR.

Malone. How many 0 fors have you ever seen Shareef put up. In his hey day, Malone was the man... BUT NOT NOW.

Gasol. Please. That's funny. Gasol doesn't have the true size and Reef executed Gasol head to head last yr.

Wallace. Wallace has always been a good player. But Wallace has also been a head case. His game is like Walker's. He's better from outside than inside. That's why Portland always loses in the playoffs. The Lakers break the game down to a half court game, then Portland is relying on Wallace's three balls.

Oneal. Did you notice that ONeal just became a 20 ppg player. It took Jalen Leaving and Reggie Declining and ONeal getting about 100 shots per game. I like Oneal, but Oneal doesn't have the offensive ability that Shareef has. ONeal is Stoppable. However, Shareef is Unstoppable. Or atleast, I haven't seen it happen.

Brand. If you ever really sit down and watch Brand, his offense is unimpressive. I am more impressed with Tyson Chandler's potential than Elton Brand. Compared to Shareef, Elton is a slightly better defender BUT offensively, he's stoppable. Shareef would eat him whole.

Dirk N. So you criticize SAR's defense and then you hold up the poster boy for bad defender up as your 4. I will admit that Dirk is a better scoring PF. Problem is that Dirk is probably the best scoring PF in the league. However, most of his scoring is behind the arc. Fortunately he's a really good shooter so I don't have a problem with him being considered better.

CWebb. CWebb looks better in commercials, but is he a better defender? When I watch the Kings, I'm not saying... [censored], CWebb plays good defense. However, CWebb does pass better than reef and he scores better. But he is no better on defense or in the clutch. In fact, in the clutch, SAR might be slightly better because I have never seen CWebb in the 4th.

KG- Agreed.

Duncan - Agreed.

So on your list... I ask for your top 5 eastern guys... You gave me: Oneal as being better than Reef. That's a matter of opinion.

The ones who I consider better than Reef in the league.

1. Duncan

2. KG

3. Dirk

4. CWebb

5. REEF

6. Oneal

7. Headcase Wallace.

8. Brand.

9. Walker.

10 Malone.

11. Gasol.

12. Wallace.

[Guest]

PAU GASOL-Defense? where is the D. Someday maybe but not today."

He's younger and has so much potential and he

already is getting 22PPG 8RPG and over 2 blocks

a game and is shooting 63% and the defense is

a working progress.

" Is he a star player, one who can carry a team,

be a force?YES."

Then why are we still such a bad team?He hasn't

carried us and he never got Vancouver more than

22 wins.

"

RASHEED WALLACE-Superior talent but, and this

is a huge but, his attitude(on and off the court)

put him behind SAR."

Because you a biased Hawk fan that is why.Most

other fans don't see it this way.

"Your comparison of SAR and HOWARD says all

that needs to be said of your knowledge of talent."

Why is that?

They both overpaid.They will get you but 18/8-20/8

but they don't win.And after seeing Howard [censored]

slap Reef around the other day I have to wonder

if Reef is really that much better.

"JERMAINE ONEAL-Obviously you obtain your

opinions from preseason magazines. They all

where in love with Oneal.But what has he done.

Really, tell me."

Well he has made the playoffs,and is more talented

in blocking more shots/more rebounds/and can play PF

or C.While Reef scores a small one basket more a game.

Shareef is a third option type of player.Not as good

as some people want to believe.end of story.

[Guest]

If he can't be stoped how come he doesn't

take over in the 4th?he just likes to pass

up open shots to Email in double teams

like the Raptors game.

"Malone. How many 0 fors have you ever

seen Shareef put up. In his hey day, Malone

was the man... BUT NOT NOW."

One game?He only played 15 minutes

"Walker. Come on, he's a junk player who

really plays no defense and doesn't rebound

as well as SAR."

9.0 to 8.8 really big difference.lol

"Gasol. Please. That's funny. Gasol doesn't

have the true size and Reef executed Gasol

head to head last yr."

A 7 footer isn't true size but a 6'9 guy is?

"Wallace. Wallace has always been a good player. But Wallace has also been a head case."

Wallace still shoots basically the same as Reef.You

gunna punish Wallace cause he can do more different

things on the court than Reef can do?

Reef detroy Brand?

http://www.nba.com/games/20011105/ATLLAC/boxscore.html

2-14

Reef played better the second game but reef hardly

killed him.

"Oneal. Did you notice that ONeal just became a 20 ppg player. It took Jalen Leaving and Reggie Declining and ONeal getting about 100 shots per game"

WHat?Jermaine shoots at a higher % than Reef did

last year.

Looking at your list,I gota tell ya....Reef is the only

one other than Brand(Who took the Clippers to more

wins than Shareef did us last year)and Gasol are the

only ones that haven't won.

Ben Wallace/Rasheed Wallace/Karl Malone have

played in important playoff games and produced

while Reef has put up 20/9 in meaningless games.

You can't seem to get pasted that part.When Reef

does something in games that matter we will talk.

Gasol is was only a freakin rookie last year and he

still nearly matched Reef's numbers and had a better

rookie season than Reef had.Reef hasn't improved

his game since his second year in the league.

[BIGBIRD]

ONEAL-Age 24

GMS FG% STL BLK REB ASST PTS

367 .473 .35 1.52 6.1 .8 9.0

SAR-Age 25

GMS FG% STL BLK REB ASST PTS

456 .464 1.4 1.0 8.3 2.9 20.8

People think because he suddenly puts up numbers that ONEAL is so young and has so much potential.

Truth is he is one year younger than SAR. So maybe SAR is still improving. Maybe ONEAL has reached his. Even if you just compare the last two years SAR comes out on top.

[Guest]

How has Reef improved?Nothing has got better

over the last few years.In fact,he has his best

rebounding season like 3 years ago and his best

scoring 4 years ago.

Don't you think it's alittle unfair to add the stats

of of a guy that sat on the bench for Portland at

20 years old?Talk about biased.

[Guest]

Reef is just no scrub.I was just hoping that he

was more of a difference maker than he really

is.He is simply not going to be the reason you

win.Guess I just had high expectations.

We could have really used him in the 4th last

night but he did nothing.

[swolehawk2]

Tell me how many touches Reef had in the 4th...Lon didn't run plays for Reef...he did for Dog...Reef has hit tons of big shots in the 4th....how soon we forget.