Childress in hindsight???

[Sothron]

Where did I bash Zaza? I like the guy. He's a great backup center. That's the key of course: backup. He's not a real starter and we all know it. Biedrins would certainly have been better in retrospect on our team than Childress.

[Diesel]

It's bashing him to pigeon hole him into the BU C position....

However..

Among Eastern Centers:

He's 5th in rebounds.

He's 6th in scoring.

He's 4th in assists.

Why would you want to limit that guy to being a BU?

Especially when he's only 22 years old!!

[Traceman]

First of all, I think it is CLEAR that Chillz is a better player than Biedrins RIGHT NOW. Biedrins has the POTENTIAL to get better but so far, all he is proven is that he is not good enough to get minutes from Adonal Foyle on a TERRIBLE team. Adonal Foyle was the only Center he had to battle for minutes and yet he played less than 15 mpg last year. And Foyle SUCKS! Foyle averaged 4.5 ppg, 5.5 rbg and 1.6 bpg. Zaza average 11.7 ppg, 7.9 rbg and .5 bpg. Why do you think Biedrins would have gotten more PT behind Zaza (let alone STARTED ahead of him) when he couldn't get minutes behind a lesser player in Foyle?

As for Chillz, he had to fight for minutes at SG and SF with JJ, Smoove, Marvin, Al and Salim and he STILL managed to play more than TWICE as many minutes as Biedrins last year.

Bottom line, even with what we know now, I wouldn't even CONSIDER trading Chillz straight up for Biedrins.

[Sothron]

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First of all, I think it is CLEAR that Chillz is a better player than Biedrins RIGHT NOW. Biedrins has the POTENTIAL to get better but so far, all he is proven is that he is not good enough to get minutes from Adonal Foyle on a TERRIBLE team. Adonal Foyle was the only Center he had to battle for minutes and yet he played less than 15 mpg last year. And Foyle SUCKS! Foyle averaged 4.5 ppg, 5.5 rbg and 1.6 bpg. Zaza average 11.7 ppg, 7.9 rbg and .5 bpg. Why do you think Biedrins would have gotten more PT behind Zaza (let alone STARTED ahead of him) when he couldn't get minutes behind a lesser player in Foyle?

As for Chillz, he had to fight for minutes at SG and SF with JJ, Smoove, Marvin, Al and Salim and he STILL managed to play more than TWICE as many minutes as Biedrins last year.

Bottom line, even with what we know now, I wouldn't even CONSIDER trading Chillz straight up for Biedrins.

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Funny that no GS fan would even CONSIDER trading Biedrins straight up for Chill. Nor do I blame them.

GS has to start Foyle to justify the insane contract they gave him. Mullin has to justify playing him to keep his own job. That is the only reason why Biedrins doesn't get more minutes. Go to a GS board and ask the fans there who see the kid play more than we do and they will tell you the same thing.

[Traceman]

Biedrins is nothing but potential while Chillz has PROVEN that he can be a significant contributor. GS drafted a Center when they needed a SF and Ronnie Brewer was still on the board (I think they will regret that). The Center they drafted was disappointing at the Pre-Draft Combine, he was disappointing in workouts and he was disappointing in their summer league yet they gambled on him because Biedrins has not convinced them that he can get the job done as Foyle's BACKUP! Biedrins is a poor man's Tyson Chandler at this point who shoot's WORSE free throws.

I'm not saying the guy will never be good, MAYBE he will. But saying that he is better than Chillz is crazy in my opinion. Let GS keep him - I'll take Chillz all day.

[Sothron]

I'm not sure where I said he was better than Chill RIGHT NOW but consider Biedrins is younger than even Josh Smith and he's a big man who as a rule don't hit their stride until 26...yeah, looking back on it, we absolutely should have taken Biedrins and groom him.

[Traceman]

when GS is not even sure this guy will be in their rotation. It is certainly too early to call him a bust but can he at least earn time on the court behind ADONAL FOYLE (Good Grief!) before we say that it was a mistake to draft Chillz ahead of him?

In fact, I think an argument can be made that GS made a mistake on passing on such big men as Robert Swift, Al Jefferson, David Harrison and Anderson Varejao to take Biedrins. All four have done more than he has up until this point. DO all of those guys not have upside as well? Why will Biedrins necessarily be better than ANY of those guys?

[Sothron]

Again, the only reason he's not getting more minutes in GS is because Chris Mullin their GM put his rep on the line to resign Foyle and as a result he has to start him. It happens all the time in sports.

We have seen the best Chill can do. He's not going to get appreciably better from here on out. Biedrins OTOH is younger than Josh Smith and still has a higher ceiling. If we right now had the choice of dumping Childress to get a young big with potential I would do that without question. Childress will never start for this team. Any young big man with a higher ceiling than Zaza (such as Biedrins) is worth more to us than a bench player.

[Traceman]

First of all, how is Mullin going to lose his rep because a player HE drafted in the TOP TEN plays his way into the lineup? I would think he would be HAPPY if Foyle became Biedrins' backup due to Biedrins outplaying him.

Second, as for Chillz, we haven't even seen CLOSE to what he can and will do. As he gets stronger - his only real weakness for the type of game he plays - he is going to be a terrific all court player. Whether or not he ever starts for us, he will always be a valuable member of the rotation. Besides, he COULD start for us some day. For instance, what if BK were able to trade Smoove, Al and Lue for Gilbert Arenas/filler (I'd do that in a heartbeat) or for Jermaine O'Neal or another young star. Chillz would certainly be a critical memeber of the rotation after a deal like that even if he didn't start.

Finally, I completely disagree with the following statement:

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Any young big man with a higher ceiling than Zaza (such as Biedrins) is worth more to us than a bench player.

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A "higher ceiling" certainly doesn't equal a better or more valuable player. Tyson Chandler had a "higher ceiling" than Elton Brand. Kwame Brown had a "higher ceiling" than Pau Gasol. Stromile Swift had a "higher ceiling" than Reef. Jared Jefferies had a "higher ceiling" than Tayshaun Prince.

Bottom line, we have enough developmental players in Smoove, Marvin, Chillz, Zaza, Shelden, Salim, Solomon Jones and Ivey. We need vets who have PROVEN that they can play. The last thing we need is amother guy who has done nothing but who has "upside."

[Sothron]

KG had a "higher ceiling" and he only went 5th, McGrady had a "higher ceiling", Kobe had a "higher ceiling"...trust me, if you want to swap tit for tat I can do it all night long.

I don't think we would disagree that Biedrins on OUR team and not a badly run franchise in GS would either start or get significant minutes at this point. Chill on this team right now will NEVER start for us. Biedrins as either a starter or about to become one (my personal guess is that he would be starting at this point in his career for us) is worth more than a role player off the bench.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. And btw, I would love to trade some of our young guys for players like O'Neal or possibly Arenas. I also think the Bulls were insanely stupid for trading Brand, a proven 20/10 player for Chandler whose high school rep (if you remember back that far) was that even back then he had almost zero offense besides putbacks, tipins and wide open dunks.

Funny how that never changed.

[mudderfudder77]

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I also think the Bulls were insanely stupid for trading Brand, a proven 20/10 player for Chandler whose high school rep (if you remember back that far) was that even back then he had almost zero offense besides putbacks, tipins and wide open dunks.

Funny how that never changed.

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Trading Brand for Chandler - utter stupidity (even if his agent did tell Krause he was going to ask for a trade)

The rest of that is patently false. Chandler had serious offensive game in high school, including a good shot out to high school 3. His offense regressed every single year he has been in the pros. He was a "KG" type in high school who didn't put in the work or the time to imporve his offensive game. The reason Krause wanted Chandler and Curry was because Chandler was capable playing on the outside and Curry needed to be camped in the lane.

Chanbdlers offense did change when he got to the pros - it got suckier every year. First he lost his jumpshot (developed a really ugly hitch that wasn't there in high school) and then he lost the ability to hit a free throw.

[Traceman]

guys! All 3 of those guys were going to be VERY good players in the WORST CASE scenario at some point. Maybe not All Stars but certainly good. I would throw Biedrins in with guys like Chris Wilcox, Eddie Griffin, Desagana Diop and Al Jefferson. All of those guys could end up being very good but none were ever SURE things.

Us calling GS a "badly run franchise" at this point is definitely the pot calling the kettle black. When did we all of a sudden develop a rep for being a well run franchise?

I agree that Biedrins would likely get minutes on this team as Zaza's BACKUP but Chillz played 30 mpg last year and I don't think Biedrins would have played anywhere NEAR that many for us last year. He likely would have got the same 15 mpg or so that he got in GS last year.

I don't dislike Biedrins, I think he COULD become a solid player in this league but I don't think he is as good as Chillz now and I don't see anything in his game that makes think he will EVER be better. I guess we can revisit this discussion in a couple of years. It should be fun to see how they turn out.

[Sothron]

Biedrins came into the league IIRC as the youngest player ever drafted. Add in the fact he's a Euro player and a Euro big man who actually wants to play inside of course people are not going to give him that same kind of perceived ceiling. I don't think anyone was calling McGrady or Stoudamire or a slew of those guys the next great "X" as well.

As you said, we'll see. I don't see Childress getting any appreciably better from what we see now whereas I see Biedrins climbing up. Time will tell.