Ownership viewpoint.

[exodus]

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If the person in charge of entertainment tells you they want to make Rosie O'Donnell a cheerleader

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then you fire him.

Do you really think the owners can come to a consensus about who to draft? Just look at the way this board is divided over 3 quality pg prospects in this years draft.

And even if the owners could come to a consensus it doesn't matter because they hired a GM specifically to make the basketball decisions. That is his job.

[AHF]

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Simple question. Two years ago when we clearly needed a point guard. I'm not talking hindsight either. When your GM says he's picking another SF in Marvin Williams and you strongly belive we need a PG you reply to his e-mail saying I feel we need a point but if you want Marvin okay. Are you phookin kidding me. When it's your business unless you are old and ready to retire there is no way you just let some guy make these important decision unchallenged. If the person in charge of entertainment tells you they want to make Rosie O'Donnell a cheerleader are you just gonna go duh, okay.

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What you are being told is that Chills is your SG, Smoove is a developing, raw forward and Marvin could play either SF or PF and is the best player in the draft.

Other experts agree that he is the best player in the draft.

Since your team has no proven talent, it is not akin to making Rosseane a cheerleader to accept your GM's recommendation to take Marvin and ultimately trade Harrington away (good decision not to build around Al incidently).

It wasn't that terrible a decision-making process, IMO, even though it has had very bad consequences for our franchise.

Once the following things happened it came to look indefensible:

* Marvin didn't pan out to be a superstar (he still has time to improve his standing);

* Paul and Deron ended up much better than expected;

* The Hawks signed Joe Johnson which meant that we suddenly had a huge minutes crunch

If Marvin would have developed into a better player than either Paul or Deron we would not be regretting the pick like we do - even if we still had the 3 headed backup PG monster we have. The fundamental problem is that the "BPA" didn't turn out to be the BPA.

That said, I don't blame the ownership for authorizing a team without a star to take the guy rated the No. 1 long-term prospect in the draft by most scouts.

The Shelden promise is the thing I can't understand from a decision-making standpoint.

[AHF]

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I wanted some additional protection on the pick, too. However, do you burn down your house because your roomate chose a bad color of paint for the kitchen? No.

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Its more like trying to evict your roomates because you found out they decided to spend a ton of money on internet, phone, and cable bills on crap you don't need and want you to pay for it. Sure maybe no reasonable, but its not like a bad color in the kitchen. Belkin certainly has beef and he was not left with any other options after the JJ incident but to try and take over the company.

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WHAT? His only option after the JJ trade (which has not been a bad trade for us at all to date) was to break up the company and thrust the team into years of litigation? What??

How in the world are we better off that Belkin decided to drag the team through the mud the last few years resulting in the team operating with depleted capital, long-term risk for the ownership and legal restrictions on contracts and spending compared to simply living up to the contract, doing the deal, and then trying to work with your partners to improve the team.

In the grant scheme of things, the JJ trade is not a colossal mistake by any stretch of the imagination.

For example, it is not nearly as bad as the Celtics trade for Sebastian Telfair. Would it be worth it to Celtics fans to be able to go back in time and thrust their team into years of crippling litigation to prevent that trade from happening? HELL NO!

(And note: the trade happened anyway - what was accomplished as far as improving the team?).

[AmishBoy]

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then you fire him.

Do you really think the owners can come to a consensus about who to draft? Just look at the way this board is divided over 3 quality pg prospects in this years draft.

And even if the owners could come to a consensus it doesn't matter because they hired a GM specifically to make the basketball decisions. That is his job.

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They should be able to come to a consensus since they agreed to be a ownership group. For a group of people to say we can't agree to do something so we should simply do nothing is retarded.

[AmishBoy]

If that is the argument being made and I'm convinced then I okay the deal, thus making me responsible as well. The point is that I make my input. The draft is a building block of every team, especially a lottery pick. If you're not involved in that decision why even own the team. How many more important decision are going to come up regarding the team? Your players are the very substance of your team. There is nothing more important as they are your product.

[exodus]

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They should be able to come to a consensus since they agreed to be a ownership group

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They agreed to the contract to buy the franchise and look how that worked out.

Everyone has opinions and everyone thinks they are right. What are they supposed to do on draft night, take a vote amongst the owners to determine who to pick?

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For a group of people to say we can't agree to do something so we should simply do nothing is retarded.

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They didn't decide to do nothing. They decided to let a basketball "expert" make the basketball decisions.

Why do you think Toronto hired Colangelo? Do you think they hired him to rubber stamp the owners basketball decisions?

[AmishBoy]

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They agreed to the contract to buy the franchise and look how that worked out.

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Don't get me wrong, Belkin was dead wrong for the way he is going about his business but he wasn't wrong for questioning BK's decision. I don't believe you give a GM free reign like this. If they had agreed with Belkin our pick would probably have more protection on it, though it may not matter. At least is seems he questioned it.

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Why do you think Toronto hired Colangelo? Do you think they hired him to rubber stamp the owners basketball decisions?

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No, they rubber stamp his decisions when it comes to things of such importance.

[AHF]

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WHAT? His only option after the JJ trade (which has not been a bad trade for us at all to date) was to break up the company and thrust the team into years of litigation? What??

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For him it was. If he ever wanted to have an influence with the Hawks he basically had to try and take over the whole team. They took his position away (governor) and basically left him completely powerless. How would you like to invest a good percentage of your net worth into something you assumed you would have some control over to only find out that someone took that power away?

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They only did that after he tried to violate the ownership agreement and take total control of the team. Nothing was taken away from Belkin until he decided to pull his power play. He had everything he negotiated as part of the ownership group. He had a 1/3 vote. He exercised his vote. It just came out against him. That is exactly the extent of his power. Nothing was taken away from him by the rest of the ASG.

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I am certain you wouldn't like that especially if you feel the people overtaking your power were incompetant. I am not saying what he did with his power as governor was right or wrong, I am just saying what Belkin has been going through. He made a shrewd move and it might end up paying off for him.

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He made a shrewd move that screwed every Hawks fan in the nation. It WILL end up paying off for him (either financially or in terms of ownership interest) but will have hurt the team and the fanbase in the interim.

Why should I applaud a move that lines Belkin's pockets at the expense of the fans?

It was a disaster that would have been avoided by anyone actually willing to be a partner. There is a reason there are a lot of ownership groups and this is the only time in the history of sports we have seen a power play disaster like this.

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How in the world are we better off that Belkin decided to drag the team through the mud the last few years resulting in the team operating with depleted capital, long-term risk for the ownership and legal restrictions on contracts and spending compared to simply living up to the contract, doing the deal, and then trying to work with your partners to improve the team.

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Dude I never said anything close to that or even anything that would remotely lead you to conclude that. Thats pretty odd of you to go around sticking words in someone's mouth.

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I guess I am confused. The inevitable result of Belkin's power play was years of confrontation. How is that a good move or an inevitable one except from the persepctive of Belkin's finances?

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In the grant scheme of things, the JJ trade is not a colossal mistake by any stretch of the imagination.

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No, but the point of my post is it is more like your roomates running up a bill that isn't necessary than just 'picking a different color in the kitchen'. Draft picks aren't color schemes, they are valuable resources that can't be replaced unless you trade an asset for one.

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But the point is that the inevitable result of Belkin's decision to become team dicator was:

(1) breaking up the ownership group leading inevitably to either a buyout or years of litigation (or both);

(2) undermining the GM by reneging on a completed deal;

and

(3) impairing the team's ability to function in the short term if a buyout is quickly reached or the long-term if things screw up like they have.

Other than based on Belkin's finances, how is trading away a single future draft pick worth this?

The Celtics would not go through this to get their pick wasted on Sebastian Telfair back.

The Hawks at least have an All-Star and great guy in exchange.

PLUS, the deal may end up being a clear victory for the Hawks depending on what happens in the draft.

I just don't get how Belkin's decision to overrule the ownership agreement and try to take over the team is justified by the decision to make the JJ deal. Did Belkin really think the ownership agreement that provides for 1/3 votes for each block of the ASG didn't apply to him? If Belkin wanted to own the Hawks he should have bought them. He didn't (he had a 1/3 interest and 1/3 voting right). He knew that. He did this anyway.

I am sorry if I put words in your mouth but I wish we never had to go through this. Belkin's breakup of the ownership was anything but necessary. Negotiate a buyout if you want to go. Don't drag us through the mud in the process with a doomed power play.

[exodus]

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No, they rubber stamp his decisions when it comes to things of such importance.

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Translation?

[AHF]

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This transaction was the perfect opportunity for him to try and gain power.

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I still don't get how grabbing power at the expense of years of dischord and strife for the team makes that a good decision.

Moreover, he has deliberately lengthened the litigation process by opposing immediate review by the Maryland Supreme Court so it isn't like he is trying to get the team as quickly as possible so he can do the right thing for the franchise.

You are 100% right that it is a move to gain power and money.

Given that his signature moves as an owner were:

* Promoting the Marvin Williams pick;

* Opposing the JJ trade by undermining his GM after a deal had been completed;

and

* Reportedly (by several sources including other owners) pushing for lower payroll

I don't know how this makes him the better long-term option. I'll give him a chance to win me over if he wins the battle but ugh. Not much in the way of building trust in anything I've seen so far.

I have no doubt he has made every step in his own self-interest.

If he really wanted the best interests of the Hawks, though, he would push to resolve this litigation instead of extending it. He is extending it because it creates more financial pressure on the rest of the ASG and relieves him of the obligation to pay for operating costs of the team in the meantime.

That isn't in the best long-term interest of the team.

[TroyMcClure]

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Dude I never said anything close to that or even anything that would remotely lead you to conclude that. Thats pretty odd of you to go around sticking words in someone's mouth.

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This is the one issue where a semi-newbie like myself can see that AHF clearly has a problem with Belkin and somehow can't bring himself to play devil's advocate for him, like he often does for other issues/people.

That's not bad. It just shows me AHF is a Hawks fan and has a little fire inside.

[AmishBoy]

The GM shouldn't rubber stamp the decision of the owner. The owner should rubber stamp the decision of the GM especially when it concerns something as important as a lottery pick.

[TroyMcClure]

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Hey I am not talking about whether or not this is good for the Hawks or bad or whatever. I am just trying to give Belkin's view and defend it because I truely think that he has made all these moves with good intention for himself and in the long-run for the Hawks. Yes I know he put the Hawks through all this litigation and so on and so forth, but in Belkin's view and intentions it isn't to make this franchise suffer, but for him to gain control so they can flourish. This is just a case of the ownership viewpoint clearly being different from a fans viewpoint or even an organizational viewpoint, since this thread was titled Ownership Viewpoint I thought I would throw my two cents in.

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Are we the only "Belkin Boys"? Even Walter dislikes Belkin. Not me. I want him to own the hawks in the worst way. If for no other reason, to facilitate change. If Belkin sucks, we as fans, cross that bridge when we come to it. The ASG are as incompetent as any ownership group in sports history. I love the fact that they are losing millions of dollars. That is just about the only good thing coming from this. They have to go. Period. I really don't understand why some people think they will magically become competent. It's not going to happen. We could have Lebron and D-Wade and these guys would find a way to win less than 40 games a year.

[exodus]

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The GM shouldn't rubber stamp the decision of the owner. The owner should rubber stamp the decision of the GM especially when it concerns something as important as a lottery pick.

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And that is what the ASG does. BK makes the decisions and informs the ASG. They rubber stamp it.

From the ownership perspective trades are more important than draft picks because they can involve a much bigger investment.

[AmishBoy]

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From the ownership perspective trades are more important than draft picks because they can involve a much bigger investment.

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Isn't that the truth. Look at the fall out from the JJ trade. Speaking from hindsight this is a trade I still like although having the 11th pick makes the chance of losing our pick this year a little easier to swallow.

[TroyMcClure]

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Are we the only "Belkin Boys"? Even Walter dislikes Belkin. Not me. I want him to own the hawks in the worst way. If for no other reason, to facilitate change. If Belkin sucks, we as fans, cross that bridge when we come to it. The ASG are as incompetent as any ownership group in sports history. I love the fact that they are losing millions of dollars. That is just about the only good thing coming from this. They have to go. Period. I really don't understand why some people think they will magically become competent. It's not going to happen. We could have Lebron and D-Wade and these guys would find a way to win less than 40 games a year.

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People get me confused with liking Belkin and wanting Belkin. I don't like the guy, or dislike him, because I don't have much information on him so I can't really come up with an opinion. I do have an opinion on the ASG and they are flat out morons. So when I talk about the other side (Belkin), I try to get people to understand I only want him to win because that means there would be no more BK (since there will be no more ASG).

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Are we the only "Belkin Boys"? Even Walter dislikes Belkin. Not me. I want him to own the hawks in the worst way. If for no other reason, to facilitate change. If Belkin sucks, we as fans, cross that bridge when we come to it.

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We're on the same page.

[TexasPete]

Your position is mine exactly. I don't know Belkin and nobody here does either. You may think you know Belkin but you don't have any idea. I will bet that if we could all sit down and talk to Belkin about what happened he would convert quite a few people. We know that BK publicly snubbed him. Great, just what has BK ever done for the franchise that inspires trust? What has he ever done for fans, other than ignore them? And call them ignorant?

What has the ASG ever done to prove these guys deserve this team?

I will say this again...if we could all sit down and talk face to face with Belkin there would be numerous people here changing their minds about who should own this team. The ASG has played the victim card ad nauseum and I'm sick of them. They suck. They employ a lousy coach, a lousy GM, and their product is second class. And for this what do they get? The support of many fans on this site.

Don't always believe what you read in the paper, especially the AJC. There are two sides to this story but most fans on this site are convinced there is only one. One sided stories in cases like these are exceedingly rare. I wish a few people on here would just expand their thinking a little. It's not like Mark Cuban owns this team.

[TroyMcClure]

You're giving the second class a bad name! I know you were rubbing elbows with Usher, etc. in your seats. The experience has to be better down there. I don't know if you've read my "Hey ASG, if you want my $60 that bad..." thread, but if you haven't, take a look. Down to the smallest of details, they are careless and don't really have any concern over my "experience". That's the worst part. They even lie about that. I bought the same package with the Braves and it has already exceeded it's value after 1 game. That is a first class organization. Great seats! Lexus Level 329 row 2 seat 8. And there were about 40,000 in the stands. The Hawks put me in nose bleed with a $60 ticket and 2,000 people in the stands. But they're the victim, right?

[TexasPete]

The seats don't make the experience any better. All you get is a better view of futility. These owners have no clue how to enhance the fan experience. It is the same show night after night after night. Nothing ever changes, but in other arenas they make sure that fans don't get tired of the off court entertainment. We also get to watch Knight's insane version of what makes a team. We have a collection of square pegs in round holes...but the ASG thinks he is doing a bang up job.

That's why I'm saying that Belkin can't be worse, he could only be better or just as bad. It doesn't get worse than the ASG. They are incompetant on every level, I can think of nothing they do well. If anybody can think of one thing these guys do well please post and let me know.

[Guest Walter]

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I will say this again...if we could all sit down and talk face to face with Belkin there would be numerous people here changing their minds about who should own this team. The ASG has played the victim card ad nauseum and I'm sick of them. They suck. They employ a lousy coach, a lousy GM, and their product is second class. And for this what do they get? The support of many fans on this site.

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Now that would be awesome. I'm surprised that the AJC hasn't done an article on Belkin and his "position". What an intruiging read. How do we get this "interview" for real.

W