Shelden Williams vs Al Horford

[killa3312]

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Way to put words in my mouth. The point was, high school stats are pointless as hell.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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What has Oden done in the league yet?

It was an insult to compare Wade to Lebron back in 2003.

What happened?

Oden is an overrated on the ball defender and very raw offensively.

Horford could easily be the more complete player next year

Horford: 2

Oden: 0

That's wins in head to head play and championships

[Stinger]

Back to the start of this thread I'll be thrilled if either Sheldon or Horford can play meaningful, productive mintues at the 5. With Pachulia playing quite well re the PER we will be in great shape if these two young guys are battling for minute at 5.

My personal hope is Sheldon EARNS big minutes at 5 and Horford EARNS minutes at 4 and Josh Smith and Marvin Williams EARN minutes at 3 and 4. If all this happens we are in great shape and can look to make trades later to address needs as EARNED MINUTES will dramatically increase the trade values of all the above.

[BusBoyIsBack]

I know it sounds like I hate Shelden recently, but I just hate him being compared to Hoford as far as upside.

I'll take either one over Zaza at C

[bfwolf]

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So since obviously the Amare trade failed, and we inquired about Gasol and Memphis was asking too much, who would you have drafted at #3 since you think the difference between Conley/Law wasn't that great? It would have to be Yi or Horford. Given that information, I don't see how you can be against the Horford pick.

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We are all in the dark about just how hard BK tried to get a Center, what deals he turned down, and what deals ownership turned down. So I can only partially indict BK for not finding a way to get a Center out of all this, but I will fully indict the Hawks entire ownership/management team for this debacle. I stand by my statement that not getting a true quality Center during this offseason makes the offseason a failure.

If I had to make a pick in the draft at #3, I would probably have taken Jeff Green. He's duplicative to our current talent, but I feel Horford is as well, and I think Jeff Green is and will continue to be the better player. My second choice would probably be Yi even though I know nothing about him just because he probably has more home run potential although he's also got very high bust potential. My only other thought on who to take would be to possibly take both Conley AND Law. There's an excellent chance that one of them will end up significantly better than the other, but it's not at all clear which one. Taking both would hedge our chances on making sure we ended up with a quality PG although we would then have to find a way to deal both Lue and AJ (very plausible IMO).

[BusBoyIsBack]

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We are all in the dark about just how hard BK tried to get a Center, what deals he turned down, and what deals ownership turned down. So I can only partially indict BK for not finding a way to get a Center out of all this, but I will fully indict the Hawks entire ownership/management team for this debacle. I stand by my statement that not getting a true quality Center during this offseason makes the offseason a failure.

If I had to make a pick in the draft at #3, I would probably have taken Jeff Green. He's duplicative to our current talent, but I feel Horford is as well, and I think Jeff Green is and will continue to be the better player. My second choice would probably be Yi even though I know nothing about him just because he probably has more home run potential although he's also got very high bust potential. My only other thought on who to take would be to possibly take both Conley AND Law. There's an excellent chance that one of them will end up significantly better than the other, but it's not at all clear which one. Taking both would hedge our chances on making sure we ended up with a quality PG although we would then have to find a way to deal both Lue and AJ (very plausible IMO).

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Jeff Green?????

Well thank goodness you weren't in charge

My goodness that would have been a ridiculous pick

[bfwolf]

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We are all in the dark about just how hard BK tried to get a Center, what deals he turned down, and what deals ownership turned down. So I can only partially indict BK for not finding a way to get a Center out of all this, but I will fully indict the Hawks entire ownership/management team for this debacle. I stand by my statement that not getting a true quality Center during this offseason makes the offseason a failure.

If I had to make a pick in the draft at #3, I would probably have taken Jeff Green. He's duplicative to our current talent, but I feel Horford is as well, and I think Jeff Green is and will continue to be the better player. My second choice would probably be Yi even though I know nothing about him just because he probably has more home run potential although he's also got very high bust potential. My only other thought on who to take would be to possibly take both Conley AND Law. There's an excellent chance that one of them will end up significantly better than the other, but it's not at all clear which one. Taking both would hedge our chances on making sure we ended up with a quality PG although we would then have to find a way to deal both Lue and AJ (very plausible IMO).

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Jeff Green?????

Well thank goodness you weren't in charge

My goodness that would have been a ridiculous pick

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Not anymore ridiculous than Al Horford, a PF on a team that already has a starting PF (Josh Smith) and a backup PF (Shelden Williams). I don't take you too seriously though because you are a poor judge of talent.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Not anymore ridiculous than Al Horford, a PF on a team that already has a starting PF (Josh Smith) and a backup PF (Shelden Williams). I don't take you too seriously though because you are a poor judge of talent.

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I'd say it's pretty ridiculous considering that's the most repetitive position on our entire team

Horford was drafted to play some center.

Green is a 3/4 tweener.

And not even as good as at least two 3/4 tweeners on this team already as a prospect.

You find a not so poor judge of talent that would take Jeff Green that high especially on a team that doesn't need another swingman

Al Horford is harldy as repetitive as that pick considering he's the only legit post player on this team other than Shelden Williams who is considered a role player

[bfwolf]

I believe the idea that Horford can play Center in the NBA is misguided. He is not big enough and does not have the athleticism to overcome his size. He is a pure NBA power forward, a position that we already have filled. I think Jeff Green is a substantially more talented player and I'd rather have him on the team.

[AtLaS]

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I believe the idea that Horford can play Center in the NBA is misguided. He is not big enough and does not have the athleticism to overcome his size. He is a pure NBA power forward, a position that we already have filled. I think Jeff Green is a substantially more talented player and I'd rather have him on the team.

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I've just never been impressed by Green other than his passing. And I think he duplicates us much worse than Horford does. I don't think Horford can play full-time center, but he can definitely give us 15-20 minutes there in the east. The centers in the NBA either suck or are undersized, and Horford can match up with most of them. I guess we'll see what happens.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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I believe the idea that Horford can play Center in the NBA is misguided. He is not big enough and does not have the athleticism to overcome his size. He is a pure NBA power forward, a position that we already have filled. I think Jeff Green is a substantially more talented player and I'd rather have him on the team.

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Jeff Green isn't even more talented than Horford's teammate Corey Brewer.

He is about the 3rd or 4th best player at his position in the draft talent wise and you're saying he's more talented than a guy who was the 3rd to 4th mos talented player in the entire draft?

Wow

He's not big enough. He's one inch shorter than most Centers in the league!

He's not athletic? That's news to me!

These arguments are going nowhere because some of you just don't see Horford's athleticism and seem to think a guy who is one inch shorter despite the lack of talent in the league at the position, is highly problematic.

Somehow that 1 inch is going to make Horford in his career more ineffective than bums like Pachulia

Yeah right!

[bfwolf]

I think the argument that Green duplicates us worse than Horford is reasonable. If I thought that Green and Horford were of equal talent, I'd rather have Horford. But I don't think they are of equal talent, and I do think Horford is duplicative enough that I'd rather have the more talented player.

To me, Jeff Green was this year's version of Brandon Roy, the guy who gets drafted after less talented players despite having no weaknesses in his game and having a monster year in college (Green was Big East POY like Roy was Pac 10 POY). I don't think Green is as good as Roy, but I do think he is the 3rd best player in this draft. I also think Green's stats are better than they look because of Georgetown's slow pace. Green can shoot, has good athleticism, has good size, good post moves, is a good rebounder, good passer, and excellent defender.

Obviously this is just my opinion, and I could be proven wrong. Time will tell.

[bfwolf]

I'm also not sure I buy the argument that Horford can give us 15-20 minutes at Center. I'm not sure what that means. Either he's good enough at Center to play the position or he's not, right? How can a guy be good enough to play the position sometimes? Is the argument that he can play Center when the other team goes small?

[AtLaS]

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I'm also not sure I buy the argument that Horford can give us 15-20 minutes at Center. I'm not sure what that means. Either he's good enough at Center to play the position or he's not, right? How can a guy be good enough to play the position sometimes?

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IMO he'll be able to be a full-time center in 2-3 years, but right now (a rookie at 240) I don't think he could guard someone like Curry/Dwight/Okur etc for the entire game, but could spend significant time there. Against other teams without an offensive center, he'll have no problem guarding them.

I think his transition will be similar to Dwight/Jefferson/Okafor in how they entered the NBA as PFs and played part time at center, but have since added more weight and muscle and have actually become primarily a center. Horford has a great body (no homo LMAO), and will be a manchild in a few years with good training.

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Is the argument that he can play Center when the other team goes small?

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Not at all, Zaza isn't going to play more than 30 minutes MAX, there's still 18 minutes to play at the center position IF Zaza even plays 30 minutes. I'm not giving those minutes to scrub Wright. Unless Solomon takes a HUGE step up, I'm giving those minutes to Horford and still think he'll do a good job there, and better than Zaza. I'm just not sold on Shelden at center until he proves me wrong.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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I'm also not sure I buy the argument that Horford can give us 15-20 minutes at Center. I'm not sure what that means. Either he's good enough at Center to play the position or he's not, right? How can a guy be good enough to play the position sometimes? Is the argument that he can play Center when the other team goes small?

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Sometimes a player has to gain strength/weight to be a more effective player.

Yi has to do it. Wright has to do it. Horford has to do it as well, just not to the extent of a Brandan Wright.

This isn't to say he can't play full time Center, it just would make him a more effective C particularly on the offensive side of the ball where he could use his power/finesse combo to his advantage more

[Traceman]

Horford averaged 13/10/2 in 5 fewer minutes per game and he played on a team where all 5 starters averaged double figures.

[bfwolf]

You've got to adjust for pace.