Shelden Williams vs Al Horford

[cyman3]

I feel like the majority here are ready to give the starting spots to both AL HORFORD and ACIE LAW.

hopefully you guys are right and that Horford and Law are 2 players that we need in the starting lineup to play well.

However, lets not count out 2ND YEAR PRO Shelden Williams.

Are there brave souls on hawksquawk here to claim that WILLIAMS will actually outplay rookie Horford this upcoming season?

just curious.

[Diesel]

If you're talking about the Center position, I think you have to say that Shelden will probably beat Al out. Al is prototypical PF. He knows it, Bk knows it. At the press conference, BK said something to the effect "His game will determine where he plays". Duh!

Anyway, the way that Shelden played down the stretch was an indication that maybe he would hold on to the center position. People talk about Horford being 1 inch taller than Shelden... But the pure facts are these:

Shelden is stronger.

Shelden has better foot work.

Shelden was a better defender in college.

Shelden has more experience.

It will be hard to not see Shelden playing Center (If our Aim is winning).

[AtLaS]

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Shelden is stronger.

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Proof?

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It will be hard to not see Shelden playing Center (If our Aim is winning).

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If Shelden can play center in YOUR opinion, then you are a hypocrite to not think Horford can, it's insane.

[Diesel]

Shelden benched the maximum you can for the 185 lbs during his measurements last year. Everybody who has scouted Shelden talks about his great strength. While Horford maybe be strong, strength is not his main forte. He benched 185 20 times. While that's not the all and end, that's an indicator that while it may not be by much, Shelden has more upperbody strength than Horford.

Secondly, me saying that Shelden is a better Center prospect is not saying Horford can't play Center at all? I'm saying that overall, I think we will find that Horford is better suited for the PF.

[AtLaS]

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Shelden has more upperbody strength than Horford.

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And you think this because he benched 6 more reps in the bench press? This is just more overuse of the combine measurements, and it speaks nothing of leg strength, shoulder strength, back strength, power cleans, etc. Shelden did 6 more reps in bench, that's the only proof.

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Secondly, me saying that Shelden is a better Center prospect is not saying Horford can't play Center at all? I'm saying that overall, I think we will find that Horford is better suited for the PF.

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So even though Shelden is shorter with less reach, less athletic and has a less vertical, he's a better center prospect because he benched 6 more reps in the combine and has 1 more year of experience? OK.

[Diesel]

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Shelden has more upperbody strength than Horford.

And you think this because he benched 6 more reps in the bench press? This is just more overuse of the combine measurements, and it speaks nothing of leg strength, shoulder strength, back strength, power cleans, etc. Shelden did 6 more reps in bench, that's the only proof.

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Yes. to your first question. The second point is irrelevant. I was talking about upperbody strength...

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So even though Shelden is shorter with less reach, less athletic and has a less vertical, he's a better center prospect because he benched 6 more reps in the combine and has 1 more year of experience? OK.

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Shelden dominated the college ranks while Horford was there playing... There was no doubt in college that when somebody talked about the best Center prospects, that Shelden's name automatically came before Horford's. Should i remind you: 2 time defensive player of the year, 1st team all american, and #3 in voting for National Player of the year. These are distinctions that Horford don't have. More importantly, Shelden played much better bigs on a regular basis. IN Horford's senior year, you can count on 1 hand how many NBA quality bigs he played whereas most of the bigs that Shelden played against were drafted.

You see, if you want to compare Shelden vs. Horford, for now, all we can do is compare college careers. You just accused me of using camp measurements too much and that's all you have... Moreover a closer look at those measurements that you have shows:

Shelden has more upperbody strength.

Shelden has better footwork (Lane Agility).

and the things that Horford tested better with (3/4 speed, Standing reach) doesn't really translate to the center position better than what Shelden was better at.

But we will see.

[AtLaS]

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And what proof do you have that Horford is stronger? I got to side with D on this one, Shelden is on par athletically and has been known for defense his whole career.

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Where did I say Horford was stronger? I didn't and my only point is that there is no proof that he is, other than benching 185 lbs 6 more times. It's pure speculation as to which is stronger in anything other than bench press because they are both huge.

[AtLaS]

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You see, if you want to compare Shelden vs. Horford, for now, all we can do is compare college careers.

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Which has nothing to do with them as an NBA prospect.

[atlien]

You forget that one.

[Diesel]

See Atlas,

You ask these questions and disregard the facts. If Shelden would have benched it 20 times more than Horford would that have been enough? For you, i don't think so. IF Shelden went on to bench 300 more pounds than Horford, would that have been enough? I don't think so. The point is you don't want to admit that the proof is already given.

I guess, I can't say that Horford is stronger than Durant then huh?? I mean I guess we have no way of proving it?

[DJlaysitup]

Shelden is stronger and is better and has a seriously hot wife and Horford is fairly strong and is an inch taller and RRRRRRRRRRRRRR We need a real center.

I would take Noah at this point.

[Diesel]

Noah is injured and having surgery.

I think Noah also has some maturity issues. Not that he's immature, but I don't think he takes the game seriouisly. If nothing changes, Noah will let Thomas shine ahead of him and that shouldn't be.

[AtLaS]

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I guess, I can't say that Horford is stronger than Durant then huh?? I mean I guess we have no way of proving it?

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I actually anticipated this response. I'm just saying that I know tons of people who are slightly outbenched by others, and can outperform them in other lifting workouts. It's obvious that Durant isn't as strong as Horford, but with Shelden and Horford it's not. They are both huge, but it's not THAT obvious that Shelden is stronger than Horford just because he did 6 more reps in bench. If I had to guess, I would say Shelden, but even IF he's stronger in other things, he doesn't have such a big advantage that it counters everything in which Horford has him beat.

[Nicholasp27]

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Shelden is stronger and is better and has a seriously hot wife and Horford is fairly strong and is an inch taller and RRRRRRRRRRRRRR We need a real center.

I would take Noah at this point.

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noah played pf and horford center...u have it backwords

[Diesel]

You really have to ask why Noah played PF.

I think because Noah has better defensive footwork. Noah did a tremendous defensive job playing wing on that defense. He blocked more shots than Horford and got more rebounds than Horford. That's no usual in a zone.

If Horford were a little more serious about basketball, I think he'd be a beast in the next few years, but I don't think he takes it seriously. He's not hungry enough. Working out with Ben Wallace might make him hungry or it might make him want to be lead guitarist on a rock band.. we don't know.

[AtLaS]

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He blocked more shots than Horford and got more rebounds than Horford.

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lmao, both of those statements are incorrect.

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If Horford were a little more serious about basketball, I think he'd be a beast in the next few years, but I don't think he takes it seriously.

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When you have nothing else, question a player's desire, it always works.

[Diesel]

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He blocked more shots than Horford and got more rebounds than Horford.

lmao, both of those statements are incorrect.

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Let's see....

Minutes

Noah = 1034. Horford = 1057.

Blocks

Noah = 72. Horford = 70.

Rebounds

Noah = 337. Horford = 360.

So, both statements were not incorrect. But if you consider both championship rules, they are both correct.

Still, it's a strong wing player who can get as many blocks and rebounds as the center in a 2-3 or 2-1-2 zone...

[Diesel]

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If Horford were a little more serious about basketball, I think he'd be a beast in the next few years, but I don't think he takes it seriously.

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I meant Noah right there.

[Guest Walter]

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And what proof do you have that Horford is stronger? I got to side with D on this one, Shelden is on par athletically and has been known for defense his whole career.

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Where did I say Horford was stronger? I didn't and my only point is that there is no proof that he is, other than benching 185 lbs 6 more times. It's pure speculation as to which is stronger in anything other than bench press because they are both huge.

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While Bench Press may not totally indicate overall strength, I can look at SW 20 more lbs and, knowing that while strength doesn't always translate evenly, it generally does, extrapolate that SW is considerably stronger than Horford.

BTW, I'm 34 yo, weigh 196 lbs, and can bench 185 for 14 reps. Just like SW did 6 more than Horford, Horford did 6 more than I. I guess my legs are stronger than Horford's! It isn't all that much if you train.

W

[AtLaS]

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Noah = 72. Horford = 70.

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2 extra blocks in 1000+ minutes is about the same as saying if Noah/Horford played 15 games, Noah would block a total of 1 more shot. That's basically meaningless. But you throw around "Noah blocked more shots" as if he's a superior shotblocker, which is nowhere near true.

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Still, it's a strong wing player who can get as many blocks and rebounds as the center in a 2-3 or 2-1-2 zone...

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Since when did Noah start playing the wing? I guess he was making 3s all year too?