Some SAR trades....

[Guest]

During the finals, the one player I love is Ginobli... he isn't great by any stretch, but I like him.

"

He's one of those slashers I was talking about in the

other thread.Instead of thinking of lost causes like DJ

(as far as anything more than a 9th man goes)or Ira

Newble we need some slashers from the guard position.

[Playmaker0017]

Hots,

I would take Ginobli over both Ira and Dion. Problem is... so would most teams ... including the Spurs.

I would definately prefer a slasher to a jump shooter, depending on our style of play.

We need a "smart" slasher to keep players active when Reef has the ball. Too many people stand around with their thumbs up their collective "you-know-whats" and nothing happens.

Dion can slash, but is also as stupid as they come. I don't know if we want that.

Play.

[Diesel]

My point...

We both agree that PG is a problem.... or at least you said you did.

Well, if that's the case, and PG is the most important offensive position on the floor. How can you reasonably say that Big Dog is totally to blame for our play?

I'd like to see Big Dog and Reef play with Better PG play. If that means we bring in Barry and let JT play OG, so be it. But give us a chance to play this offense with better PG play. Because Really Big dog did what we brought him to do. Score and take the pressure off of Reef. Reef's Shooting Percentage went up because he wasn't doubled as much.

[Guest]

I'm so tired of the argument that "Big Dog did what we brought him here to do." Admittedly, I hadn't really watched and paid attention to Bucks' games over the past few years (really ever). I knew that Glen wasn't a good defender...but I didn't know all the details of why (lack of lateral quickness). I also, mistakenly, assumed that with the numbers he put up, that he could dribble somewhat (he can't) or could get his own shot more often than not (he can't). I think that's probably the biggest disappointment for most atlanta fans...we expected more from him without truly knowing what we were getting, that so much of his notoriety was based on running set plays for him in a halfcourt set...and that could be the problem here. You blame it on the pg position...but really, it's a matter of system and identity. And yes, this has been said before, but if we want to be a half court team, then everyone needs to move more iwthout the ball (Glenn included) and perhaps do more of a SA style of play where JT or another guard taht can dribble (not Dion) bring the ball up, quickly look for an open lane or a lapse in D that's left a cutter open...and if not, dump the ball down to Reef and run from there...and that would require Reef to work more on his passing out of the double team/post. He's gotten better at it...but if that's hwo we're going to play, then it needs to be decided and implemented.

How often does Reef, who has a decent jumpshot (set jumper with a somewhat slow release) play in the high post and try to use cutters to the basket? Sure, JT's assists would go way down...but we'd have an identity. It wouldn't be that "fun" to watch...much like people dont' like the slow down, half court sets of SA...but it just might work...but everyone'd have to buy into it.

Manu's done that, so has Parker. I recall an interveiw with Manu sometime last week...they were asking him how hard it was to go from being "the man" on his French team to having to be a modified role player in SA, with not having the ball in his hands all the time, having to move without the ball and wait for teammates to get him teh ball so he could score...he said it was incredibly difficult, and frustrating at times...but that team won that way, that's how they were built and most effective. I have yet to see Glenn or Dion have that sort of mentality, willing to make that sort of scarifice.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

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I think that's probably the biggest disappointment for most atlanta fans...we expected more from him without truly knowing what we were getting, that so much of his notoriety was based on running set plays for him in a halfcourt set...and that could be the problem here. You blame it on the pg position...but really, it's a matter of system and identity.

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I agree but I don't understand. Here's my comparison. If we had a team that RUN and Gun (like the Clippers). All we do is run and gun.... And we go out and get Tim Duncan and he has a bad year and he puts up Bad Numbers and we don't win.... Do we blame Tim Duncan for not being a Run and Gun PF?

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....amp;o=&vc=1

Check out the past.

In reply to:

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Robinson gives them a solid, mid-range shooter that the team desperately lacked.

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Now check this thread...

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....amp;o=&vc=1

Check out the things I said Specifically:

In reply to:

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I'm not happy about Big Dog's reputation or his lack of interest for Defense...

BUT I'm happy for Reef!!!!

Now, we have a full time threat at Sf. A guy who can hit the midrange Shot. This is Huge. The good Part is that we kept JT, Theo, and SAR!!!!

THEREFORE... No more trade of the days!!!

The Hawks are complete in MY opinion.

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In reply to:

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Big dog is untradable. His contract is the major problem. Unless he comes here and puts up 23 and has the most pleasant work habits he has ever displayed... It will be very difficult to trade him. Those 41 million.

But he's a healthier version of Toni. He has a scoring mentality. He likes Midrange shots. There are so many pluses that we can negate the minuses.

Just hope that he doesn't do like the last guy we got from Milwaukee.

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It's easy to say... Big Dog is the blame. However, Big Dog did what we wanted him to do. He came in as a 2nd scorer to provide a midrange game to the Hawks. You guys talk about him not being able to put the ball on the floor, lack lateral movement, not being a Point Forward.... You all need to give it a rest. He has never been those things before. Why do you expect him to be them now?

I agree when you say it's system. However, we have to be fair and realize that our system is very flawed and the begginings of our flaws come from the PG position. If we had Andre' Miller as our PG.... He would make this system work.... But now of you Dog haters are willing to bet money on that. The reason being is that too many of us here are too obsessed with JT to admit that he shares a large load of the problem. He's not a PG.

[dgreene]

Miller didn't play particularly well this past season. He basically played himself out of the big contract he was looking for. Can the Hawks get him? I love JT and the things he brings to the table, but the current caste of players would probably work better with Miller rather than JT. Or am I just completely clueless and Miller has already been taken off the market one way or another?

It isn't like Miller is an old veteran at the end of his career. He's still a pretty young guy and could be an integral part of future Hawks teams. If he can be obtained.

[Guest]

I'm still a member of the group that think Miller's an outstanding pg...in the right system. He's not Jason Kidd...he's a half court general. I love JT, his enthusiasm and heart...but I don't think a backcourt with the two of them would work due to height problems...but, the more I think about it, I'm not sure. I mean, seriously, what is we resigned JT (at least for this year) and picked up Miller as a fa...it'd be risky...

JT - six years 35-38 million or the one year tender leaving him a FA next year. At that price, if it doesn't work out...that's a tradeable contract in the future.

Sign Miller, now that his value's down, to something more resonable~ 6 years 48 million (his value hasn't completely bottomed out, he's going to want a LT deal...the biggest competition for his services are going to the Jazz...anyone know the status on the foreign pg that they were so happy/excited about signing last year? Is he coming over this year? Has the injury he sustained hindered him at all or has he come all the way back? I believe that was the major reason he dind't come over this past season). BTW - I got the contract number figuring that's it's a solid deal and, though excessive, is what White Chocolate got just two years ago (though salary times ahve changed).

PG - Miller(6-2, 200) /DD/(JT)

SG - JT (6-2, 180) /DJ (resign, vet min) (Ira)

SF - GRob (6-7, 220)/ Ira/CC

PF - Reef/ Hendu

C - Theo/ Nazr (Hendu)

That's 11 Contracts. You throw in our #21 pick (Diaw I'm hoping...can play the swing...plus, we can't draft expecting to get anyone through FAcy...I'm using Miller as a pipe-dream.

I mean, you think about that...and it's a pretty [censored] good half court offensive team. Miller won't require shots...so we're left with the big three playing the 234. Terry provides the outside shot...and you've got guys from 1-4 that can hit them with decent accuracy. It's lacking in athleticism, but that's less important in a half court set. It's really not a bad team except for the height in the backcourt...I might switch JT and Miller on D (esp with Miller's added weight). You've got a defensive stopped/role player off the bench in Ira...and a project in the draft pick.

[Traceman]

but even if McDavid was willing to pay the luxury tax to make it happen, I would be shocked if Miller signed here for the exception.

It is a LOVELY fantasy though. Our starting lineup would be smallish as you set it up but in my fantasy, DJ eventually moves into the starting lineup and JT becomes the best combo guard/6th man in the NBA. I'd be more than willing to sign JT to a 6 yr/$38 million deal to come off the bench and play 32 mpg at PG/SG.

Your starting lineup would be primarily a half court group but taking Dog out and putting DJ at SF would immediately transform the team into a fastbreak team that would be as quick as any from end to end.

Add K Willis with the vet min to bolster the front court off the bench and we would be rolling! Ah, what a fantasy...

[Guest]

Like I said, I love that lineup, that team. I'm starting to agree/think like Diesel on the SAR issue, but with that lineup, who knows. You'd have to "overpay" for Miller to get him, however he was a guy that just one year ago was a "possibility" to garner a max contract...it'll just be that tough to keep him from Utah (I still wish someone posted some info on their "foreign pg to be."

[Traceman]

for Miller at all. I'd do that in a heartbeat! He'll likely get at least that kind of offer from UT and maybe more. I'd STILL take Miller over Bibby despite his mediocre season and Bibby got nearly twice that last offseason. In addition, doesn't Jason Williams have a contract in that salary range?

[Guest]

Oh, I'd take Miller over Bibby for a team's pg any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Miller's actually a pg....Bibby's overrated just like Tony Parker's overrated. Neither are true "pg's," and neither really run the offense. It's somewhat of a fine line...but you compare them to someone like Nash, they're simply not pgs.

That's what I'd want to pay for Miller, maybe slightly more, I'm just afraid of what it'd actually take...just depends on Utah's situation.