The Neccesity of Big Dog.

[Diesel]

Neccesity.

Yes, we need Big Dog.

I've been reading the posts of some of you who have explained that it would be good just to get Big Dog off the books. I've seen lineups with: JT/Diaw/DJ/SAR/Theo.

However, I laugh.

Without Big Dog or some competent scorer, we will SUCK.

[Playmaker0017]

Diesel,

Under what lineup did Big Loaf contribute to the Hawks not "sucking" last year?

Sorry, I don't think we can get much worse. What is strange, is that you continue to avoid the simple fact that the Hawks were a better TEAM without Big Loaf on the floor.

On paper, Big Frog provides you a decent player. Unfortunately, reality contradicts this. Big Loaf disrupts what little chemistry the team has ... obviously.

We need Big Clog as much as we need Rider.

Play.

[Blunt91]

Yes we played better without BigDog but you are forgetting about the game that Jt didn't play and Mike wilkes started for us. We went up to Philly and beat the breaks off them. At one point in the game Big Dog was on fire he even hit a 3point shot with a hand in his faced and the shotclock winding down. My point is that even though Dog is a poor defender he can make up for it on the offensive end if the PG recognizes when to give the ball to him for him to score.

[JaHawk10]

I just don't understand how some of you people think dumping Dog for useless parts makes us better. Now or in the future. Sure the team chemistry might not be all good when he's on the floor, but he's still a good basketball player. Would I like to have better chemistry, more ball movement, stronger defense? [censored] yeah! But i also want my team to score points. That's still the object of the game. He can fill it up, and trading him for the likes of Lamand Murray and NBDL caliber players just won't cut it. I've said it before and i'll say it again. Let's not just make a trade to say "we made a trade". Let's get value for value...

J

[Playmaker0017]

Blunt & JaHawk,

The simple fact is ... talent doesn't translate into wins or extra points.

Look at TEAM USA this year. They were among the elite and couldn't beat anyone. The chemistry wasn't there. The egos were.

Just because Big Joke is good on paper ... doesn't mean we should retain him. I don't think keeping him will translate into wins.

Our bench is the one thing that needs work --- and trading him will allow us to grab a deeper bench.

So, I would trade Big Hog for a bunch of role players... because I think ROLE-PLAYERS is what this team is lacking.

Play.

[TheDude]

Glenn Robinson has alot of talent and is definitely an asset TO THE RIGHT TEAM.. But to our team he is not..

The balance comes in this: Yes, I feel we need to trade Big Dog, but I sure don't think we need to sell ourselves short by trading him for scrubs.

I've been disappointed in the trade offers I see with him included. As much as we don't like him, has has talent and can score and shoot the daylights out. But he doesnt fit with our group of people. But just because he doesn't fit in our group of people doesn't mean we should give him up for peanuts.

I say trade him. But not for crap. We need to look for something that we want out of the deal also.

[dj_me]

that you would not trade one GRob for three decent role players and maybe a first rounder? Sh*t, I would. Newble proved to me that being a star isn't everything. If you want to be in the league, I mean you really want it, then you're going to play your heart out and continue to become better. I'd rather have two Newble's and maybe a Hendu plus a first rounder for the likes of one GRob. It's only logical that we become better.

JT/DD

Diaw/Hansen

DJ/Newble-type/Newble-type

SAR/Hendu/Hendu-type

Theo/Nazr

Plus you have a future first rounder.

[Diesel]

I don't think that there's anyone here or in the Hawks front office that would say that JT is a complete PG or even a Good PG.

If you believe that he is then explain our first round draft pick? A SG/Sf who cannot score well but who passes very well and can handle the ball. He is meant to be a compliment for what JT is lacking. Sure JT gets assists but JT does NOTHING to make our offense run better. He's not a floor General, he doesn't Run the offense.

That being said...

How can you JUDGE Big Dog completely without having seen him play with a good PG? IN Milwaukee Big Dog had a good PG and there he was the type of player who went to Allstar games, put up consistent numbers and was wanted. We celebrated getting him last year because he would be our answer to our lack of offense.

NOW,

You say JUST trade in hopes to go back to offensiveless Hawks. The game will be.. .Everybody double and triple Reef, give Terry Token pressure and you shut down the Hawks.

Who will score?

Diaw? Please.

DJ? Hasn't been a 12 ppg man yet.

Big Dog is a 21 ppg player. That's why he's neccessary. What we must do is fit him into our offense.

[Diesel]

I don't think that there's anyone here or in the Hawks front office that would say that JT is a complete PG or even a Good PG.

If you believe that he is then explain our first round draft pick? A SG/Sf who cannot score well but who passes very well and can handle the ball. He is meant to be a compliment for what JT is lacking. Sure JT gets assists but JT does NOTHING to make our offense run better. He's not a floor General, he doesn't Run the offense.

That being said...

How can you JUDGE Big Dog completely without having seen him play with a good PG? IN Milwaukee Big Dog had a good PG and there he was the type of player who went to Allstar games, put up consistent numbers and was wanted. We celebrated getting him last year because he would be our answer to our lack of offense.

NOW,

You say JUST trade in hopes to go back to offensiveless Hawks. The game will be.. .Everybody double and triple Reef, give Terry Token pressure and you shut down the Hawks.

Who will score?

Diaw? Please.

DJ? Hasn't been a 12 ppg man yet.

Big Dog is a 21 ppg player. That's why he's neccessary. What we must do is fit him into our offense.

[Diesel]

Sadly,

Wilks was merely a ROOKIE PG who had a 10 day contract.

JT has been here 4 years and still don't get it.

I suggest that all these folks who talk about Big Dog's T.O. Look at SAR's T.Os when he was introduced to a PG named JT.

[Diesel]

It's an ongoing cycle.

The longer we have JT, the more we will place the blame on losing to other people.

MY prediction.

After Big dog, the next person to stand in line in the blame game is SAR. SAR will be blamed for the Hawks failing.

Some of you homers need to open your eyes.

I hear a lot about games without Big Dog...

Well, look at this road game without JT?

http://www.nba.com/games/20030129/ATLPHI/boxscore.html

Look...

We're on the road, against a good team, both of our big scorers scored BIG. Even Dion came up big. And our first year PG put up 10 assists against Iverson....

This is what could be. This is what our team is designed to play like. This is the Hawks without JT. Sorry, I only have this one example, but if you want to look at our weakest link.... Big Dog does what he was bring in here to do. IS JT doing his job?

If we're going to make a big offer for our PG, I say we make it to Dre' Miller and watch what happens to this team.

[Traceman]

Even if we didn't resign JT, that is the best we could do. He will get a better offer than that from UT, DEN or even SA (maybe all 3). LAC is NOT going to do a sign and trade taking back more salary than they would be willing to pay Miller themselves unless its for an All Star caliber player.

Our best course of action at this point seems to be to resign JT, keep Dog and hope that Diaw (or someone that we acquire for the veteran's minimum) can be the glue that brings JT and Dog together.

[Playmaker0017]

Deisel,

With Big Load on the team - Reef saw constant double and triple teams.

Load scored mainly through incredible number of shots taken.

The fact of the matter - is you defend Big Load tooth and nail. Your argument isn't completely without merit. We have NOT seen him play with a good PG. So, the question finally arises: Do we keep Big Turd or JT?

We need role players more than we need a guy that breaks chemistry.

Play.

[Playmaker0017]

Blunt91,

You can't point out one instance in which Big Load excelled. One game doesn't make or break a career, a year, a season ... just one game.

You need MULTIPLE instances of this.

I am not a JT cheerleader. Far from it.

I would be rid of both those two, if I could. But, we would need at least one scorer in return.

Reef could get 22-27 PPG, without another threat ... but I don't think we would win.

Play.

[JaHawk10]

All I'm saying is that i wish people would stop thinking we should trade Dog for spare parts. This is a good basketball player, no matter what people think of his game. He can be an asset to some team out there, and i don't like the idea of trading him for lesser value. I can understand the idea of wanting to get better cap room, contracts, etc. for the futue, but I really don't believe thats the way to build a team. You build through quality individuals who can contribute. I have no problem getting a couple of players for Dog who will fill some of his scoring void, defend better, and keep the ball moving on offense. But c'mon, Lamond Murray? Chris Jeffries? Robert Horry? That's just terrible...

J

[Diesel]

With better PGing and offensive structure, I don't think that would be the case. However, I must disagree that SAR saw more Doubles than he saw 2 years ago. Did you watch? [censored], even SAR's Shooting percentage tells the story of what happens when you add another scorer. But with better PG play (mainly running the offense), a real PG can maintain the offense and get everybody involved. At this point, I would say that Rumeal Robinson was a much better PG than JT is.

[jjjohns3]

Wilks was brought up as a PG,last yr. was JT's first full yr. playing the point. If Wilkins had let him play the first yr. he might be an All-Star now.Expert my @$$, obviously you look at stats & what stats do for a player, you're ignorant, you don't wanna get rid of dog even if he doesn't do what we need him to do to win.

[Diesel]

But Wilkens did let JT play PG. His second year, Lon Let JT play PG. Both times, JT failed at the positions. In fact, Wilkens dumb downed the offense to help JT get it. Lon coached simple offenses. IN both cases, JT was benched so that some scrubb could play (Coles, Maloney). Check the history.

I never said not to get rid of Dog.

I said:

1. Don't get rid of Dog for some of these Weak ass trades that I have seen that would only put us in the hole for 5 more years in some cases.

2. Don't get rid of Dog until we have had a chance to see him play with Reef with a good ball handling play maker/Decision maker.

The fact that you would come out and attack me, suggests to me that you never considered anything I said, just BLINDLY defended JT to the death which will be the death of this franchise. I believe we can function if we recognize JT as a SG (ala Iverson) and find a PG to run our high powered offense.

However, the longer we foolishly defend JT as a PG, the longer we fool ourselves. It's good to know that Billy Knight see exactly what's going on and that he's not some of you.

[jjjohns3]

Wilkens didn't let JT{who is a good player} play HIS game,he tried to make him a pure PG. And in his 2nd yr. JT was moved to the 2guard because of injuries,he just so happened to flourish at the 2 and Lon left him there.And I didn't blindly attack you,you have to see that no one here says "Get rid of Dog at any cost" but you continue to defend him as being the player we'll need to get us over the hump,I wan't to see him play with Diaw as well & because of that,I'm willing to give him until next All-Star break.

~Peace

[Diesel]

What Lenny did was try to turn JT into a pure PG. He played him about 26 mpg and had him split time with Coles. In the begginning, it was expected that JT would be the starting PG but JT didn't show the aptitude to play the position. SO we dumbed down the Plays we ran. There was also the problem of having JR on the squad. Not so much his antics, but the fact that he was a player who demanded the ball. JT by nature is a player who would rather defer the ball than to run the offense. This has been his nature as a Guard for the hawks. Weather it be JR, JJ, Toni, or Big Dog, JT has always deferred. He's not a PG.

I agree with you. Lon put JT as SG out of neccessity. Days before he had benched JT so that Matt Maloney could be the PG. JJ really took himself out of the picture by opting for Sonication at the time he did.

JT didn't become a full time PG until 2 seasons ago (Feb). After we linedup DJ as SG and Ira as Sf. He spent all last season as PG. I suspect that after 4 years of playing Gaurd in this league and about 1 season of being a PG for the Hawks, that JT could do better than an undrafted PG on a 10 day contract?

However, we have had a lot of guys who came threw who ran the PG position better than JT:

1. Coles

2. Maloney

3. Knight

4. Vaughn

5. Wilks.

I won't lie. I would take Vaughn again. Especially if 50 million was offered by Denver. I would sign Vaughn and may even trade Nazr for Knight/future first. Or Nazr/Hendu for Knight/Lo.