I KNOW THIS IS OFF TOPIC, BUT IS IT ILLEGAL 2 DOWN

[dimes4life]

LOAD MUSIC. I JUST WANT LIKE 10 DIFFERENT SONGS AND I AM CAUTIOUS ABOUT BEING SUED OR SOMETHING? DOES ANYONE HEAR DOWNLOAD ON A REGULAR BASIS?

[Playmaker0017]

It is "illegal", but I wouldn't expect the record labels to come knocking at your door anytime soon.

Kind of like the bigger fish to fry scenario.

Don't fret.

Play.

[jeddelong]

It is my understanding that they are targeting people who are sharing music on peer to peer services. The music industry recently suggested it would go after the big violaters; however, I read recently on cnnfn that they have targeted people who share as few as six songs. It is a risk to download; however, it appears that the strategy is to scare people from sharing which would ruin peer to peer. It is a travesty that they allow services like Kazza to remain open and free from lawsuits, while individuals are attacked. The service clearly is the main problem, if you are against sharing. Personally, I think sharing has helped the music industry to a certain degree.

[Playmaker0017]

Jedde,

You are right... sales have NOT suffered.

It's BS. The music industry has been raping customers and artists since the dawn of time.

CDs cost far less to produce than tapes... yet, we are charged more.

It is about time we turned the tables on them.

I mean, no one stood in the way of progress when the automobile was invented. No one demanded tribute or repercussions for the horse carriage makers. Sorry, they went out of business.

It is about time that the record companies do the same thing.

Play.

[Lascar78]

"Jedde,

You are right... sales have NOT suffered."

Yeah right. Music sales went down by like 20% last year. A bunch of my friends download, and you can tell me that they can't stop you or that it's not your problem, but it's definitely stealing IMO

Guess what cars also cost thousands less than what they sell them for, but that doesn't give you the right to steal them. Music is different because the product isn't tangible. The reason CD's cost alot is that music companies have ALOT of people working for them, and all their salary as well as the musicians' has to come from music sales.

[Guest]

Sales have suffered so badly...because quite frankly...there

isn't any good music out there.The service effects it some..

but you also have to look at the poor quaility of music.

[Lascar78]

that's also true

[Playmaker0017]

Lascar,

If anything has hurt the sales of music it is:

(1) Lack of disposable income

(2) Poor quality of product

I refuse to believe that downloading really stops people from purchasing cds.

Yes, I understand your "logic" of paying bills and artists. Except that artists make nothing on a sold record, they make pennies and the rest comes from tours. Further, this doesn't explain why one would charge more for a cheaper product (cds vs tapes). It costs less than 2 cents to press a cd, but over a dollar to create a tape. Yet, we get hit with $15 CDs and $8 cassettes. Those savings should be passed to the consumer.

If their sales are declining, they may want to explore internally rather than blaming the internet for theft.

Taxi services and mass transportation thus steal car purchases. Albeit maybe small percentages... but they do nonetheless. Email steals revenue from the post office.

Studios are trying to thwart the future at their own peril. They need to adapt to the times, quit raping the customer and the customer will buy more.

It is simple supply and demand. If they charged less, they would move more product.

Besides, on the theft front, it is my understanding that the letter of the law dictates that unless one is making a profit from distribution then they can do so at their own leisure. While it may be your opinion that it is theft, the law defines it otherwise.

Play.

[Lascar78]

Your analogies are completely irrelevant

"Further, this doesn't explain why one would charge more for a cheaper product (cds vs tapes). It costs less than 2 cents to press a cd, but over a dollar to create a tape. Yet, we get hit with $15 CDs and $8 cassettes. Those savings should be passed to the consumer. "

THAT is called supply and demand. There is a much higher demand for CD's, they are a superior quality product, so they can sell them for more. Production costs are irrelevant.

"Taxi services and mass transportation thus steal car purchases. Albeit maybe small percentages... but they do nonetheless. Email steals revenue from the post office. "

No they are not stealing, they are in competition. Sending an email does not use the post office's services or anything they've made. And you pay to use a cab just like you pay to buy a car. It's your choice if you want to buy or rent something. In the case of music, the analogy would be if you paid each time you downloaded/listened to a song as opposed to having to buy the whole CD. But instead you are stealing the same music. you get the same product on the cd whether you buy or download it.

"Yes, I understand your "logic" of paying bills and artists. Except that artists make nothing on a sold record, they make pennies and the rest comes from tours."

That's not true, they make alot. People say that artists get raped because the labels make alot MORE than the artists (with big labels), but they still get alot. Alot of artists have multi-million dollar deals. On the other hand touring is not that profitable because of the costs associated with living on the road and having to pay to have all the equipment / crew come with you. Alot of them barely break even on tour (even big names), they just do it to get publicity and encourage people to buy their music, and sell Tshirts

"Besides, on the theft front, it is my understanding that the letter of the law dictates that unless one is making a profit from distribution then they can do so at their own leisure. While it may be your opinion that it is theft, the law defines it otherwise. "

You have a seriously flawed understanding of copyright laws. Pick up any CD you've bought and look at the CD case and you'll see "Unauthorized duplication is a violation of application laws", with no mention of profit.

"They need to adapt to the times, quit raping the customer and the customer will buy more. "

That's true. But basically what's happening is everyone is stealing their product and saying, make it cheaper and we'll stop stealing. It may be true but it doesn't make it right

[Playmaker0017]

Lascar,

"THAT is called supply and demand. There is a much higher demand for CD's, they are a superior quality product, so they can sell them for more. Production costs are irrelevant."

Obviously, based on the simple fact that sales dwindled 20% last year, they cannot sell them for more.

"you get the same product on the cd whether you buy or download it."

Aha! Maybe there is something to that. Maybe they ought to offer something more in order to compete with the new, stronger format. "

"That's true. But basically what's happening is everyone is stealing their product and saying, make it cheaper and we'll stop stealing. It may be true but it doesn't make it right."

Right and wrong. Man, that is how things are done. Do yyou think customers can enforce their wills upon conglomerates unless they do things like this? No.

Personally, I don't listen to the music that is out now. I find it to be garbage. I don't buy albums. But, I also feel that to impede on progress and the next evolutionary phase of product is stupid. It is only slowing the inevitable.

My anologies may not have been fluid with our discussion, but in terms of advancements they are. You cannot impinge on the advancement of technology - if you do, you'll be left behind.

But the CD THEORY holds the REAL TRUTH:

The CD theory holds that the music business actually died about twenty years ago. It was revived without anyone knowing it had actually died because compact-disc technology came along and everybody had to replace what they'd bought for the twenty years prior to the advent of the CD.

The music business, this theory acknowledges, is about selling technology as much as music. From mono to stereo to Walkman. It just happens that the next stage of technological development in the music business has largely excluded the music business itself.

The further implication, though, might be the more interesting and painful one: You can't depend on just the music.

Rock and roll is just an anomaly. While for a generation or two it created a go-go industry -- the youthquake -- it is unreasonable to expect that anything so transforming can remain a permanent condition. To a large degree, the music industry is, then, a fluke. A bubble. Finally the bubble burst.

Play.

[cyman3]

i wouldnt know... ive never download music... i dont even know of a Kazaa...

[Lascar78]

Play, I agree with what you're saying that music companies need to update their product and sell directly to the fan through the internet somehow. And there are alot of artists who agree and are doing that, some directly put their mp3s on their website (public enemy is pretty much the leader of that movement)

But what I'm also saying is that doesn't change the fact that until they do, downloaders are still stealing. And I'm not saying don't do it. [censored] I have a bunch of burnt albums and playstation 2 games that other people have burnt for me, but it's still stealing.

Either way it's all good, nobody's going to change their ways after reading our debate...