Hawks Identity

[Swatguy]

There is a reason why Woody was retained. Let me say reason's. But my thoughts are of continuity. But moreso identity.

I know a lot of you guys have problems with Coach, I don't have as many as others. But one thing that is identifiable is he is a tough guy. He has been tried in the fire and "he ain't runnin' ". With the pains of nurturing young guys, he has consistantly prodded these guys to be tougher. To grow up and be men in a man's league.

That has been the teams problem and our (many of us) problem with this team, toughness.

Our best player is tough as nails with a snarl. We are developing inheritedly by acquisition in the case of Al and in teaching. All of these guys have been winners all their lives before they were Hawks. But know is time to mature and Be Winners Here.

So I say, when the sulking and "little boy" pride disappears. We may see what coach has been imploring.

It is what Joe has been saying.

It is what Al is.

It is what Chillz is relentlessly about.

It is what JSmith, Zaza and Marvin needs to understand.

We got a taste of success but the East is improving. Our additions from this point forward needs to be tough minded, tough bodied guys. Like Kelena Azubuike.

I'd like to see our identity like as the Zaza that stood up to the bully, like Joe with "ice-the-veins" taking hearts on the court.

[Supporter]

Wow, this is the post of the year for me

[Swatguy]

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Wow, this is the post of the year for me

calm down grasshopper.

[Zone034life]

So are you implying Woody is a good coach. I beg to differ. On talent alone this roster won 37 games. Woody needs to learn from his mistakes. Until he does this the team will never be consistent. The first step in improving is admitting you made a mistake.

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"The bottom line is this, when I got desperate coming down the home stretch last season I'm the one that shrunk the rotation," Woodson said. "Nobody did that but me. My coaches fought me on it. But I thought it was the right thing for us to do in terms of making a serious run to get that playoff spot. It worked out in our favor, but if I had it to do all over again I wish I would have played [Law] a little bit more. But that's hindsight now."

This is Woody admitting one mistake. Only time will tell if he truely has learned from last season.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

Hopefully he also learned that NBA players have 6 fouls to play.

[Swatguy]

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So are you implying Woody is a good coach. I beg to differ. On talent alone this roster won 37 games. Woody needs to learn from his mistakes. Until he does this the team will never be consistent. The first step in improving is admitting you made a mistake.

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"The bottom line is this, when I got desperate coming down the home stretch last season I'm the one that shrunk the rotation," Woodson said. "Nobody did that but me. My coaches fought me on it. But I thought it was the right thing for us to do in terms of making a serious run to get that playoff spot. It worked out in our favor, but if I had it to do all over again I wish I would have played [Law] a little bit more. But that's hindsight now."

This is Woody admitting one mistake. Only time will tell if he truely has learned from last season.

Woody is a players coach, fair and tough. He will take the blame and not bash his players, publicly. which he could have on numerous times.

As far as Law, he got weak and Woody could not trust him. It was a good call.

[Zone034life]

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So are you implying Woody is a good coach. I beg to differ. On talent alone this roster won 37 games. Woody needs to learn from his mistakes. Until he does this the team will never be consistent. The first step in improving is admitting you made a mistake.

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"The bottom line is this, when I got desperate coming down the home stretch last season I'm the one that shrunk the rotation," Woodson said. "Nobody did that but me. My coaches fought me on it. But I thought it was the right thing for us to do in terms of making a serious run to get that playoff spot. It worked out in our favor, but if I had it to do all over again I wish I would have played [Law] a little bit more. But that's hindsight now."

This is Woody admitting one mistake. Only time will tell if he truely has learned from last season.

Woody is a players coach, fair and tough. He will take the blame and not bash his players, publicly. which he could have on numerous times.

As far as Law, he got weak and Woody could not trust him. It was a good call.

Woody places no confidence in his players. Please spare me with this playoff talk. This team did not play well coming down the stretch. The Hawks making the playoffs were more the rest of the teams(Pacers,Bulls,Nets) not playing consistent basketball. Once in the playoffs it is an entire new start.

Woody got lucky that him not taking his assit. coaches advice payed off and this team slide in the back door to the playoffs.

I would replace "fair and tough" with "hard headed and set in his ways". Many people are like Woody when they get a certain age. Only this team needs him to make a change in order to progress.

[foeteen14]

from what i've seen, woody will let you hang yourself. if you come out and play and show that you got some skill, try your best to improve he'll play you. but when you don't perform, or try your hardest, or wost of all, don't play defense, that's when the floor disappears from under your feet.

btw, the hawks had to make the playoffs last year, could you imagine what it would be like if we didn't. he had to do what he had to do, if you don't see that you're just being spiteful.

[Cwell]

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from what i've seen, woody will let you hang yourself. if you come out and play and show that you got some skill, try your best to improve he'll play you. but when you don't perform, or try your hardest, or wost of all, don't play defense, that's when the floor disappears from under your feet.

btw, the hawks had to make the playoffs last year, could you imagine what it would be like if we didn't. he had to do what he had to do, if you don't see that you're just being spiteful.

oh Like Bibby the guy that hasn't defended a soul in his career, in the playoffs chucking up bricks in transition turning the ball over gets 30+ minutes while Acie gets 12 points playing lockdown defense on the guy that made Bibby his [censored] then he can't get 10 minutes the next game? When Marvin was out and West started he made more impact than Marvin did but the next game he gets 30 seconds. Solo can come in and block a few shots and gets some rebounds and play defense,which is what u expect from a backup big,he doesn't play again for 2 months. Horford outplayed Zaza from the start but it took 13-14 games for Horford to get the starting spot officially. BS if you're not in his "circle of vets" he's pulling u no matter how well u play.

[crimedog]

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So are you implying Woody is a good coach. I beg to differ. On talent alone this roster won 37 games. Woody needs to learn from his mistakes. Until he does this the team will never be consistent. The first step in improving is admitting you made a mistake.

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"The bottom line is this, when I got desperate coming down the home stretch last season I'm the one that shrunk the rotation," Woodson said. "Nobody did that but me. My coaches fought me on it. But I thought it was the right thing for us to do in terms of making a serious run to get that playoff spot. It worked out in our favor, but if I had it to do all over again I wish I would have played [Law] a little bit more. But that's hindsight now."

This is Woody admitting one mistake. Only time will tell if he truely has learned from last season.

Woody is a players coach, fair and tough. He will take the blame and not bash his players, publicly. which he could have on numerous times.

As far as Law, he got weak and Woody could not trust him. It was a good call.

He's a player's coach that has had public spats with half of his players over the years?

If you don't play D he'll yank you? What were Ty Lue and Josh Childress doing on the floor so much?

He's a defensive coach who's teams have never been in the top half of the league in defensive efficiency and usually are in the bottom 5.

He's a player development coach that has seen regression of skills from Salim, Solo, Shelden, and Zaza, oversaw Smith's maturation without instilling fundamentals, allowed Childress to let all of his perimeter skills disappear (along with his previously heralded defense), and saw Marv's development stall.

Look, there are certainly worse coaches than Woody but he doesn't give this team its identity.

Joe is phenomenal but I wouldn't say that he is "tough as nails with a snarl", Joe is one of the more petulant players I've ever seen. He happens to be remarkably talented though.

[foeteen14]

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from what i've seen, woody will let you hang yourself. if you come out and play and show that you got some skill, try your best to improve he'll play you. but when you don't perform, or try your hardest, or wost of all, don't play defense, that's when the floor disappears from under your feet.

btw, the hawks had to make the playoffs last year, could you imagine what it would be like if we didn't. he had to do what he had to do, if you don't see that you're just being spiteful.

oh Like Bibby the guy that hasn't defended a soul in his career, in the playoffs chucking up bricks in transition turning the ball over gets 30+ minutes while Acie gets 12 points playing lockdown defense on the guy that made Bibby his [censored] then he can't get 10 minutes the next game? When Marvin was out and West started he made more impact than Marvin did but the next game he gets 30 seconds. Solo can come in and block a few shots and gets some rebounds and play defense,which is what u expect from a backup big,he doesn't play again for 2 months. Horford outplayed Zaza from the start but it took 13-14 games for Horford to get the starting spot officially. BS if you're not in his "circle of vets" he's pulling u no matter how well u play.

you've gotta be kidding me. mario west? solomon jones? they are nbdl players that didn't deserve the time they got this season. don't get me wrong i hope they develop into decent players, but, right now, they are hardly worth mentioning. there are some things that i don't like about woody, but not playing those guys when his job was on the line is not one of them. OUR coach did the right thing. him still having his job tell you that. on another note... aint it wild that woody is one of the longest tenured coaches in the league right now.

[foeteen14]

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So are you implying Woody is a good coach. I beg to differ. On talent alone this roster won 37 games. Woody needs to learn from his mistakes. Until he does this the team will never be consistent. The first step in improving is admitting you made a mistake.

Quote:

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"The bottom line is this, when I got desperate coming down the home stretch last season I'm the one that shrunk the rotation," Woodson said. "Nobody did that but me. My coaches fought me on it. But I thought it was the right thing for us to do in terms of making a serious run to get that playoff spot. It worked out in our favor, but if I had it to do all over again I wish I would have played [Law] a little bit more. But that's hindsight now."

This is Woody admitting one mistake. Only time will tell if he truely has learned from last season.

Woody is a players coach, fair and tough. He will take the blame and not bash his players, publicly. which he could have on numerous times.

As far as Law, he got weak and Woody could not trust him. It was a good call.

He's a player's coach that has had public spats with half of his players over the years?

If you don't play D he'll yank you? What were Ty Lue and Josh Childress doing on the floor so much?

He's a defensive coach who's teams have never been in the top half of the league in defensive efficiency and usually are in the bottom 5.

He's a player development coach that has seen regression of skills from Salim, Solo, Shelden, and Zaza, oversaw Smith's maturation without instilling fundamentals, allowed Childress to let all of his perimeter skills disappear (along with his previously heralded defense), and saw Marv's development stall.

Look, there are certainly worse coaches than Woody but he doesn't give this team its identity.

Joe is phenomenal but I wouldn't say that he is "tough as nails with a snarl", Joe is one of the more petulant players I've ever seen. He happens to be remarkably talented though.

the man started with zero. it takes time to go from the projects to the suburbs. i'm living proof of it.

[Zone034life]

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from what i've seen, woody will let you hang yourself. if you come out and play and show that you got some skill, try your best to improve he'll play you. but when you don't perform, or try your hardest, or wost of all, don't play defense, that's when the floor disappears from under your feet.

btw, the hawks had to make the playoffs last year, could you imagine what it would be like if we didn't. he had to do what he had to do, if you don't see that you're just being spiteful.

Let you hang yourself? Have you taken a look at how the minutes broke down this season. Woody didn't allow anyone other than JJ, the starters and Chillz to prove themselves. You are making excuses for a man who even admits himself he made mistakes.

How do you account for his assistants wanting him to play Acie more? Woody is bull headed and stuck on his own understanding. Him not developing his bench amounted to 37-45. And you and others are bragging on this as if the man did a have decent job last season.

Watching NBA tv last season even Peter Vescey would comment on how the starters played to many minutes when they would recap the Hawks games. If you don't see that then you're being shortsided.

And I am happy to see another man get outta the hood into the suburbs. But 37-45 is the Zone 3, cleveland avenue, of the NBA. If Woody wants to get this Hawks squad to Buckhead then he needs to change his coaching style now.

[foeteen14]

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from what i've seen, woody will let you hang yourself. if you come out and play and show that you got some skill, try your best to improve he'll play you. but when you don't perform, or try your hardest, or wost of all, don't play defense, that's when the floor disappears from under your feet.

btw, the hawks had to make the playoffs last year, could you imagine what it would be like if we didn't. he had to do what he had to do, if you don't see that you're just being spiteful.

Let you hang yourself? Have you taken a look at how the minutes broke down this season. Woody didn't allow anyone other than JJ, the starters and Chillz to prove themselves. You are making excuses for a man who even admits himself he made mistakes.

How do you account for his assistants wanting him to play Acie more? Woody is bull headed and stuck on his own understanding. Him not developing his bench amounted to 37-45. And you and others are bragging on this as if the man did a have decent job last season.

Watching NBA tv last season even Peter Vescey would comment on how the starters played to many minutes when they would recap the Hawks games. If you don't see that then you're being shortsided.

And I am happy to see another man get outta the hood into the suburbs. But 37-45 is the Zone 3, cleveland avenue, of the NBA. If Woody wants to get this Hawks squad to Buckhead then he needs to change his coaching style now.

i'm just saying, the guys woody had work with on the bench were not good enough to be out on the court consistantly. woodson went eight deep as do a lot of coaches, its not often that the tenth best player on a team gets a lot of playing time. as far as acie is concerned, he was hurt a lot, he was a rookie, we were trying to make the playoffs (regarless of what our record was). i think he will get more playing this year but last year the hawks had to make the playoffs

[EazyRoc]

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from what i've seen, woody will let you hang yourself. if you come out and play and show that you got some skill, try your best to improve he'll play you. but when you don't perform, or try your hardest, or wost of all, don't play defense, that's when the floor disappears from under your feet.

btw, the hawks had to make the playoffs last year, could you imagine what it would be like if we didn't. he had to do what he had to do, if you don't see that you're just being spiteful.

Let you hang yourself? Have you taken a look at how the minutes broke down this season. Woody didn't allow anyone other than JJ, the starters and Chillz to prove themselves. You are making excuses for a man who even admits himself he made mistakes.

How do you account for his assistants wanting him to play Acie more? Woody is bull headed and stuck on his own understanding. Him not developing his bench amounted to 37-45. And you and others are bragging on this as if the man did a have decent job last season.

Watching NBA tv last season even Peter Vescey would comment on how the starters played to many minutes when they would recap the Hawks games. If you don't see that then you're being shortsided.

And I am happy to see another man get outta the hood into the suburbs. But 37-45 is the Zone 3, cleveland avenue, of the NBA. If Woody wants to get this Hawks squad to Buckhead then he needs to change his coaching style now.

If Acie Law would have gave our team a chance to win last year, Mike Woodson would have played him. We needed to win and go to the playoffs, not develop our young players. Our bench is just not skilled enough to get the consistent minutes everyone wanted Woodson to give. Mario West ? Solomon Jones ? Jeremy Richardson ? C'mon man, if the Hawks were to cut them right now, I doubt any of those guys would ever find a team where they would get the PT the Hawks gave them last year. If you think playing those guys would have made the difference between 37 wins and whatever figure you had in mind, you're wrong.

[Cwell]

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from what i've seen, woody will let you hang yourself. if you come out and play and show that you got some skill, try your best to improve he'll play you. but when you don't perform, or try your hardest, or wost of all, don't play defense, that's when the floor disappears from under your feet.

btw, the hawks had to make the playoffs last year, could you imagine what it would be like if we didn't. he had to do what he had to do, if you don't see that you're just being spiteful.

Let you hang yourself? Have you taken a look at how the minutes broke down this season. Woody didn't allow anyone other than JJ, the starters and Chillz to prove themselves. You are making excuses for a man who even admits himself he made mistakes.

How do you account for his assistants wanting him to play Acie more? Woody is bull headed and stuck on his own understanding. Him not developing his bench amounted to 37-45. And you and others are bragging on this as if the man did a have decent job last season.

Watching NBA tv last season even Peter Vescey would comment on how the starters played to many minutes when they would recap the Hawks games. If you don't see that then you're being shortsided.

And I am happy to see another man get outta the hood into the suburbs. But 37-45 is the Zone 3, cleveland avenue, of the NBA. If Woody wants to get this Hawks squad to Buckhead then he needs to change his coaching style now.

If Acie Law would have gave our team a chance to win last year, Mike Woodson would have played him. We needed to win and go to the playoffs, not develop our young players. Our bench is just not skilled enough to get the consistent minutes everyone wanted Woodson to give. Mario West ? Solomon Jones ? Jeremy Richardson ? C'mon man, if the Hawks were to cut them right now, I doubt any of those guys would ever find a team where they would get the PT the Hawks gave them last year. If you think playing those guys would have made the difference between 37 wins and whatever figure you had in mind, you're wrong. we lost games Acie Law was playing well and got pulled from.Woody cost us more games than Law could have.We shouldn't have had to limp into the playoffs if it wasn't for him.

[EazyRoc]

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from what i've seen, woody will let you hang yourself. if you come out and play and show that you got some skill, try your best to improve he'll play you. but when you don't perform, or try your hardest, or wost of all, don't play defense, that's when the floor disappears from under your feet.

btw, the hawks had to make the playoffs last year, could you imagine what it would be like if we didn't. he had to do what he had to do, if you don't see that you're just being spiteful.

Let you hang yourself? Have you taken a look at how the minutes broke down this season. Woody didn't allow anyone other than JJ, the starters and Chillz to prove themselves. You are making excuses for a man who even admits himself he made mistakes.

How do you account for his assistants wanting him to play Acie more? Woody is bull headed and stuck on his own understanding. Him not developing his bench amounted to 37-45. And you and others are bragging on this as if the man did a have decent job last season.

Watching NBA tv last season even Peter Vescey would comment on how the starters played to many minutes when they would recap the Hawks games. If you don't see that then you're being shortsided.

And I am happy to see another man get outta the hood into the suburbs. But 37-45 is the Zone 3, cleveland avenue, of the NBA. If Woody wants to get this Hawks squad to Buckhead then he needs to change his coaching style now.

If Acie Law would have gave our team a chance to win last year, Mike Woodson would have played him. We needed to win and go to the playoffs, not develop our young players. Our bench is just not skilled enough to get the consistent minutes everyone wanted Woodson to give. Mario West ? Solomon Jones ? Jeremy Richardson ? C'mon man, if the Hawks were to cut them right now, I doubt any of those guys would ever find a team where they would get the PT the Hawks gave them last year. If you think playing those guys would have made the difference between 37 wins and whatever figure you had in mind, you're wrong. we lost games Acie Law was playing well and got pulled from.Woody cost us more games than Law could have.We shouldn't have had to limp into the playoffs if it wasn't for him. We did ? Do you have an example ? Are you implying we lost those games because Woody pulled him ?

Look, I'm no Mike Woodson fan. However, you can't blame him for limping into the playoffs. Doc Rivers said it best when everyone was trying to hail him as a "legendary" coach, and he replied that the players did all the work to get where they are at or something along those lines. Bottom line, we limped in the playoffs because our players played like they wanted to limp into the playoffs. Also, there are very few games when what Woody did directly resulted in us losing. Of course, you could come up with a bunch of theories and hypotheticals, but it's the players that play. It's the players that shoot, defend, and rebound. However, whenever they don't do that well, everyone wants to blame Mike Woodson. When we make the playoffs running an 8-man rotation year round, people get mad and call out Mike Woodson because he didn't give a bunch of scrubs some burn. If we would have missed the playoffs this year, people would have whined about not making the playoffs in a weak Eastern Conference. Sometimes people need to let go of their vendettas and just things for what they are.

[Zone034life]

You and foeteen are right. Woody shouldn't have played his bench down the playoff stretch. It was far to late then. But what about when this team was losing 5 or 6 games in a row? What about when the games got out of hand and he didn't put in his bench early enough? What about when he admitted to playing his starters to much only to turn around and do the same thing.

A young, under talented group such as the Hawks bench cannot be thrust into action, they must be developed. Woody didn't develop his bench over the 82 game season in practice or the real games. If he had been incorporating them steadily over the course of the season they would have been more of a threat during the playoff run. Like when Mario started for MW and played fairly well. Woody sent him back to the bench afterward and gave him his usual 30 seconds at the end of quarters. That would have been the perfect time to get Mario comfortable on the floor so he could help this team more.

The reason I bring up Phil Jackson is because when his bench fails they turn and look expecting to be yanked. Only Phil doesn't do it. He makes them work thu there problems. Over an 82 game season guys like Farmar, Vujacic, Turiaf, Walton and the Rad man all got better and helped there team get into and also win in the playoffs.

Whats the difference between Turiaf and Solo?

You don't think Salim could be as good as Vujacic or Farmar?

Richardson may be inexperienced but showed he can shoot just like the Rad man in L.A.

So stop bringing up the playoff run when i'm referring to the entire season where these players should have had on the job training on the floor.

Remember, this team wasn't even a 500. ball club mid season so its not like we were on some great role that the chemistry would have been affected.

37-45 and we had no time to develop a bench? Makes no sense!

[EazyRoc]

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You and foeteen are right. Woody shouldn't have played his bench down the playoff stretch. It was far to late then. But what about when this team was losing 5 or 6 games in a row? What about when the games got out of hand and he didn't put in his bench early enough? What about when he admitted to playing his starters to much only to turn around and do the same thing.

A young, under talented group such as the Hawks bench cannot be thrust into action, they must be developed. Woody didn't develop his bench over the 82 game season in practice or the real games. If he had been incorporating them steadily over the course of the season they would have been more of a threat during the playoff run. Like when Mario started for MW and played fairly well. Woody sent him back to the bench afterward and gave him his usual 30 seconds at the end of quarters. That would have been the perfect time to get Mario comfortable on the floor so he could help this team more.

The reason I bring up Phil Jackson is because when his bench fails they turn and look expecting to be yanked. Only Phil doesn't do it. He makes them work thu there problems. Over an 82 game season guys like Farmar, Vujacic, Turiaf, Walton and the Rad man all got better and helped there team get into and also win in the playoffs.

Whats the difference between Turiaf and Solo?

You don't think Salim could be as good as Vujacic or Farmar?

Richardson may be inexperienced but showed he can shoot just like the Rad man in L.A.

So stop bringing up the playoff run when i'm referring to the entire season where these players should have had on the job training on the floor.

Remember, this team wasn't even a 500. ball club mid season so its not like we were on some great role that the chemistry would have been affected.

37-45 and we had no time to develop a bench? Makes no sense!

I agree that Woodson should have played his bench more during those garbage minutes. Farmar isn't a great player, but at least he has a position. He is a PG, and plays the position decently. Vujajic is a good defender and a good perimeter shooter, so no, I do not think Salim could have been as good as either.

[Zone034life]

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You and foeteen are right. Woody shouldn't have played his bench down the playoff stretch. It was far to late then. But what about when this team was losing 5 or 6 games in a row? What about when the games got out of hand and he didn't put in his bench early enough? What about when he admitted to playing his starters to much only to turn around and do the same thing.

A young, under talented group such as the Hawks bench cannot be thrust into action, they must be developed. Woody didn't develop his bench over the 82 game season in practice or the real games. If he had been incorporating them steadily over the course of the season they would have been more of a threat during the playoff run. Like when Mario started for MW and played fairly well. Woody sent him back to the bench afterward and gave him his usual 30 seconds at the end of quarters. That would have been the perfect time to get Mario comfortable on the floor so he could help this team more.

The reason I bring up Phil Jackson is because when his bench fails they turn and look expecting to be yanked. Only Phil doesn't do it. He makes them work thu there problems. Over an 82 game season guys like Farmar, Vujacic, Turiaf, Walton and the Rad man all got better and helped there team get into and also win in the playoffs.

Whats the difference between Turiaf and Solo?

You don't think Salim could be as good as Vujacic or Farmar?

Richardson may be inexperienced but showed he can shoot just like the Rad man in L.A.

So stop bringing up the playoff run when i'm referring to the entire season where these players should have had on the job training on the floor.

Remember, this team wasn't even a 500. ball club mid season so its not like we were on some great role that the chemistry would have been affected.

37-45 and we had no time to develop a bench? Makes no sense!

I agree that Woodson should have played his bench more during those garbage minutes. Farmar isn't a great player, but at least he has a position. He is a PG, and plays the position decently. Vujajic is a good defender and a good perimeter shooter, so no, I do not think Salim could have been as good as either.

The problem with Salim is that the Hawks tried to make him something he is not, a PG. Salim should have been used like Eddie House, Ben Gorden and Earl Boykins. Farmar never strikes me as the Pg when he is in the game. Either Walton or Vujacic seems to handle the ball more than him. He is a good jump shooter and I believe Salim could play his role on the lakers. I don't believe any player on the Lakers bench would have been developed properly on the Hawks bench.

Salims main problem is his defense IMO.