Is this a Fantasy League Board???

[emeans]

Guys....No disrespect but I think board has been regressed to a Fantasy League Board. It is just too full of bogus unrealistic proposed trades that will never ever happen.

First of all has any member on this board ever....ever proposed a trade that actually happened???. I seriously doubt it!!

Secondly, unless someone is living with the Hawks interim GM or works in his office or is in his brain "Being Billy", why are we trying to play fantasy GM. It is total waste of time and debate because all of these trades are not happening.

Thirdly, are we that bored with this team that we have to make up all kinds of bogus trade scenarios to keep our interest?? WOW!!

Lastly, no one of significant talent really wants to come to the Atlanta Hawks unless we overpay them. Now that is the TRUTH and REALITY of our situation. These stupid fantasy trade proposals are killing me. Also, we are still in limbo with an owner and GM for that matter.

REALITY: The Atlanta Hawks are going to have to build from within the organization until they get some credibility. Credibility is not going to come until our ownership situation gets solved regardless. Absolutely no one wants to come and play in this situation. You guys are proposing trades as if everyone is dying to come to play for the Atlanta Hawks. Some of the names you guys are throwing out would retire before playing here.

Bottom line lets not get too outrageous with our fantasies. Lets talk about realistic Hawks situations and propose things that can be done REALISTICALLY within the organization. These threads are outrageous!!!

[Vol4ever]

I agree this is the worst franchise in the NBA! It has been decimated by Stan Kasten because he has his eye on the Braves, I've been preaching this for at least 10 years.

Even when the Hawks were at their pinnacle with Nique battling the evil Bird and the Celtics did the Hawks sell the place out.

Blame Pete all you want and he did not get the job done. Kasten was the president of the team. Ted just bought the team because they were gonna leave town, his heart was with the Braves.

Phillips is a nice place to go see a game, but the team stinks and there apparently is no basketball people running the Hawks. Why didn't the Hawks give Jerry West the money and let him run the club? BECAUSE that idiot Kasten doesn't want anyone being in total control except himself.

Enough ranting for the day.......................

[Diesel]

Emeans, the point of fact is that our franchise is in a state of Limbo, just like every summer. There's not really any news being made by ownership. We get that same... " a deal will be done Soon". So what's the problem with a little bit of hypothesizing when it comes to our teams personnell? I think that is a common upon every message board that you will ever be on that is affiliated with a team. Every fan wants to see his team better. Every knowledgable fans has an idea of what it would take to make his team better. You think that Boston fans aren't sitting around talking about trades that can be done for Walker? You think Portland fans aren't sitting around discussing is it better to trade Wallace or to Keep him. That's part of the discussion. Sorry if there isn't enough news for you emeans. Really there isn't enough news for us.

You asked the question has anybody ever been right about a trade....

This is just over the past year. Every now and again, that blind squirrell will find a nut you know.

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showthrea...ts&Main=241

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....amp;o=&vc=1

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....amp;o=&vc=1

I would venture to say that every major trade that has ever been made has been discussed at one time or another by Hawks fans on these messageboards. Maybe tongue and cheek but discussed non the less.

[mrhonline]

In reply to:

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Guys....No disrespect but I think board has been regressed to a Fantasy League Board. It is just too full of bogus unrealistic proposed trades that will never ever happen.

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Weaseldom - 5/21/03:

In reply to:

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Atlanta trades: SF Glenn Robinson (20.8 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 3.0 apg in 37.5 minutes)

Atlanta receives: SF Terrell Brandon (20.8 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 3.0 apg in 37.5 minutes)

Change in team outlook: -20.8 ppg, -6.6 rpg, and -3.0 apg.

Minnesota trades: SF Terrell Brandon (20.8 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 3.0 apg in 37.5 minutes)

Minnesota receives: SF Glenn Robinson (20.8 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 3.0 apg in 69 games)

Change in team outlook: +20.8 ppg, +6.6 rpg, and +3.0 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Atlanta and Minnesota being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta and Minnesota had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You have been assigned Trade ID number 1038338

Talk about it on the Trade Board

How to use Trade ID: Go to

http://www.realgm.com

Why it works for Minny - with Garnett, GRob would have someone that even he could defer to (I'm not sure he truly respects the games of Reef and JT, thus the shots). He wouldn't be expected to be a leader and the team would be lethal in the halfcourt, having that many shooters. Really, that's the kind of system taht's perfect for GRob.

For us - it's the bag of peanuts that I've said I'd trade GRob for all year. Other trades etc. would definitely be needed, but I think that this would be a fantastic starting point.

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Jaywalker agreed:

In reply to:

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It's the only realistic trade that makes sense for both teams AND might actually happen, IMO...

The only catch is that we don't have a GM in place to make this deal, and we are likely not the only interested party in making a deal with MIN like that.

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Or, how about Jaywalker's column from RealGM several months before the Robinson trade. Take a look at the final five.

In reply to:

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Hawks Looking to Trade

17th April, 2002

I was saving this column for a less active time for the Hawks, like the next eight weeks, but after Pete Babcock’s stint on TV Tuesday night with Bob Rathbun and Mike Glenn, we may as well give it a go right now.

First, some back story.

Last year, we determined that the Hawks were looking to pursue a deal for a 10-12 million dollar young all-star type, the bait being a lottery pick and two existing contracts. We were right on target suggesting it would be Lorenzen Wright and Brevin Knight hitting the road, and we narrowed the decent sampling of candidates down to three players, Keith Van Horn, Gary Payton, and Shareef Abdur-Rahim.

While we listed Van Horn as the most likely target due to his injury history and the Nets futility to that point (before Jason Kidd), Abdur-Rahim was the preferred target. None of us felt that Memphis would turn him loose for that offer, that they would build around Shareef rather than deal him.

We underestimated Memphis desire to deal, a mistake we won’t make again.

Fast forward to Tuesday night and Pete Babcock’s conversation with Rathbun and Glenn.

If you missed it, Babcock has stated, now publicly, that he wishes to pull off another major deal before the draft this year, like the one that hauled in Shareef Abdur-Rahim and the #27 pick in 2001 for Lorenzen Wright, Brevin Knight, and the #3 pick in the 2001 draft (Pau Gasol).

He also stated he wishes this player to play alongside Jason Terry, Theo Ratliff, and Abdur-Rahim. And since he is likely to keep DerMarr Johnson in the backcourt with Terry, that leaves the small forward position to fill.

Of course, Babcock has built the Hawks based on flexibility in talents and roles, giving Lon Kruger the ability to mix and match based on the talent available. And with Abdur-Rahim able to trade roles in some instances with the small forward, one shouldn’t rule out acquiring another player as diverse as Shareef.

This all brings two questions to mind:

1. Who are the Hawks going to try and trade?

and

2. Who are the Hawks going to try and trade for?

Babcock has stated that he would like to combine about 10 million in salaries to go with the 2 first round draft picks owed the Hawks in future drafts to try and bring in his target.

Since he has said that this player would be alongside the aforementioned trio, we can rule out Theo Ratliff and Shareef as possible trade bait.

Among the bench players, Alan Henderson (7 million) and Toni Kukoc (8.8 million) are the highest paid reserves.

Henderson is not likely to be swallowed without one of the core players involved, since his contract runs three more years for about 23 million dollars.

Kukoc, however, sees his contract run out a year before Henderson, and he brings more talents and three championships with him, which makes him the likely principal to move.

To entice a team to let one of their players go to the Hawks and take Kukoc back in return, the Hawks will likely have to include a younger player to go with draft picks.

The most likely candidate is Dion Glover, who carries a cap friendly 1.5 million dollar price tag for an 23 year old player who can already play some serious offense.

So with Kukoc, Glover, and a couple of first rounders to offer, what can the Hawks shop for?

Here is a list of qualified players earning between 9 million and 13 million dollars for the 2002-2003 season.

Jones, MIA 11.2 million

Pierce, BOS 10.6 million

Van Horn, NJ 12 million

Hill/McGrady, ORL 12 million

Iverson, PHL, 12.3 million

Walker, BOS, 12 million

Rose, CHI, 12 million

Ilgauskus, CLE, 12.3 million

Miller, IND, 12 million

Thomas, MIL, 10.75 million

Robinson, MIL, 9.8 million

Allen, MIL, 12.375 million

Sprewell, NYK, 12.375 million

Davis, TOR, 12 million

Carter, TOR, 10.625 million

Nowitzki, DAL, 10.625 million

Van Exel, DAL, 10 million

Finley, DAL, 12 million

McDyess, DEN, 12.6 million

Brandon, MIN, 10.175 million

Duncan, SA, 12 million

Robinson, SA, 10.5 million

Jamison, GS, 10.625 million

Bryant, LA, 12.375 million

Hardaway, PHO, 12.375 million

Marbury, PHO, 12.375 million

Gugliotta, PHO, 10.890 million

Stoudamire, POR, 12.375 million

Divac, SAC, 11.248 million

Baker, SEA, 12.375 million

Quite a list, isn’t it?

Let’s break down the suspects into categories of Untouchable, Possible, and You don’t want them:

Untouchable:

Pierce, McGrady, Iverson, Walker, Allen, Carter, Nowitzki, Finley, Duncan, Bryant, Marbury

Some of these are obvious, as teams in the playoffs and seriously contending aren’t breaking up their core, so that scratches everyone but Marbury, and Phoenix isn’t giving up on him this early.

You don’t want them:

Hill, Ilgauskus, Miller, Brandon, D. Robinson, Hardaway, Gugliotta, Stoudamire, Divac, Baker

Grant Hill is intriguing, but one must believe that his best days are behind him, and they weren’t all that good. Miller, David Robinson, Vlade Divac, and Tom Gugliotta are not in the age group that Babcock is looking for, and Penny Hardaway has had too many injuries and bouts of ineffectiveness to warrant serious money. Damon Stoudamire and Terrell Brandon play the position of Jason Terry, which is all you need to know. Vin Baker is best left out of any discussion.

This leaves…

Possible:

Jones, Van Horn, Rose, Thomas, G. Robinson, Sprewell, Davis, Van Exel, McDyess, Jamison

Not bad, and when we narrow the search down to the positional specifics that Babcock is looking for, we get this list:

Jones, Rose, Thomas, Robinson, Sprewell, McDyess, Jamison, Van Horn

It’s not likely that Jalen Rose is going to go anywhere as he serves as mentor to Chicago’s Kids, Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler, and Tim Thomas is the more popular choice in George Karl’s world to stay in Milwuakee. Keith Van Horn was last year’s winner here, but things have remarkably changed in New Jersey, as you may have heard.

So here are the finalists:

Jones, Robinson, Sprewell, McDyess, Jamison

The skinny on each:

Eddie Jones---

Miami may be looking to unload some salary and get younger in the process, and Jones fits the defensive minded swingman the Hawks are looking for, with three point range to boot. But, he is 30, and not the younger player like Shareef was if Babcock is looking to duplicate his trade from a year before.

Glenn Robinson---

Did somebody say defense? Big Dog sure didn’t and is not the flexible player the Hawks are defined by. He is also not the tough presence the Hawks would be after, though Milwaukee may want to deal him to free up Thomas.

Latrell Sprewell---

A Babcock favorite since the Knicks acquired him, Sprewell does fit the 2-3 position and plays strong, aggressive basketball. However, he is not in the same age range as Abdur-Rahim, being 31, and may not fit the long range plans of the rising Hawks.

Antonio McDyess---

Another Babcock fave, McDyess was asked about by the Hawks this past offseason, but wasn’t interested when then-GM Dan Issel wanted “one of our core players” from the Hawks.

McDyess, while suffering through various injuries in his career, will only be 28 this year, and has All-star caliber talent. He is also versatile like Shareef and a monster on the glass.

Antawn Jamison---

Jamison, 26 this summer, is another versatile player like McDyess and Abdur-Rahim, and is a scorer/rebounder like the other two as well (19.4ppg/8rpg) and is one year removed from an almost 25ppg campaign before succumbing to the wretchedness of Oakland.

Predicted Winner:

Jones, Sprewell, and Robinson (30 next season) would all seem to be too old to grow with the younger core of this team.

McDyess carries questions about his health (80 game in last two seasons total), so there may be a fear factor, especially with Theo Ratliff only having played three games with the Hawks in a season and a half. He can also a free agent after next season, which gives the Hawks little cost certainty as to the seasons beyond 2002-2003.

It’s Jamison that seems to fit the Babcock profile perfectly, being a young scorer that can play small or power forward, has a contract that runs for at least five years (the sixth is his option), and can adjust and grow with the rest of this young core.

Of course, I would never expect Golden State to trade Jamison, but Memphis was anxious to rebuild again last year, as was Chicago when they dealt Elton Brand to the Clippers. Also, Babcock has a good relationship with Garry St. Jean, and has dealt with them before in 1999.

The only other question is when this will all happen? Nothing will occur before the season ends and the lottery and draft order are set. The Hawks still have a chance to land in the top 3, and that might change Babcock’s outlook and leverage considerably.

Sometime between the end of the finals and draft night, we will likely know if anything is going to happen or if the Hawks will simply take their picks and go home.

Jason Walker is wondering if he can place a bet retroactively on whether the Grizzlies will trade Shareef. You can reach him at

jwalkr72@bellsouth.net

or leave a message on the Hawks Front Office Message Board at

http://hawks.realgm.com

.

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[emeans]

I totally respect and agree with a lot of your posts because you are very knowledgaeble of this game and this organization and I totally agree with your assessment of the Glenn Robinson trade.

I like a little fantasy every now and then, but most of the time I like to deal with fact, reality and even rumors that may or may not be true.

But talking all day about a "what if" trade doesn't do it for me, unless it is SUBSTANTIATED by an INSIDE LEAD or a LEGITIMATE RUMOR from the organization or a news agency. I can sit here all day an create "what ifs" with all the players in the league. But again that is more fantasy than reality to me and knowing that this organization is in shambles and will not get a top free agent, it is hard for me to stomach a lot of "what ifs", because it just won't happen this year.

We really need to be focusing on what in the H*&^ll is going on with this new owner. Has anyone got recent news as to why this negotiation hasn't been closed??

Does anyone have any information on what type of coach he likes if he completes this deal?

Does anyone have any information on if he wants to keep Billy as a GM or is he leaning toward scraping everything??

These are the things we need to be discussing. Trades are an after thought with the state we are in because there will not be any significant trades with the Hawks until we get grounded.

[Gray Mule]

The "What if" trade talk is not intended to be what we

want or expect the Hawks to do.

Rather, it is to get an idea of how our fellow Hawksquawk

posters would react if such a trade did happen. Would

we be better off or worse if this trade happened???

This gives others a chance to think and react to the

possibilities, not necessarily what we would actually

do if we were the G.M. of the Hawks.

Many could work -- Many more are just wild enough to

make one wonder, "What if??" Some are so one sided,

there is no way they would ever be considered.

So, some of the posts are pure fantacy. So what! There

is just so much that is actual news and we are hungry

for something to happen. Most are just "Food for thought."

Those you don't care for, skip them and carry on. No one

will mind. We all know there are serious flaws with our

beloved Hawks -- We dream of better times ahead and

hope you do to.

[mrhonline]

I don't think Bily Knight even knows his status with the team over the next few months...This deal has never really been about basketball, which is why there's so little coverage IMO.

Any posts on the status of the sale would be as speculative as the trade ideas, so take your pick.

Although the TB-GR trade does indicate that Knight has the authority to make moves regardless of the status of the sale...