Marvin Back In School @ Unc & Working Out With May

[Admin]

the thing is whatever he is or isn't doing during the offseason doesn't matter because it hasn't shown up on the floor. That's the main thing.

That's total BS. He has gotten better EVERY year. Until he got injured last year he was our most consistent player and our 2nd leading scorer. He is very solid defensively, doesn't get intro trouble on/off the court, and plays within himself and within the offense/defense. The only real knock that you can have against Marvin is that he needs to strengthen his core and his legs and work on his 3pt shot. I'd be shocked if he weren't working on his strength in the gym and you don't need anyone other than someone to toss you the ball to work on your 3pt shot.

[Cwell]

That's total BS. He has gotten better EVERY year. Until he got injured last year he was our most consistent player and our 2nd leading scorer. He is very solid defensively, doesn't get intro trouble on/off the court, and plays within himself and within the offense/defense. The only real knock that you can have against Marvin is that he needs to strengthen his core and his legs and work on his 3pt shot. I'd be shocked if he weren't working on his strength in the gym and you don't need anyone other than someone to toss you the ball to work on your 3pt shot.

my opinion is different. His game isn't any better besides his mid range jumper. He's still no threat. Call it what u want.

[Admin]

my opinion is different. His game isn't any better besides his mid range jumper. He's still no threat. Call it what u want.

Please elaborate, in what ways are his game not any better?

[Diesel]

He didn't play basketball in China, IIRC. It was just a goodwill tour.

And even if he had, it was against weaker competition than Marvin's playing against this summer.

Playing in the Olympics has a minimal impact on a player's offseason improvement. If anything, it increases the chance for injury or late season fatigue.

And one he's absolutely entitled to.

Might as well be on tour with phish... or lugging a chess set from town to town.

Yes, those things are absolutely equivalent. You are absolutely right. :laughing5:

Back to ignore you go...

You need to put me back on ignore because you're living in fantasy land and I'm your daily dose of reality.

And here's the reality.

If you don't think playing in the olympic trails didn't help JJ's game, you're fooling yourself.

When you get to workout with and against the best, it makes you better.

I guarantee that Horf will come back much more improved than Marvin. Marvin may just come back worse than he was..

But like you said...

Back to ignore.

It's funny that you talk about wanting to have a discussion, but you ignore the truth!

[thesheedera]

the thing is whatever he is or isn't doing during the offseason doesn't matter because it hasn't shown up on the floor. That's the main thing.

Well that's a completely different subject - different thread. I'm definitely disappointed with Marvin's career so far, and I've said it plenty of times. But this thread is about is what he's doing this summer and what he did last summer, and he's been getting railed for both for no good reason.

We should be damn glad he's in Chapel Hill. Far better there among people who know basketball rather than hanging out around Philips Arena with the ASG and our incompetent staff.

[Traceman]

How do I know? Marvin TOLD us.

Marvin told us he was playing pick up games until a Hawks's assistant told him to "work on his game".

Pick up games are absolutely NOT "working on your game" :brick wall: . Anybody who played basketball knows this. Only so much can be gained through pick up games, particularly when Marvin received a starting position and all the on court time he could handle after the Harrington trade. MW didn't need a summer of pick up games. He needed a summer of "working on his game". Even he admitted he needed an assistant coach to get him to do so.

Then why is his off-season focus his after basketball career? MW left after one season as a BU. At his current pace of education he will not have a single basketball offseason without spending it at school. He will not spend ONE, SINGLE OFF-SEASON, NOT ONE OFFSEASON without SCHOOL as his primary (full-time) focus. Think about it. With likely 6 semesters of school remaining for him MW will be a professional basketball player alone for the first time in the year 2014! This isn't Horford who has already proven himself both on the college and professional level, who practiced with TEAM USA, and who has maybe 2 years left to get his degree. This is Marvin f***ing Williams who will be into likely his 3rd contract before he's done with school. His PER is meager and his range hasn't improved. And he's a good BASKETBALL professional? Hell no! He's a nice guy, but no professional. He came into the biggest interview OF ANYBODY'S LIFE OUT OF SHAPE despite only having 6 weeks since his last collegiate game. That's "professional". Man pu-leaze.

There isn't a GM in the world that would rather MW play pick up games than "work on his game". There isn't a GM in the world that would rather MW finish a degree that will consume possibly his first EIGHT off-seasons rather than commit to his PROFESSION! Not one.

W

You have GOT to be kidding! What in ANY of that nonsense you posted gives ANY insight regarding what Marvin's and May's workouts consist of? How do you know that he is not working on some of the same things that Fizdale gave him to work on from the previous year? How do you know that he wasn't given some things to work on by the coaching staff this year? The answer is you DON'T!

You bring up Marvin running out of gas at a predraft workout as an 18 year old as a sign of him being nonprofessional? Ridiculous! He was 18 years old! Few young kids are prepared for those situations. Kevin Durant was one of the worst performers at the combine before he was drafted. His performance was beyond pathetic. That doesn't mean that he was unprofessional, it just means that he needed to learn what was expected of him. I'm sure he did just as Marvin obviously did.

Pretending that Marv going to school does not allow him sufficient time to work on his game is also ridiculous. I was a college athlete and I was able to carry MORE than a full load every semester while still having 5 hours+ a day to work on my game. In summer school, Marvin has even more time available than I did. He might have less time to get drunk, smoke weed, chase women and play video games than most of the other young NBA players in his situation but he has ample time to work on his game.

Do you think the NBA players who are not in school are spending any more time working on their games than he is? Most probably aren't spending as much time working on their games as he is. Marvin is in a structured environment where he has access to world class facilities to improve both his game AND his mind. Honestly, I wish Smoove would do the same.

[Admin]

I guarantee that Horf will come back much more improved than Marvin. Marvin may just come back worse than he was..

Is the Dieselputer on the fritz again?

If Marvin is doing the same things he does every offseason and he has improved every year then it stands to reason that he will continue to improve this year.

[Diesel]

Well that's a completely different subject - different thread. I'm definitely disappointed with Marvin's career so far, and I've said it plenty of times. But this thread is about is what he's doing this summer and what he did last summer, and he's been getting railed for both for no good reason.

We should be damn glad he's in Chapel Hill. Far better there among people who know basketball rather than hanging out around Philips Arena with the ASG and our incompetent staff.

Do you think MJ improved more practicing at UNC or at Groves?

I think preparation leads to good play.

[Diesel]

Is the Dieselputer on the fritz again?

If Marvin is doing the same things he does every offseason and he has improved every year then it stands to reason that he will continue to improve this year.

Let's put the dieselputer to work...

tell me, how much as Marvin improved year by year...

If you want to talk stats, let's talk them and let's put them in per 36 values...

[Diesel]

Let's put the dieselputer to work...

tell me, how much as Marvin improved year by year...

If you want to talk stats, let's talk them and let's put them in per 36 values...

Let me start it off...

Since his rookie year...

Marvin's changes per 36 has looked like this:

PPG = +3.0

RPG = -1.1

APG = +0.6

FG% = +2%

3pt% = -14.5%

FTA = 0.6

FT% = +7.5%

Here's the next task...

Do the same for Smoove?

Chilz?

JJ?

[thesheedera]

Do you think MJ improved more practicing at UNC or at Groves?

I think preparation leads to good play.

I think that's like asking "do you think I should choose a Ferrari or a Lamborghini" if I wanted to drive fast.

[Admin]

Let's put the dieselputer to work...

tell me, how much as Marvin improved year by year...

If you want to talk stats, let's talk them and let's put them in per 36 values...

Sure, lets look at his PER rating and compare it to our best player, Joe Johnson.

Marvin

2006 PER = 12.26

2007 PER = 14.53

Difference + 2.27

JJ

2006 PER = 19.56

2007 PER = 17.34

Difference - 2.22

So how is it that Marvin can spend his summer going to school and playing pick up games and JJ can work out with the USA Team and yet Marvin got better and JJ got worse?

A closer look at Marvin's PER numbers reveals that he improved in FG%, FT%, Points per 40 minutes, Rebounds per 40 minutes, True Shooting Percentage, TO, Usage, and Rebound Rate. The only areas that he didn't improve in are Assits per 40 minutes and Assist Ratio.

SEASON	FG%	FT%	P/40	R/40	A/40	TS%	Ast	TO	Usg	Reb	PER

2005-06 	.443	.747	13.7	7.8	1.3	52.3	8.0	10.5	15.3	11.8	12.24

2006-07 	.433	.815	15.4	6.2	2.2	51.0	11.3	11.9	18.5	9.3	12.26

2007-08 	.462	.822	17.1	6.6	2.0	54.0	10.1	9.3	18.6	9.6	14.53[/code]


Your turn.

[Buzzard]

I really did not want to respond to this thread as it is the most moronic statement I think Diesel has ever made. Only exception is the same type of thread he posted last off season....

A: So what if Marvin and May are good friends and they are working out together. Oh yea, Diesel thinks this is bad...

B: So what if Marvin is working out in one the best basketball gyms in the world. Oh yea, Diesel thinks this is bad...

C: So what if Marvin is playing in some pickup games with some of the most talented college players in the world this side of the Olympics. Oh yea, Diesel thinks this is bad...

D: So what if Marvin is going to get his college degree. Oh yea, Diesel thinks this is bad...

Diesel there is not one bad point here, A through D. I really do not understand your gripe with Marvin at all when it comes to his off season routine. Kobe and Shaq would probably still be on the same team garnering rings, if Shaq worked out half as hard in the off season as Marvin does...

[A-town Hawks]

Well, my main problem with Marvin is that he's an underachiever. Him not having love for his job contributes to that. IN the meanwhile, I see guys who we passed on to take Marvin (like CP3 and Deron) and they are filled with passion. To me, Marvin is a waste. We've already poured so much into this guy and all we can say about him is he has a good jump shot... and he may be a good defender... unfortunately, we can't view or quantitate his defense. He's the highest pick this franchise has made and he continuous to have a vanilla game and in the offseason he's not even working out. Not really. Celebrity pick up games is not working out. Marvin needs to work out Acie Law style not baby Fat Sean May Style..

As crazy as Diesel sounds, I have to say I fully agree with him. Its the cliche thing to root for a guy who's getting his degree, and furthering his education thats something that this society endorses. But, when you think about it, Marvin is in the NBA making millions and is in a contract year where he can earn way more money than his current 5.5mil. He should be fully taking advantage of the NBA experience and set out to improve and earn as much money as he can so that he can still support himself after retirement. With the pay he is getting right now does he really need to focus on his degree? Or should he be worried about ceasing the opportunity to make the most he can in the NBA, I mean think about.

If the kid worries about improving his game and motivation to become a player that commands 10mil a year in salaries and does just that, if he handles his money correctly which isnt too hard he can live off of just that and support his future family too. For a kid like marvin who has not been what many of us wanted coming out of UNC, I think he should worry about his game and reaching potential instead of a history degree.

[jhay610]

I really did not want to respond to this thread as it is the most moronic statement I think Diesel has ever made.

Stop right there. It's not even close.

[jhay610]

As crazy as Diesel sounds, I have to say I fully agree with him. Its the cliche thing to root for a guy who's getting his degree, and furthering his education thats something that this society endorses. But, when you think about it, Marvin is in the NBA making millions and is in a contract year where he can earn way more money than his current 5.5mil. He should be fully taking advantage of the NBA experience and set out to improve and earn as much money as he can so that he can still support himself after retirement. With the pay he is getting right now does he really need to focus on his degree? Or should he be worried about ceasing the opportunity to make the most he can in the NBA, I mean think about.

If the kid worries about improving his game and motivation to become a player that commands 10mil a year in salaries and does just that, if he handles his money correctly which isnt too hard he can live off of just that and support his future family too. For a kid like marvin who has not been what many of us wanted coming out of UNC, I think he should worry about his game and reaching potential instead of a history degree.

You've missed the thrust of the counterargument. Most dissenters of the Dieselputer are not arguing for or against the merits of education. What they are arguing is that he has plenty of time to do both, and the fact that he is in a structured environment with impeccable basketball pedigree is a boon to his offseason endeavors.

Trust me, most NBA guys are smoking a lot of weed, wearing out the new NCAA football game, and hitting the club and drinking like fish at night. In between, they play some hoop.

Marvin is doing just fine for himself at UNC.

Edited August 1, 2008 by jhay610

[Buzzard]

Stop right there. It's not even close.

I really think it is. Condemning a player for working out at Chapel Hill and at the same time taking a class or two to achieve his degree is ludicrous. I cannot even fathom how someone sees that as a negative....

[jhay610]

I really think it is. Condemning a player for working out at Chapel Hill and at the same time taking a class or two to achieve his degree is ludicrous. I cannot even fathom how someone sees that as a negative....

While I agree the premise of his argument is absurd, it probably doesn't even make top 5 from Diesel's all-time greats (worsts). At least he has a co-signer on this one (Walt); he's been known to steadfastly argue the whole board with his opinion while being blasted repeatedly with such irrefutables as fact and mathematics. Ask exodus to point you to some of the Dieselputer's high(low)lights. It's astonishing stuff. lol

He's pretty entertaining though.

Edited August 1, 2008 by jhay610

[Diesel]

I really think it is. Condemning a player for working out at Chapel Hill and at the same time taking a class or two to achieve his degree is ludicrous. I cannot even fathom how someone sees that as a negative....

First of all, who said that Marvin was working out... or working on his game.

The most that can be conferred from what was offered is that Marvin is participating in a Pro-AM pick up game there at UNC.

Tell, what part of Marvin's game is he "working on".

I speak in this tone with surity because last year, he did the same thing and he said basically that he didn't get serious about working on his game until the assistant coach called him and told him what to work on.

That's the lack of Focus that I'm talking about.

Marvin should be off somewhere working out with somebody who can help his game.

How is playing pickup games going to help Marvin's game?

[Dsinner]

And how do you know that May is the only guy he's working out with?

If you and Diesel are so sure of his summer workout schedule, please be so kind as to share it with us.

There are dozens and dozens of guys working on their games in the RTP right now. And you assume that Marvin's ONLY working with May?

Because the article didn't mention anyone else?

You're as f*@%ing dense as Diesel.

Well I'm sure there are plenty of top-notch players who play at some point during the year at the Hill. However, I'm willing to bet if he had been practicing with anyone of significance the article would have included that athlete. Do you really think they'd have given May ink over someone currently in the NBA? I mean seriously. Bottom line is Marv is working out with the likes of Sean May and probably no-one much better. It's common sense that had any of those guys you listed in previous posts been practicing with Marv, either Marv would have mentioned them, or the interviewer would have. And if Marv simply failed to mention them than no piece of paper is going to cover-up his real I.Q.

I'm no fan of Marv but I also don't care if he's getting his degree during the offseason. That's his choice as a human-being. However, that doesn't blind me to the fact that he's chosing that over a hundered other things that could be helping his NBA career. Whether you think it's right or wrong it is still a fact, regardless of how you'd like to spin it.