There's no way we don't make the playoffs this year

[GTfan44]

I hear a lot of talk about how the East has so vastly improved, but I really don't see this improvement much at all.

1) Boston is a lock

2) Detroit is a lock

3) Orlando is decent

4) Cleveland always hangs around, not much to say about them

5) Washington plays no defense

6) Toronto's whole season depends on a player who plays 60 games on a good year

7) Philly has improved

Indiana sucks--two best players are Danny Granger and Mike Dunleavy

New Jersey sucks

Chicago is the mystery team which may win a ton of games, but may be a year or two away

Charlotte is not a threat

Milwaukee sucks and has no defense

New York sucks

Miami -- who is their point guard?

So basically, Philly, who was above us last year, improved, and Chicago has improved.

I expect us to finish ahead of Washington if we are healthy and everyone steps us.

#7 in the East this year

[Vol4ever]

I hear a lot of talk about how the East has so vastly improved, but I really don't see this improvement much at all.

1) Boston is a lock

2) Detroit is a lock

3) Orlando is decent

4) Cleveland always hangs around, not much to say about them

5) Washington plays no defense

6) Toronto's whole season depends on a player who plays 60 games on a good year

7) Philly has improved

Indiana sucks--two best players are Danny Granger and Mike Dunleavy

New Jersey sucks

Chicago is the mystery team which may win a ton of games, but may be a year or two away

Charlotte is not a threat

Milwaukee sucks and has no defense

New York sucks

Miami -- who is their point guard?

So basically, Philly, who was above us last year, improved, and Chicago has improved.

I expect us to finish ahead of Washington if we are healthy and everyone steps us.

#7 in the East this year

Well let's hope so, you certainly have a positive attitude. I think it hinges on Bibby, he is a veteran and if he plays well we will be ok.

[BusBoyIsBack]

We heard the same thing last year too.

Hawks got arguably the two best players at their respective positions in the draft that went to the Eastern conference yet people were acting like we didn't add anything.

Although Acie Law didn't have the impact I expected, Horford certainly did.

We have kept the core of the team together that pushed the World Champs to 7 games and the "experts" think we will take a step back this year or that other teams have caught up.

I beg to differ.

Unfortunately the season is so far away

[ATLJA316]

I expect us to finish ahead of Washington if we are healthy and everyone steps us.

Dont forget, Arenas is back. Next to Wade, he's the best guard in our division - he'll win them several games just on his own.

[Cwell]

having Mike Woodson as your coach ends all that on paper BS. we're not a lock to do anything.

[Swish]

Unfortunately the season is so far away

Not so, my man. Oct. 8 and the preseason is just a short few weeks away!

[Lascar78]

Let's really take a look.

Boston, Detroit, Orlando, and Cleveland are locks to be better than us.

Teams that almost definitely will finish ahead of us:

-Washington: Won 6 more games than the hawks without (arguably) their best player all year. They are a lock to finish ahead of us. They scored more than us and allowed less points than us, not sure how they play "no defense".

-Toronto: Won 4 more games than us last year. If JO doesn't work out, they're as good as last year, which is better than us. If JO stays healthy and meshes, they are WAY better than us.

-Philly: was better than us and added one of the very best post players in the league. Again, if he doesn't work out, they are probably a little better than us, if he plays most of the season, they are WAAY better than us and could even contend in the East.

Teams in our ballpark

-Chicago is a mystery indeed. They were the biggest surprise to me last year.They should be a very powerful team in the East but they were a disaster last year. Bear in mind that even a disaster like that was only 4 games back from the hawks. I think that going into the preseason, they are our equals.

-Miami could be good again. Wade is looking like he is 100% back in Beijing. If he can stay healthy he will start getting those calls again and we are all in trouble. He and Marion should get a ton of fast break points. I think Beasley is overrated, but he is still very good and should help balance their offense. They are roughly our equals, although I would possibly give them the edge.

Teams behind us:

-Milwaukee has improved a decent amount and with Redd-Jefferson-Bogut won't be as bad. They'll be aiming for .500. We should be a little better than them but they could beat us.

-Jersey is not that good but with Harris, Carter and Yi, they might push for .500 also.

NCAA teams:

-We should definitely be better than Indy, NY, and Charlotte.

So going by this I have us in the 8-10 range. I'll be optimistic and say 8 seed. Of course all of this is with Woodson at the helm. If we had gotten a real winner, I think we have the talent to be as high as a 4-5 seed.

Edited August 15, 2008 by Lascar78

[Swish]

Dont forget, Arenas is back. Next to Wade, he's the best guard in our division - he'll win them several games just on his own.

That was bold. IMHO JJ is better than Hibachi. Just $0.02...

[HawksBalla]

Teams that almost definitely will finish ahead of us:

-Washington: Won 6 more games than the hawks without (arguably) their best player all year. They are a lock to finish ahead of us. They scored more than us and allowed less points than us, not sure how they play "no defense".

-Toronto: Won 4 more games than us last year. If JO doesn't work out, they're as good as last year, which is better than us. If JO stays healthy and meshes, they are WAY better than us.

-Philly: was better than us and added one of the very best post players in the league. Again, if he doesn't work out, they are probably a little better than us, if he plays most of the season, they are WAAY better than us and could even contend in the East.

I dont think Washington is a lock. Will Butler still have as many touches with Agent Zero back? Will Jamison hold up with so many minutes on the odometer?

If O'Neal isnt as good or gets hurt, I dont think Toronto is a lock. I know Ford was hurt awhile but he still contributed to some wins. And who knows if playing in the Olympics after a postseason will affect Bosh.

Philly does seem like a lock, but you dont know what you'll have with a player coming off an acl tear that barely played last year, plus Miller is also getting old. And they wont be sneaking up on teams anymore.

Honestly though it would be a shock to get the 6 seed.

[Traceman]

Let's really take a look.

Boston, Detroit, Orlando, and Cleveland are locks to be better than us.

Teams that almost definitely will finish ahead of us:

-Washington: Won 6 more games than the hawks without (arguably) their best player all year. They are a lock to finish ahead of us. They scored more than us and allowed less points than us, not sure how they play "no defense".

-Toronto: Won 4 more games than us last year. If JO doesn't work out, they're as good as last year, which is better than us. If JO stays healthy and meshes, they are WAY better than us.

-Philly: was better than us and added one of the very best post players in the league. Again, if he doesn't work out, they are probably a little better than us, if he plays most of the season, they are WAAY better than us and could even contend in the East.

Teams in our ballpark

-Chicago is a mystery indeed. They were the biggest surprise to me last year.They should be a very powerful team in the East but they were a disaster last year. Bear in mind that even a disaster like that was only 4 games back from the hawks. I think that going into the preseason, they are our equals.

-Miami could be good again. Wade is looking like he is 100% back in Beijing. If he can stay healthy he will start getting those calls again and we are all in trouble. He and Marion should get a ton of fast break points. I think Beasley is overrated, but he is still very good and should help balance their offense. They are roughly our equals, although I would possibly give them the edge.

Teams behind us:

-Milwaukee has improved a decent amount and with Redd-Jefferson-Bogut won't be as bad. They'll be aiming for .500. We should be a little better than them but they could beat us.

-Jersey is not that good but with Harris, Carter and Yi, they might push for .500 also.

NCAA teams:

-We should definitely be better than Indy, NY, and Charlotte.

So going by this I have us in the 8-10 range. I'll be optimistic and say 8 seed. Of course all of this is with Woodson at the helm. If we had gotten a real winner, I think we have the talent to be as high as a 4-5 seed.

Come on Las! You REALLY believe that Woody's coaching is the difference between us possibly being a 4 seed and possibly missing the playoffs altogether? NO WAY would Avery Johnson, Flip Saunders or any other available coach make THAT much difference. That is AT LEAST at 10 win difference and maybe more.

In addition, why is it that you make it seem that TOR was FAR better than us after finishing 4 games ahead of us but that we were just barely better than CHI after we finished 4 games ahead of them? I don't think it was a big difference either way. In fact, I don't think TOR was (or is) THAT much better than CHI.

I am cautiously optimistic that this team is not only going to make the playoffs but that we will be a lgetimate threat to make some noise when we get there.

I think BOS will be the class of the EC again but after that, I think it is a lot more wide open. I don't think that ORL, CLE and DET are LOCKS to be better than us (or PHI, TOR, CHI, MIA) for that matter. They MAY be but those teams have issues as well.

We competed VERY well with ORL last year and I think Al, Smoove and Marv will all be a lot better than last year whereas Howard is the only player in their starting lineup I expect to be a lot better.

DET will be a pretty old team next year. They have some young talent in Stuckey, Maxiell and MAYBE Amir Johnson but their key players are getting on up there. I can see us gaining signifcant ground on them this year.

CLE has LeBron but Big Z is getting older and we match up VERY well everywhere else. In fact, I'd take our starter at PG, SG, PF & C over theirs.

Bottom line is that I think BOS is the best in the EC but there is not going to be a huge difference between teams 2-10. The teams that stay the healthiest are going to be the most successful in that grroup. There will be some surprises and I think we have as good a chance to be one of those surprises as anyone.

[Wretch]

I hear a lot of talk about how the East has so vastly improved, but I really don't see this improvement much at all.

1) Boston is a lock

2) Detroit is a lock

3) Orlando is decent

4) Cleveland always hangs around, not much to say about them

5) Washington plays no defense

6) Toronto's whole season depends on a player who plays 60 games on a good year

7) Philly has improved

Indiana sucks--two best players are Danny Granger and Mike Dunleavy

New Jersey sucks

Chicago is the mystery team which may win a ton of games, but may be a year or two away

Charlotte is not a threat

Milwaukee sucks and has no defense

New York sucks

Miami -- who is their point guard?

So basically, Philly, who was above us last year, improved, and Chicago has improved.

I expect us to finish ahead of Washington if we are healthy and everyone steps us.

#7 in the East this year

Bos, Det, Orl, and Cle are all locks. 5-8 is going to be tight.

On the upper half of the bottom 4....Philly, Tor, Atl, and Was.

Knocking on the door are Chi, Mia, Mil, and Ind.

NY, Char, and NJ are lottery bound - with NY showing some signs of improvement.

Hopefully we can clinch our own playoff berth this year, but yeah...looks like a 7th/8th seed for us if we play right.

Edited August 15, 2008 by Wretch

[High5]

I'd take Joe over Arenas any day, but Arenas is the greatest addition to this division. He played some last year, but not enough to make an impact. This year will be different barring another serious injury. And Toronto was better than us last year without JO, so 60 games is plenty.

Edited August 15, 2008 by High5

[Lascar78]

Come on Las! You REALLY believe that Woody's coaching is the difference between us possibly being a 4 seed and possibly missing the playoffs altogether? NO WAY would Avery Johnson, Flip Saunders or any other available coach make THAT much difference. That is AT LEAST at 10 win difference and maybe more.

In addition, why is it that you make it seem that TOR was FAR better than us after finishing 4 games ahead of us but that we were just barely better than CHI after we finished 4 games ahead of them? I don't think it was a big difference either way. In fact, I don't think TOR was (or is) THAT much better than CHI.

I am cautiously optimistic that this team is not only going to make the playoffs but that we will be a lgetimate threat to make some noise when we get there.

I think BOS will be the class of the EC again but after that, I think it is a lot more wide open. I don't think that ORL, CLE and DET are LOCKS to be better than us (or PHI, TOR, CHI, MIA) for that matter. They MAY be but those teams have issues as well.

We competed VERY well with ORL last year and I think Al, Smoove and Marv will all be a lot better than last year whereas Howard is the only player in their starting lineup I expect to be a lot better.

DET will be a pretty old team next year. They have some young talent in Stuckey, Maxiell and MAYBE Amir Johnson but their key players are getting on up there. I can see us gaining signifcant ground on them this year.

CLE has LeBron but Big Z is getting older and we match up VERY well everywhere else. In fact, I'd take our starter at PG, SG, PF & C over theirs.

Bottom line is that I think BOS is the best in the EC but there is not going to be a huge difference between teams 2-10. The teams that stay the healthiest are going to be the most successful in that grroup. There will be some surprises and I think we have as good a chance to be one of those surprises as anyone.

I absolutely do think another coach could make that much difference. I can't think of a single coach that I have seen in my 20+ years of watching basketball that was noticeably worse than Woody. And I DEFINITELY have not seen a coach this bad or worse get re-signed. I mean honestly, I dare you to name a coach in the last 20-30 years that was worse than Woody and got re-signed after his contract was up. Try me.

We've been over this before. I have never seen a coach actually cost his team games, and it has happened a number of times every season. I think that if you replace Woody with a regular Joe Blow coach that just goes by the book, and doesn't bring anything special but doesn't screw up like Woody, we win an extra 3-5 games a year. If you go out and get a real talent, I think that they could easily squeeze an extra 3-5 wins out of this team. So yes, I do think a top notch coach could get 10 more wins out of this team than Woody.

And I didn't say Toronto was FAR better than us. I said they were better, and if the all-star center they just added stays healthy and meshes well, they are WAY better than us. Just like I would say we got WAY better if we had aquired a six-time all-star center.

I think the key with Chicago is that they underachieved drastically last year. If all teams remained unchanged and we just played next season with the exact same teams, they would be the most improved (other than injuries like Miami etc...). I think it's pretty fair to say that they're our equals.

I just don't see us making noise in the playoffs with Woodson when it comes to adjustments. Our team played well, but they really fed off of the passion from the crowd letting out a decade's worth of frustration. And Childress was huge for us in the playoffs and is gone. On the road, we lost by an AVERAGE of over 25 points. That's just embarrassing. He didn't really screw anything up at home (we didn't see the usual nutty subs etc...), but he sure as hell didn't get the team ready for the road. Just like he didn't get them ready for the games where we could clinch a playoff birth We had to rely on others screwing up instead.

And maybe we have 4 better starters than Cleveland, but there's no making up for a MVP-caliber player in the NBA, especially when he gets NBA-caliber calls. After all they made the finals just a year ago.

And you're probably right in that anything can happen, and that's why they play the games. All I'm saying is that if I were to gamble on it, I would probably list the 8 seed as our most likely position. With a lot of teams with a similar talent level, injuries and coaching play a big part. We can't control injuries, but when it comes to coaching we're basically behind everyone. Like I said, I think we have the talent to be a 4-5 seed, but I just can't see it playing Woodyball. Sooner or later a JJ isolation just doesn't cut it.

[Red Hawk #21]

I'd take Joe over Arenas any day, but Arenas is the greatest addition to this division. He played some last year, but not enough to make an impact. This year will be different barring another serious injury. And Toronto was better than us last year without JO, so 60 games is plenty.

Arenas does not make his team better imo, how many times has he said in his blog that he is going to score 50 points vs the next opponent and then he ends up going 9/27. He has a terrible shot selection, he does not get his team easy baskets and he is not a good defender. You can also check the Wizards record without him and you'll see they actually did better without him there taking bad shots and getting beat on defense. Arenas is actually one of my favorite players but his ego sometimes make me hate him.

[Lascar78]

Arenas does not make his team better imo, how many times has he said in his blog that he is going to score 50 points vs the next opponent and then he ends up going 9/27. He has a terrible shot selection, he does not get his team easy baskets and he is not a good defender. You can also check the Wizards record without him and you'll see they actually did better without him there taking bad shots and getting beat on defense. Arenas is actually one of my favorite players but his ego sometimes make me hate him.

Yeah I think Arenas is a more talented player than Joe but I would not trade Joe for him. He can be selfish and doesn't seem to know what is or isn't a good shot. He makes it all about him.

[High5]

Washington was pretty good a couple of years ago with a healthy team. Arenas will lose a game for the Wizards, but he'll come back and win a couple with his shooting.

[ATLJA316]

Yeah I think Arenas is a more talented player than Joe but I would not trade Joe for him. He can be selfish and doesn't seem to know what is or isn't a good shot. He makes it all about him.

You hit the nail on the head with what I was saying - I think Arenas has more skill, but I'd never trade JJ for him (for said reasons).

[Seano]

You can't really go by last year's results in my opinion. For example we were one of the healthiest teams in the entire NBA last season, but you can't exactly count on that happening this year just because it happened last. You can seed teams as they stand right now, but there's no way to foresee injuries. Like if Boston were to lose KG for any length of time, the seedings would change greatly. Or take Detroit. They're so old. Most of their best players are 30 somethings- so if they hit the wall and age finally starts to catch up to them, well then that would obviously change things.

But as far as we're concerned, assuming good health, I really don't see any reason why we shouldn't make the playoffs. But as others have noted, there's also the Mike Woodson factor at work here. He's the true wild card, so who knows how that's gonna go?

[TroyMcClure]

Come on Las! You REALLY believe that Woody's coaching is the difference between us possibly being a 4 seed and possibly missing the playoffs altogether? NO WAY would Avery Johnson, Flip Saunders or any other available coach make THAT much difference. That is AT LEAST at 10 win difference and maybe more.

In addition, why is it that you make it seem that TOR was FAR better than us after finishing 4 games ahead of us but that we were just barely better than CHI after we finished 4 games ahead of them? I don't think it was a big difference either way. In fact, I don't think TOR was (or is) THAT much better than CHI.

I am cautiously optimistic that this team is not only going to make the playoffs but that we will be a lgetimate threat to make some noise when we get there.

I think BOS will be the class of the EC again but after that, I think it is a lot more wide open. I don't think that ORL, CLE and DET are LOCKS to be better than us (or PHI, TOR, CHI, MIA) for that matter. They MAY be but those teams have issues as well.

We competed VERY well with ORL last year and I think Al, Smoove and Marv will all be a lot better than last year whereas Howard is the only player in their starting lineup I expect to be a lot better.

DET will be a pretty old team next year. They have some young talent in Stuckey, Maxiell and MAYBE Amir Johnson but their key players are getting on up there. I can see us gaining signifcant ground on them this year.

CLE has LeBron but Big Z is getting older and we match up VERY well everywhere else. In fact, I'd take our starter at PG, SG, PF & C over theirs.

Bottom line is that I think BOS is the best in the EC but there is not going to be a huge difference between teams 2-10. The teams that stay the healthiest are going to be the most successful in that grroup. There will be some surprises and I think we have as good a chance to be one of those surprises as anyone.

Trace, I don't know what coach you've been watching, but the one we have is definitely that bad. No question. Everything against him has already been said and then some, no need to badger you now. The ASG deserves Mike Woodson. I'll leave it at that.

[Kimsey]

I feel Philly is going to be a top 3 team in the east. Det and Bos are great teams but they aren't improving teams and should tail off very soon or a little later.

Now for us, we more or less played a 7 man rotation for the whole season including playoffs. We are an improving team that just added depth that could possibly go 9-10 deep. We are looking for players like MW, JS, AL, AC, and Bib to moderately to significantly add to their individual games so yeah I'm looking for a marked improvement in wins this season.