Nice offseason for the Hawks

[Traceman]

As the offseason draws near its close I was looking at the positives and negatives and I have to admit I think the Hawks are a better team now than they were at the end of last year. We all got very frustrated at how the Hawks played hardball with Chillz and Smoove but in the end I think we did pretty well. The Chillz situation was a unforseen error on Sunds part. I simply don't think any GM would have imagined a Greek team stepping in and throwing so much cash around. After that point I think Sund has done everything right. We resigned Smoove for a song. We signed 2 veteran backups in Evans and Flip that can contribute. We signed 2 young bigs in free agency that have nice potential that are the equivalent of late 1st or early 2nd round picks in Morris and Othello.

We have a solid starting 5. We are one of a handfull of NBA teams where it is reasonable to expect double digit scoring from all 5 starters. We have nice rebounders and shotblocking from our bigs. We have veterans who know how to win in our backcourt. We have a 3 that has progressed every year and should turn in 17 or 18 a game this year even though some here consider him a bust. Our bench is the deepest that it has been in years. Flip and Evans provide scoring and good defense. Both of them are capable of lighting it up from time to time. Zaza takes alot of knocks here but he is very capable. Two years ago he was a 12/7 starting center. If he accepts his role he can get alot of minutes and give us a nice 3 man rotation up front. I think Hunter may be the steal of the offseason. He played in the slow it down system at Ohio State and really couldn't show his entire game. In both Orlando and in the summer leagues he has been practically the best looking rookie around. I think he can be solid in backing up the 3, 4 and possibly even a little 5 if we are in a pinch. Morris is coming home and may finally get a chance to live up to his talent. I think he can be a Nazr Muhammed type player. All and all I am impressed by Sund so far. Thoughts?

I hope I'm wrong but I think we will miss Chillz a lot more than most here believe. Like all of our young guys, Chillz was still getting better. I think we will miss his versatility (ability to play 3 positions) and scrappiness. I understand the thought process behind why Sund wanted him to wait until after Smoove had signed but once he had Chillz ready to agree to the deal starting just above the MLE, he should have just went ahead and let him sign it. Other teams MIGHT have tried to make an offer to Smoove with Chillz signed but I would have had to take that chance. Sund chose to make Chillz wait and it pissed him off and we lost him. Still, it was an unprecedented situation for a Euro team to offer such a lucrative deal and so I certainly can cut him some slack for messing it up.

As for the rest of it, we got Smoove back at a reasonable price which is TERRIFIC and we signed quality backups in Mo and Flip. Morris was a solid signing too.

We will see with regard to Woody but I agree 100% with Nique that continuity is important. Hopefully, he will be the best version of himself that we have seen. At any rate, I think we will know by Christmas whether or not bringing him back was the right move. Even though losing Chillz was big, it will not be an excuse when we are bringing back all 5 starters.

Edited August 28, 2008 by Traceman

[Swatguy]

Avery Johnson and Flip Saunders to name two guys 100% better than Woodson.

Why so? Both were fired for their failings, Flip twice in what 3 years. With all their talent the Mavs beaten in early rounds two years straight. Swept if I recall in '07 and soundly bested despite the addition of Jason Kidd last year. And Flip. Minny was a failure and Detroit. Failures with much more talent than what Woody have had to work with. Losing to Cleveland two years ago and the dismal unmotivated series last season rightly sat Flip down for timeout.

Besides, neither of those guys are working this year primarily because they are getting paid (millions) Not to coach. there is no way ASG would, could or should have had either as coach.

[hawkman]

Of course that was a stupid question on my part. It kinda rubs me when fans feel/think entittled to make statements of ultamatum.

Woody got a two year contract. But thode who did not agree with it want to shorten it to 4 months. It is akin to Belkin making the claim to have draft picks taken from the team. It is akin to hoping the Hawks fail to get Woody fired. It is Stupid if you are a Hawk's fan.

The Hawk fan should rally behind the leader for the good. But some of you guys just want to be right. It is selfish.

Whoa hold on there buddy. I don't know what e-scuffles you may have had over Woodson in the past, but I have nothing to do with any of that. I'm pretty optimistic about this team's future, whether it be with Woodson at the helm or not. But if this team underachieves, he's out, two year contract or not. It's not so much an ultimatum as it is the nature of the business.

[Guest Walter]

What better prospects?

Are you serious? Avery J., Carlisle, Flip Saunders, Skiles, Terry Porter,

even Brian Hill, Bill Lambier, other non-NBA head coaches and NBA assistants...a ham sandwich!

I KNOW we cannot win with Woodson. Just about ANY of these guys would give us a better chance at contention.

W

[Guest Walter]

It kinda rubs me when fans feel/think entittled to make statements of ultamatum.

Woody got a two year contract. But thode who did not agree with it want to shorten it to 4 months. It is akin to Belkin making the claim to have draft picks taken from the team. It is akin to hoping the Hawks fail to get Woody fired.

This all boils down to WHAT you want. If you want mediocrity, then accepting less in the short-term in order to achieve more in the long term would seem treasonous. If you want more than mediocrity, accepting anything less because getting there might require short-term difficulty is treasonous.

You want Woody. You want mediocrity. That appears treasonous to me.

Please, before people question fan patriotism, can they step out of their world for a little bit.

W

[Swatguy]

Are you serious? Avery J., Carlisle, Flip Saunders, Skiles, Terry Porter,

even Brian Hill, Bill Lambier, other non-NBA head coaches and NBA assistants...a ham sandwich!

I KNOW we cannot win with Woodson. Just about ANY of these guys would give us a better chance at contention.

W

With the exception of Porter (and Laimbeer), these guys have failed with much more talent. What makes you think they would win with less?

That is truly a list of losers.

Look, I'm not saying Woody is Auerbach, but he has done his job with a handicapped ownership, Leadership and roster. These guys you say are better have had the pick of the litter and have failed miserably.

Edited August 29, 2008 by Swatguy

[Diesel]

If we had resigned Chillz I seriously doubt we add Evans and maybe even Flip. Its true we could have technically afforded them but I doubt the ASG would have freely spent money to back up the same positions.

While it's true that the Evans signing was a knee jerk reaction to screwing up the Chillz deal, we still could have had him and made him our primary backup to JJ and let Chillz and Marvin fight it out (for real) for Sf.

[Diesel]

Not resigning Chillz? An impossible to forsee Greek Mega-offer. I don't care if Childress was willing to sign earlier, blah, blah, blah...He wouldn't have done or gone elsewhere (for nothing) if it were not for such a ridiculously (stupid) offer from overseas. Given this was precedent, Sund could not prepare for this.

Walt,

I think when you look at how the negotiations were broken down... Sund Basically forced both Chillz and Smoove's hand to go out and find deals. In essence, he low balled them because he knew that the market wouldn't offer much to RFA who other teams knew would be matched. Chillz was given a deal that he was willing to take. The particulars of that deal is that it would have made Chillz longterm and as cheap as we're paying Marvin right now. In essence, he would have been good Marvin insurance or tradebait. However, Sund's powertrip ignored Chillz too long and Chillz found an unprecedented deal. You say can't blame Sund. I say, you have to blame Sund. If you have a beauty of a deal, you do everything you can to get it finalized.

[Diesel]

I hope I'm wrong but I think we will miss Chillz a lot more than most here believe. Like all of our young guys, Chillz was still getting better. I think we will miss his versatility (ability to play 3 positions) and scrappiness. I understand the thought process behind why Sund wanted him to wait until after Smoove had signed but once he had Chillz ready to agree to the deal starting just above the MLE, he should have just went ahead and let him sign it. Other teams MIGHT have tried to make an offer to Smoove with Chillz signed but I would have had to take that chance. Sund chose to make Chillz wait and it pissed him off and we lost him. Still, it was an unprecedented situation for a Euro team to offer such a lucrative deal and so I certainly can cut him some slack for messing it up.

As for the rest of it, we got Smoove back at a reasonable price which is TERRIFIC and we signed quality backups in Mo and Flip. Morris was a solid signing too.

We will see with regard to Woody but I agree 100% with Nique that continuity is important. Hopefully, he will be the best version of himself that we have seen. At any rate, I think we will know by Christmas whether or not bringing him back was the right move. Even though losing Chillz was big, it will not be an excuse when we are bringing back all 5 starters.

I think we had a deal with Chillz starting Just below the MLE. When Chillz started takes with the Greek team, we countered with a deal starting above the MLE. It was mucked up really badly. And yes we will miss his game. I look at Chillz as a type of gelling player. Not the best player on the team, not close, but he's a player who brings so much versatility that he helps the overall team chemistry.

[crimedog]

With the exception of Porter (and Laimbeer), these guys have failed with much more talent. What makes you think they would win with less?

That is truly a list of losers.

Look, I'm not saying Woody is Auerbach, but he has done his job with a handicapped ownership, Leadership and roster. These guys you say are better have had the pick of the litter and have failed miserably.

Not every team with some talent can with good players and coaching can win the title. Was D'Antoni a poor coach in PHX? Nash a poor leader? No, they just ran into a more talented team in SAS 3 times (and a more talented team in Dallas when they lost Amare).

Judging whether a coach is good or not based exclusively on whether they win it all isn't really a fair way to do it. Was Larry Brown a loser before Detroit even though he had done some amazing things and a winner after even though he's basically been a train-wreck?

A good coach is a coach who you see positive qualities in. Flip Saunder's teams are usually overachievers on offense, this has been born out in Minny and Detroit. He didn't push the team over the edge like Brown but if he had a shortcoming as a coach it was not being able to reawaken the fire in old players who lost their hunger. Skiles, Carlisle, both these guys have their problems but both have proven methods. Sure, the Bulls imploded but they had overachieved before, they fell back down to a level commensurate with their talent. You can only listen to a guy for so long before you tune him out - especially if he's really taking you to task. Carlisle is an insane micromanager but while he has his guy's attention, they play disciplined.

The problem is that unless you have some sort of transcendant talent to anchor your team around, players are going to stop listening at some point and think they know best. We have long past that point with Woody, hopefully the playoffs will kick the guys back into gear but sometimes a coaching change for change's sake is worth it.

[TroyMcClure]

With the exception of Porter (and Laimbeer), these guys have failed with much more talent. What makes you think they would win with less?

That is truly a list of losers.

Look, I'm not saying Woody is Auerbach, but he has done his job with a handicapped ownership, Leadership and roster. These guys you say are better have had the pick of the litter and have failed miserably.

You are insane! How can you compare winning 50+ games and not winning the title like 29 other teams, to a guy with a career .300 winning percentage? !?!?! And to top it, you seem to give the nod to Woody! What?

BTW, please explain how that Minnesota team that went to the Western Finals was soo much better than us? And how can you call guys with career winning records, losers? If they have "failed miserably", WTF has Woody done? Get real.

Some of you guys just act like coaches are there for window dressing and that you can only win with a certain level of talent. That is rubbish.

[Swatguy]

You are insane! How can you compare winning 50+ games and not winning the title like 29 other teams, to a guy with a career .300 winning percentage? !?!?! And to top it, you seem to give the nod to Woody! What?

BTW, please explain how that Minnesota team that went to the Western Finals was soo much better than us? And how can you call guys with career winning records, losers? If they have "failed miserably", WTF has Woody done? Get real.

Some of you guys just act like coaches are there for window dressing and that you can only win with a certain level of talent. That is rubbish.

Why did Minny fire Flip?

Why did Detroit fire Flip?

Why did the Mavs fire Avery?

You think the talent levels were even? The Hawks and those Minny and Detroit teams?

Or did they just have Mean owners?

With much is given, much is required. Flip and Avery were given much. Woody was given an AAU team and Joe.