TD's Take

[Joker]

Anthony Grundy lol, I forgot about that cat.

[TroyMcClure]

Ivey and Delk were basically the same player except one could shoot. Both lacked playmaking abilities. Both were good defenders. Giving minutes to the young second rounder is a bit of a stretch but I can somewhat understand it but there was more going on than that.

We played vet Tyrone Lue a ton that year and played Anthony Grundy over Delk. I don't see how you make the argument for Grundy over Delk with a straight face. Moreover, the Hawks could have either (a) featured Delk for a few games and traded him or (b) cut him earlier in the year. Instead, they let him languish on the bench, cut him, and let the top team in the East sign him for nothing. I can't come up with any justification for that. You might as well sign an NBDL guy to fill out the last spot on the bench if you aren't going to play someone like Delk and have no intent on keeping him or trying to trade him.

Again, this is one of the things that illustrate why Woody is the dumbest coach I've ever seen. Same with Jon Barry. He worked out fine for the Rockets. Couldn't get on the court here. There is a huge list of guys that for whatever reason, were not wanted here, and had playoff success elsewhere.

I disagree with Atlas. It is a big deal when you don't play the most competent players. It's that "going in another direction" crap. You never know that you don't have a chance until you don't. Unless if Woody is your coach. Maybe that's what he meant. It really doesn't matter if we play people that are worse than the people on the bench. Until we get a team of All-Stars, Woody can never win. He has absolutely no idea of role dynamics.

Atlas, you can't make the argument for youth and development when there is not a clear leader with a vision. It's obvious that we don't have any kind of master plan, from the top down. The best plan, to me at least, is to win games. Youth development is totally overrated. Play the guys that win games. I think a young guy learns more from watching a good vet in a winning environment than playing every day in a losing environment. You grow from winning, not from playing time. Does playing time teach you what's best in a given situation? No, but it allows you the opportunity to screw up because you don't know any better. Can watching a more competent player produce on the court hurt the team? No, but it does let the young guy watch someone who is clearly better perform in the correct way. Then, when he gets the chance, he knows right from wrong. Just my opinion, but when does all of this "development stop? It's been a decade, for god's sake.

[DrReality]

The signing of Flip and Evans shows more of a plan than we've seen for a while. They are guys that will help the young guys on the second team and raise the bar. We've seen that already in practice.

[AtLaS]

You are totally overreacting, and wrong IMO. PT and experience is VITAL. This is true for anything, which is why hands on training is the most effective training for essentially any job in the world. I can watch a teacher do a calculus problem 10 times in a row, but until I do it myself, I won't completely understand it. By going out there and being allowed to play through mistakes allows you to figure out what will work for YOU personally in the league, and builds confidence when that happens. Why do you think Acie played so well last year when he started a few games, received consistent minutes and was allowed to play through mistakes. He played MUCH better until getting hurt.

Look at Childress, he absolutely sucked for the first few months and everybody was dogging the hell out of him. But, he was allowed to play through mistakes and ended up having a decent year by the 2nd half of the season.

You act like Delk was some world beater. The only reason we should've played him more is to increase trade value, which wouldn't have been anything more than a 2nd rounder. He was coming off an injury the past season and getting up there in age. Not to mention he's a 6'0 SG that isn't very effective on defense. I'd MUCH rather play a rookie than that.

Same with Jon Barry. He worked out fine for the Rockets. Couldn't get on the court here. There is a huge list of guys that for whatever reason, were not wanted here, and had playoff success elsewhere.

Because they went to legit playoff teams that were established. Did you really think JJ and Harrington could take us to the playoffs?? REGARDLESS of the coach it wasn't going to happen.

Can watching a more competent player produce on the court hurt the team? No, but it does let the young guy watch someone who is clearly better perform in the correct way.

I'm sorry, but noone improves the MOST by watching people play. There is definitely some improvement to be gained by watching, but only to a certain extent. Sooner or later the player has to see the floor and see how his skills work against true NBA competition. Besides, by watching players, the player you're watching probably plays a different style so that player is playing to his strength's, which are completely different from the player watching. Experience is VITAL to success. Why do you think people always say, that's a vet team, they've been there before, or that's a young team they need to gain that playoff experience before they're ready to win.

The key exception being the Celtics of course who had 3 star players who are over 30 and have been to the playoffs NUMEROUS times, as well as two players who've already won championships in Cassell and Posey, and not to mention they ran through a weak EC.

Edited October 6, 2008 by AtLaS