What I learned from Tonight...

[Devon]

1. We get ZERO respect from league officiating.

-- Joe Johnson gets slapped in the face on every drive, no whistle. Paul Pierce pushes off, spins wildly out of control, never once looking at the basket, throws his hands in the air, TWEEEEEEEEET, foul on whomever happened to be near him in a Blue Uniform... That s*it has to be regulated, these refs tonight were HORRIBLE.

2. Al Horford bites on EVERY Pumpfake and will continue to be in foul trouble until he learns to not do so.

-- I love Al, but we need him to MATURE up quickly; 22 minutes on the court because of foul trouble probably cost us the game; we needed his rebounding presence.

3. Flip Murray is a true 6th man; Maurice Evans is your 7th, after that... ugh

4. Nobody moves on inbound plays and it drives me crazy!!!

5. The only player ever moving in our offensive set is Joe Johnson

-- I counted no less than 13 different trips down the floor that resulted in less than 2 passes; no ball movement = Give it to JJ and Pray = Not Winning B'Ball

6. We need Josh Smith back with the QUICKNESS

-- This is a brutal stretch to be short on bodies

7. Solomon Jones/Randolph Morris is not NBA-talent

-- I'm sorry, I have really wanted this experiment to succeed but they're just not there. They're not going to be there anytime soon and we need a legit "big man" presence; aka Antonio McDyess, to solidify our #2 lineup...

8. Acie Law IV is a huge disappointment to this point...

-- We drafted this kid, a senior Big12 co-player of the year, for his shooting, scoring and leadership... What happened to that guy and who is this guy playing 17 seconds a game? Looks like we may be BACK in the market for a point guard in the offseason unless he REALLY steps up.

I know it all sounds negative, and I'm not trying to be, but what with all the pink sunshine from our 6-0 start somebody needed to be rational. I love this team, I'm just really concerned about the perceived FRAGILE nature of the players and the overall lack of bench depth.

Thoughts?

[bronnt]

1. We get ZERO respect from league officiating.

-- Joe Johnson gets slapped in the face on every drive, no whistle. Paul Pierce pushes off, spins wildly out of control, never once looking at the basket, throws his hands in the air, TWEEEEEEEEET, foul on whomever happened to be near him in a Blue Uniform... That s*it has to be regulated, these refs tonight were HORRIBLE.

2. Al Horford bites on EVERY Pumpfake and will continue to be in foul trouble until he learns to not do so.

-- I love Al, but we need him to MATURE up quickly; 22 minutes on the court because of foul trouble probably cost us the game; we needed his rebounding presence.

3. Flip Murray is a true 6th man; Maurice Evans is your 7th, after that... ugh

4. Nobody moves on inbound plays and it drives me crazy!!!

5. The only player ever moving in our offensive set is Joe Johnson

-- I counted no less than 13 different trips down the floor that resulted in less than 2 passes; no ball movement = Give it to JJ and Pray = Not Winning B'Ball

6. We need Josh Smith back with the QUICKNESS

-- This is a brutal stretch to be short on bodies

7. Solomon Jones/Randolph Morris is not NBA-talent

-- I'm sorry, I have really wanted this experiment to succeed but they're just not there. They're not going to be there anytime soon and we need a legit "big man" presence; aka Antonio McDyess, to solidify our #2 lineup...

8. Acie Law IV is a huge disappointment to this point...

-- We drafted this kid, a senior Big12 co-player of the year, for his shooting, scoring and leadership... What happened to that guy and who is this guy playing 17 seconds a game? Looks like we may be BACK in the market for a point guard in the offseason unless he REALLY steps up.

I know it all sounds negative, and I'm not trying to be, but what with all the pink sunshine from our 6-0 start somebody needed to be rational. I love this team, I'm just really concerned about the perceived FRAGILE nature of the players and the overall lack of bench depth.

Thoughts?

What I got from that...

1) Al Horford is a bad defender.

2) The bench stinks.

3) The offense stinks (actually it kinda does, at times)

4) We can't win without getting any more players.

Gosh, our record must be TERRIBLE right now.

[Devon]

What I got from that...

1) Al Horford is a bad defender.

2) The bench stinks.

3) The offense stinks (actually it kinda does, at times)

4) We can't win without getting any more players.

Gosh, our record must be TERRIBLE right now.

No... You read it wrong.

I guess you'd rather me say "Hey the Hawks are 6-1 and the best darn team in the entire league, we have no faults, our bench is so awesome that we can lose anybody any night and it wont matter cuz we're just the gee-golly best team ever."

Sorry bro, I love this team and I love what they are doing but the fats are the facts...

Al Horford bit on at east 3 Paul Pierce pump-fakes; he's done it for years (I watched Florida B'Ball and he was always in Foul Trouble), tonight his absence from the court for 26 minutes definitely hurt this team; even more so when Zaza went down. He's got to become more conscience of it or he's doomed to consistent foul trouble and early bench time.

It would be nice to have some more PLAYERS; like a McDyess or a Jannero Pargo/Leandro Barbosa type player. Flip Murray has been awesome off of the bench but wouldn't it be nice to have an actual NBA-Level BIG MAN to come off the bench? Hell, a Darko Milicic/Rasho Nesterovic/Jeff Foster type of player would be nice to give Al a rest and maybe actually develop Solomon Jones into something other than the uncoordinated stick he currently resembles...

I have no Hawks' hate, I simply want us to be better and earn the respect of the rest of the league through consistency...

Show me how many teams have Championship Banners for being 6-1

[TruJerz]

1. We get ZERO respect from league officiating.

-- Joe Johnson gets slapped in the face on every drive, no whistle. Paul Pierce pushes off, spins wildly out of control, never once looking at the basket, throws his hands in the air, TWEEEEEEEEET, foul on whomever happened to be near him in a Blue Uniform... That s*it has to be regulated, these refs tonight were HORRIBLE.

2. Al Horford bites on EVERY Pumpfake and will continue to be in foul trouble until he learns to not do so.

-- I love Al, but we need him to MATURE up quickly; 22 minutes on the court because of foul trouble probably cost us the game; we needed his rebounding presence.

3. Flip Murray is a true 6th man; Maurice Evans is your 7th, after that... ugh

4. Nobody moves on inbound plays and it drives me crazy!!!

5. The only player ever moving in our offensive set is Joe Johnson

-- I counted no less than 13 different trips down the floor that resulted in less than 2 passes; no ball movement = Give it to JJ and Pray = Not Winning B'Ball

6. We need Josh Smith back with the QUICKNESS

-- This is a brutal stretch to be short on bodies

7. Solomon Jones/Randolph Morris is not NBA-talent

-- I'm sorry, I have really wanted this experiment to succeed but they're just not there. They're not going to be there anytime soon and we need a legit "big man" presence; aka Antonio McDyess, to solidify our #2 lineup...

8. Acie Law IV is a huge disappointment to this point...

-- We drafted this kid, a senior Big12 co-player of the year, for his shooting, scoring and leadership... What happened to that guy and who is this guy playing 17 seconds a game? Looks like we may be BACK in the market for a point guard in the offseason unless he REALLY steps up.

I know it all sounds negative, and I'm not trying to be, but what with all the pink sunshine from our 6-0 start somebody needed to be rational. I love this team, I'm just really concerned about the perceived FRAGILE nature of the players and the overall lack of bench depth.

Thoughts?

some good points but here's what I think:

1. Johnson will probably never get calls like Kobe, Wade, LBJ, Pierce, ect..but o well..we just gotta live with it

2. agree with you on Horford

3. Im a big fan of Flip Murray but on some days Flip will be better and on others Evans will be. they both were phenominal tonite

4. agree with u on inbound plays but not a big deal tho

5. I think alot of teams play like this. one player does most of the moving around and trying to get opened(Kobe, T-Mac, Vince Carter, Wade, ect.) so I wouldnt use that as an excuse i dont think

6. of course I agree with u on needing Josh Smith back ASAP!

7. Solomon Jones is an NBA player and will only get better too..im glad with what i've seen from him. Randolph Morris on the other hands looks lost and clueless out there tho..disappointed in him. Antonio McDyess would make so much sense for us right now but it wont happen so stop

8. How can Acie Law be a disappointment when he isnt playing much. it isnt his fault, I mean we have 2 good veteran guards in Bibby and Murray and so its hard 4 him to get alot of PT. God forbid Bibby or Murray gets hurt, I trust that Law will hold us down for the time being. I still like the kid's potential..dont give up yet

I wanna add that Zaza has gotten better as a player..looks much better now than he did last year or any year b4..hope his injury isnt serious and comes back soon. any updates on that?? we need him

[DrReality]

I agree about Solo. He can play.He started ball late so he's just now coming into his own.

Another thing that I learned, is that their pressure on the ball when come a cross mid court slows us down. We have to learn how to get past that and find guys inside.

[Boomer]

Yeah, I was very upset with the officiating last night.

Horford definitely bites on the pumpfakes too much, but I think that can be fixed fairly easily.

On too many possessions last night our offense slipped back into last years mode where we sit around and watch Joe. We can't stop that ball movement. The only reason we were so close last night was our amazing 3pt shooting.

[crimedog]

Devon, I like this thread - its the reason we come here instead of focusing on our jobs...

Anyway, Joe doesn't look to draw the fouls. You don't necessarilly have to be a big name to draw a foul because guys like KevMartin, Maggette, Leon Powe, and last year's Marv got to the line a bunch with varying degrees of name rec. I think one of two things is required, a blazing first step that makes getting by the first defender basically a given or the propensity to throw yourself into a defender right underneath the hoop. Joe has a solid first step and he usually tosses the floater instead of trying to go all the way, he gets grabbed a lot but he doesn't look for contact on the shot and make it really obvious (and he doesn't do that pain in the ass Kobe thing where he just jumps into his defender when he doesn't have space to take the jumper).

Al does bite on pump fakes too much, he can probably fix that. I don't look at him as a guy who I'd expect to average 2 blocks a game anyway as long as Josh is next to him in the front court. I like that he's strong enough to play against the really tough guys even though he's undersized but mobile enough to switch out, the combination of Al and Josh's strengths make us very 04' Pistons-ish.

You're right about the lack of movement. Its partially the players and partially the play-calling. We never run screens for our bigs to get lobs underneath and we never run Marv through screens to get open looks. I still think its part of Woody's vision, he wants us to be like the Ravens or Steelers of a couple years back where the defense stops you and then Bettis/Jamal Lewis crush 4 yards every carry for a slow but effective W. Joe being the power-back here.

Solo in his current incarnation is fine as 5th big man and he looks to be able to be a 4th big man with a little more work. The problem is that we are missing our top defender in the front court which pushed Al into that role where he is too foul prone and Zaza got injured. Its a rough set of circumstances but there aren't too many teams that have 5 quality bigs. Morris is still basically an unknown, he obviously isn't a starter but he only really played against Torranah where he looked very comfortable on offense.

Yeah, Acie sucks. What are you gonna do it though? I want him to go to the D for a little as he has no trade value and no court value, why waste him on the bench?

[Admin]

Devon, I like this thread - its the reason we come here instead of focusing on our jobs...

Maybe we should institute a time limit that each member is allowed to be on here during the day, something like 30 minutes? We really don't want to make each other unproductive at work by spending too much time on here, right?

[BusBoyIsBack]

Solo is solid. He can play defense. He just struggled defending Garnett, but so did Horford. So does just about every defender that's ever defended Garnett.

Randolph Morris is a bum. Woody should have bought in Othello Hunter, he couldn't have done worse

[Admin]

I think that Devon made some very valid points and while some may consider him to not be a true fan because of them I'm quite certain that the players, coaches, and management see the same issues and are working to fix them.

[Admin]

Solo is solid. He can play defense. He just struggled defending Garnett, but so did Horford. So does just about every defender that's ever defended Garnett.

Randolph Morris is a bum. Woody should have bought in Othello Hunter, he couldn't have done worse

The one problem I had with Solo last night was simply due to his inexperience and that was a couple of times he picked up some really stupid fouls that looked like something you'd see from one of those 2k video games where you try and swipe at the ball and get called for a foul and Kenny Smith or Clark Kellogg (this year) talk about how steals take finesse and yada yada yada. I just yelled at the screen damn Solo what were you thinking man.

[capstone21]

7. Solomon Jones/Randolph Morris is not NBA-talent

-- I'm sorry, I have really wanted this experiment to succeed but they're just not there. They're not going to be there anytime soon and we need a legit "big man" presence; aka Antonio McDyess, to solidify our #2 lineup...

Thoughts?

With Smith coming back Zaza will that be that extra big man on the bench to help provide some stability. I think Jones has played very well and stayed within his role while getting the extra PT. He has impressed me with his defense and rebounding. He is also not taking bad shots but instead letting the more offensive guys get into the flow and only taking the shot when he is open. He has done an excellent job with his extended role. I hope it continues when SMith comes back.

[Boomer]

Yeah, you can't fault Solo for his effort. He was trying for every rebound. I think he got an over the back call last night going for one.

[HawkItus]

what I learned is that Joe Johnson was right. We did need some vets. Since he made that statement think of who has come in and how much of a difference they made last night.

Bibby, Murray, Evans.

3 true Vets. Each of them took turns keeping us in the game until our younger guys like Marvin got into the flow of things.

[TheDude]

What I learned:

--Solomon Jones played well and it's good to see him get this many minutes and take advantage of it. If he gets consistent minutes this year, he will be a very good addition to the team by year's end.

--Acie Law is not getting minutes and I'm not sure why. He could have done well to play D on Rondo and also drive and kick. You know, it's as if Acie and the coaching staff has no clue that he can drive at will.

--Bibby is playing well for us and being what we need him to be. Veteran savvy.

--Marvin Williams I guessed has learned to shoot the 3. Next thing you know, he'll be pumpfaking and drive and dunking on folks. I hope.

--Paul Pierce is the biggest offensive flopper in the league. Continually he'll pump fake like 5 times before shooting or driving. Then if there's contact, watch his head, he always kicks it back like someone just stabbed him in the back.

--Kevin Garnett is still unstoppable. The fact that he can hit outside shots with such a percentage killed us.

--Morrison doesn't play confident. He needs more playing time to get a rhythym.

--Last year at one point Woody had a beard/goatee and we did well. As soon as he cut it, we started sucking, i remember thinking how odd that was. Then he went bald in the playoffs and we did well. So now he's got both going and we're doing really well. Here's hoping he keeps the razor on the hood and not the grill.

--that's all for now cuz i gotta go pee