Would you?

[Diesel]

The Rocky Mountain News is going out of business.

Many newspapers are going out of business because the internet offers free content.

Would you make micropayments for articles... (10 cents an article)?

[Swish]

No.

Because I can get my news if I need to elsewhere (i.e ESPN, Yahoo, or whatever)

[Diesel]

No.

Because I can get my news if I need to elsewhere (i.e ESPN, Yahoo, or whatever)

Actually, that's what I'm saying. I think the "free news" anywhere will soon start charging a rate to participate. The cost of production and the fact that there are super good pop up blockers will make it necessary.

[Swish]

Actually, that's what I'm saying. I think the "free news" anywhere will soon start charging a rate to participate. The cost of production and the fact that there are super good pop up blockers will make it necessary.

Interesting thought, but you think places like SI.com and Drudge Report will start charging?

I mean, it makes sense and it doesn't. They have to do tons of work to write, research, and compile yet most people don't see the ads (especially on Drudge). But if they start to charge, their readership will probably drop?

[Admin]

Many newspapers offer an online paid service now that supplements their free online stuff. I doubt that we'll see an entirely paid news site anytime soon. There is a ton of money that is made with advertising so there's no real need for major news sites to charge customers.

I doubt that newspapers will completely go out of business either since many people still prefer to read their news the old fashioned way.

[Diesel]

Many newspapers offer an online paid service now that supplements their free online stuff. I doubt that we'll see an entirely paid news site anytime soon. There is a ton of money that is made with advertising so there's no real need for major news sites to charge customers.

I doubt that newspapers will completely go out of business either since many people still prefer to read their news the old fashioned way.

I think you overestimate advertisements.

I mean, it's a game that's played between websites and marketers. However, the Marketers will always win because they hold the money. For instance, a pop up or pop under costs a marketer more money. Well, nowadays, when it comes to newspapers, they don't get their pay from advertisements simply from having the pop up or pop under or even clickable on their webpages, but marketers are now negotiating click rates. It all happens because of the efficiency of the pop up blocker. If more people use browsers with very good pop up and pop under blockers, instead of the marketers paying a higher rate for their advertisement being on the webpage, their rate is now being tied to how many clicks those advertisements get. This is very troublesome for newspapers because people just come for the articles. Moreover, bloggers just steal the articles. I would not be surprised to see these articles move to being charged. Something like 10 cents per.

[Diesel]

Interesting thought, but you think places like SI.com and Drudge Report will start charging?

I mean, it makes sense and it doesn't. They have to do tons of work to write, research, and compile yet most people don't see the ads (especially on Drudge). But if they start to charge, their readership will probably drop?

Much of what the Drudge report and other sites get is based off of what real news people report. The more real news people that go out of business, the less you will see from the drudge report and Hoopshype (to keep it basketball related).

[mrhonline]

I tend to agree with Diesel. We should enjoy the "free" news while we've got it, because I do think it will change.

[crimedog]

I would, provided the quality was high. I wouldn't pay money for an AP story or CNN or anything, at least not these days. I'd probably pay for something well-written though. I'd pay for the Times if I had to...

[Swish]

So do you think things like the online AJC will start moving more towards a subscription type thing? Remember the disastrous AJCSportsPlus thing where we had to pay to read stuff that wasn't that good anyway, Mark Bradley, Terrence Moore, etc....

[crimedog]

So do you think things like the online AJC will start moving more towards a subscription type thing? Remember the disastrous AJCSportsPlus thing where we had to pay to read stuff that wasn't that good anyway, Mark Bradley, Terrence Moore, etc....

Thats the sort of thing I'm talking about though. If someoen put Mark Bradley and Moore in front of my face, I'd pay not to read it. Problem is, they suck. On the other hand, I do have Insider on ESPN and would gladly pay for it because a lot of stuff (well at least some of Hollinger and Stein's stuff) is pretty interesting and fairly well written.

[Diesel]

So do you think things like the online AJC will start moving more towards a subscription type thing? Remember the disastrous AJCSportsPlus thing where we had to pay to read stuff that wasn't that good anyway, Mark Bradley, Terrence Moore, etc....

The way I think about it...

If everybody went to a pay per... system... and you couldn't get any real news online without either paying for a subscription or paying per article, I think it would be amazing what people would pay for. I think what historically happened was that Newspapers underestimated the power of the internet when it first came out. Then you had certain newspapers going for the subscription with no real success.... Because everybody wasn't doing it. I think the Rocky going out of business is like the signal for all newpapers who are all struggling that they have to revamp their way of doing things. Giving the freebies will be a thing of the past within 2 years. Within 2 years, I think that every scrap of news will be subscription based with no way to copy.

[frosgrim]

The pay for internet news has been tried in several places, NYT, ESPN (to a degree), AJC, etc and they failed. The problem is that as long as there are free sites, then those that charge will loose readership. Its a defection problem (or a tragedy of the commons in social science speak).

Say all the news agencies get together and agree to charge some rate (OK that collusion, but just say). All it takes is one agency going back to free to defete the entire pay as you go system.

NOTE: I stopped getting a hard copy of the AJC, but it wasn't due to cost. They couldn't get me the newspaper before 6:30 AM. I leave the house then, so it was a useless expenditure. If they would get the damn paper out earlier, I would subscribe...

[Admin]

I think you overestimate advertisements.

I mean, it's a game that's played between websites and marketers. However, the Marketers will always win because they hold the money. For instance, a pop up or pop under costs a marketer more money. Well, nowadays, when it comes to newspapers, they don't get their pay from advertisements simply from having the pop up or pop under or even clickable on their webpages, but marketers are now negotiating click rates. It all happens because of the efficiency of the pop up blocker. If more people use browsers with very good pop up and pop under blockers, instead of the marketers paying a higher rate for their advertisement being on the webpage, their rate is now being tied to how many clicks those advertisements get. This is very troublesome for newspapers because people just come for the articles. Moreover, bloggers just steal the articles. I would not be surprised to see these articles move to being charged. Something like 10 cents per.

Diesel this is a big part of what I do and I guarantee you that there is a ton of money to be made in online advertising. You're thinking of 3-5 years ago when you're talking about pop-ups and what not. Most sites have dedicated spots for ads and if it's a site that gets a lot of traffic then the advertisers will pay quite well for that space and then it's up to the advertisers to come up with an ad that is catchy that will get people to click on it. The minute that a free site becomes a paid site their traffic will go down significantly and that will decrease the demand for their advertising space and dollars generated by advertising.

[Diesel]

Diesel this is a big part of what I do and I guarantee you that there is a ton of money to be made in online advertising. You're thinking of 3-5 years ago when you're talking about pop-ups and what not. Most sites have dedicated spots for ads and if it's a site that gets a lot of traffic then the advertisers will pay quite well for that space and then it's up to the advertisers to come up with an ad that is catchy that will get people to click on it. The minute that a free site becomes a paid site their traffic will go down significantly and that will decrease the demand for their advertising space and dollars generated by advertising.

SF Chronicle has next...

Some newspaper companies have lurched into bankruptcy. Those bankruptcy filings include the owners of papers such as the Los Angeles Times, Chicago Tribune, New Haven (Conn.) Register, the Minneapolis Star Tribune, and both major Philadelphia papers.

Other papers, including the Hearst-owned Seattle Post-Intelligencer and the E.W. Scripps-owned Rocky Mountain News, could close their doors if they can't find buyers.

Bay Area papers owned by MediaNews, including this one, have undergone staff reductions in recent years. The latest MediaNews cost-savings measures in this region include five days of unpaid furloughs for most employees.

The Chronicle has been losing at least $1 million a week in recent years.

"Despite all of our best efforts as an organization, the Chronicle continues to show staggering losses each week," Frank Vega, the Chronicle's chairman and publisher, said in a memo to the paper's staff. "Recent staff and expense reductions have not stemmed these losses."

"The problems at the Chronicle are partly due to the dismal economy and wide-reaching industry changes unleashed by competition from the Internet. "

What you will probably see is that Print will be reserved for the Sunday Paper. And there won't be much to that print either because they won't be able to make enough to sustain good reporting.

What didn't work before didn't work because there was not a concerted effort to make a pay per online news work. However, when every newspaper shut off access to a pay per status, that will cause people to pay for news and it will work. The wildcard is bloggers. Bloggers will still subscribe to the news and try to retell it their way. This is a problem because it will be difficult to find news that hasn't been spun. This is definitely a case where technology has made us weaker.

[Diesel]

SF Chronicle has next...

"The problems at the Chronicle are partly due to the dismal economy and wide-reaching industry changes unleashed by competition from the Internet. "

What you will probably see is that Print will be reserved for the Sunday Paper. And there won't be much to that print either because they won't be able to make enough to sustain good reporting.

What didn't work before didn't work because there was not a concerted effort to make a pay per online news work. However, when every newspaper shut off access to a pay per status, that will cause people to pay for news and it will work. The wildcard is bloggers. Bloggers will still subscribe to the news and try to retell it their way. This is a problem because it will be difficult to find news that hasn't been spun. This is definitely a case where technology has made us weaker.

Oh.. the direct response to what you have said is that if it worked the way you say and if there were a ton of money to be made, then newspapers wouldn't be going out of business and declaring bankruptcy.

The problem you miss is that advertisers go to where the people go. Mainly, that's places like google, facebook, myspace, etc. They don't go to newspapers as much as you would think because people don't spend much time at newspapers. That's why you have newspapers trying to get more reader interaction. If they can keep the people there and keep them interacting, then they have something that they can share with the ad people.

Sekou must hate the hell out of Hawksquawk. We take away from his business. If there were no Hawksquawk, then Sekou would have 100% of the conversation on AJC. Moreover, many of the newspaper guys hate the fact that they have to blog in order to keep their numbers (traffic) up. Do you think that Terrance Moore really want to hear your opinion of his last article? He loves being the conveyor of the news and being the most knowledgeable guy in the room. Do you think he wants to be upstaged by somebody who didn't even go to Journalism school? However, now... with he blogosphere in place, he has to endure that (or at least Sekou does).

The problem that newly empowered bloggers have however is that they don't realize how much of what they discuss is based on the work of somebody else. Once there are no more reporters.... then the people who read these bloggers as fact will find that there's nothing reliable to read? What good is a bloggers opinion if it has no basis?

I guess we shall see.

[Dsinner]

Oh.. the direct response to what you have said is that if it worked the way you say and if there were a ton of money to be made, then newspapers wouldn't be going out of business and declaring bankruptcy.

The problem you miss is that advertisers go to where the people go. Mainly, that's places like google, facebook, myspace, etc. They don't go to newspapers as much as you would think because people don't spend much time at newspapers. That's why you have newspapers trying to get more reader interaction. If they can keep the people there and keep them interacting, then they have something that they can share with the ad people.

Sekou must hate the hell out of Hawksquawk. We take away from his business. If there were no Hawksquawk, then Sekou would have 100% of the conversation on AJC. Moreover, many of the newspaper guys hate the fact that they have to blog in order to keep their numbers (traffic) up. Do you think that Terrance Moore really want to hear your opinion of his last article? He loves being the conveyor of the news and being the most knowledgeable guy in the room. Do you think he wants to be upstaged by somebody who didn't even go to Journalism school? However, now... with he blogosphere in place, he has to endure that (or at least Sekou does).

The problem that newly empowered bloggers have however is that they don't realize how much of what they discuss is based on the work of somebody else. Once there are no more reporters.... then the people who read these bloggers as fact will find that there's nothing reliable to read? What good is a bloggers opinion if it has no basis?

I guess we shall see.

Diesel is right in the fact that "old fashion" newspapers simply don't pay the bills any longer. You don't have to look any further than Atlanta's own AJC to see this. They have recently laid off many veteran add salesmen (even past salespersons of the year) in their newspaper division because they could no longer afford their salaries. They are leaning more towards online advertising moreso than the traditional black and white print because traditional newspaper adds simply don't come in like before and people no longer in fact get their news the old fashion way. I believe they've even changed their legal name and are no longer a "newspaper" but a media service.