I believe JJ and Smith can coincide with each other

[Joker]

But not with both of them starting. They are just not a fit when they are together. To be honest, Smith is a bad fit in most starting lineups, not because of talent, because he has plenty but because of his lack of consistency needed for a playoff team. He could very well be the best 6th man in league history. His potential is good and he is capable of being unguardable at times. That isn't enough when your play is so sporadic like Smith's. Joe lacks the temperment to be an #1 option on most playoff teams. He is as talented as anyone but just doesn't have that "it" factor to his game. I believe he is best suited with another star or two. JJ needs to play with guys who know their roles even when it's not given. I believe we have roles but some players don't want to play them. That could set us from the current state to a potential title contender. Opinions?

Edit

Edited May 12, 2009 by nbasuperstar40

[Brotha2ThaNite]

But not with both of them starting. Their just not a fit when they are together. To be honest Smith is a bad fit in most starting lineups, not because of talent because he has plenty but because of his lack of consistency needed for a playoff team. He could be the best 6th man in league history, his potential is good and he is capable of being unguardable at times. That isn't enough when your play is so sporadic like Smith's. Joe lacks the temperment to be an #1 option on offense, he talented as anyone but just doesn't have that "it". I believe he is best suited with another star or two. JJ needs to play with guys who know their roles even when it's given. I believe we have roles but some players don't want to play them. That could set us from the current state to a potenial title contender. Opinions?

:lol6:

[SmooveTheFuture]

and your hate for josh smith continues after he was the best player for us in the playoffs period go figure.

[Joker]

and your hate for josh smith continues after he was the best player for us in the playoffs period go figure.

Where is the hate? You can up my old threads and then find hate but this is not hating. I think I have been misunderstood in this thread.

[Jackets333]

and your hate for josh smith continues after he was the best player for us in the playoffs period go figure.

If that is true then it's not saying much. A lot of people would disagree with you. Anyone who is intentionally left open by the other team can't be that great.

[AHF]

Anyone who is intentionally left open by the other team can't be that great.

If Woody had Shaq or Duncan running in Smith's role on offense they would be left open, too. That wouldn't mean they aren't great. Josh is being misused in this offense.

That isn't to say he is first team all-nba or doesn't have a lot of work left to be done but the idea that people don't make him at the 3pt line and therefore he isn't great is a big logical disconnect in my book. All that it means when they leave him open is that he shouldn't be taking 3's and we shouldn't be running an offense where he is floating outside the 3pt line.

[Jackets333]

If Woody had Shaq or Duncan running in Smith's role on offense they would be left open, too. That wouldn't mean they aren't great. Josh is being misused in this offense.

The first part of this makes no sense at all and you can't compare those two players to Josh Smith, that is just ridiculous. Those are the guys DEMANDING double teams. No one EVER leaves those guys open.

[AtLaS]

I really want to see our team with some kind of offense. People get mad when Smith takes jumpers, yet most of the time that's the best option. It's either Smith take a jumper, Bibby/Joe take a contested jumper off the dribble, Horford/Zaza post up, or Flip/JJ ISO. That's it. It was embarrasing watching our offense tonight, Cleveland was giving us the game and we just couldn't take it because our offense is so bad. Every run we went on involved making TOUGH jumpers/runners.

Regardless, even if we fix our offense we won't be as good as the top 3 IMO. I definitely think we need to make a trade. Noone on our team is untouchable IMO. It's just risky as most of the best players available this next season (Amare, Bosh, Dirk, Duncan, Bogut, etc) will be FAs in 2010 and could leave for nothing.

[Joker]

If Woody had Shaq or Duncan running in Smith's role on offense they would be left open, too. That wouldn't mean they aren't great. Josh is being misused in this offense.

That isn't to say he is first team all-nba or doesn't have a lot of work left to be done but the idea that people don't make him at the 3pt line and therefore he isn't great is a big logical disconnect in my book. All that it means when they leave him open is that he shouldn't be taking 3's and we shouldn't be running an offense where he is floating outside the 3pt line.

Because of our lack of size and lack of post game is only common sense to put Smith and Horford at times out on the perimeter for spacing intent. No need to put Shaq on the perimeter unless he's making a pick because he's can get his shot off in the post. Smith can't consistently, and the same for Horford. We have to do that, when we don't, our spacing is terrible. We don't have the right fit be logical here. This is not even a question that's hard to answer, it's just fundamental basketball.

[MaceCase]

The first part of this makes no sense at all and you can't compare those two players to Josh Smith, that is just ridiculous. Those are the guys DEMANDING double teams. No one EVER leaves those guys open.

You're misunderstanding the point he is trying to make by knee jerkingly attacking the examples he used. The point he's making is that no team would closely guard yet alone double team post player's of even Shaq's or Duncan's calibre on the perimeter. They simply are not a credible threat from the 3 point line and any defense would sag off them because they know they are not going to hurt them from there.

[Jackets333]

You're misunderstanding the point he is trying to make by knee jerkingly attacking the examples he used. The point he's making is that no team would closely guard yet alone double team post player's of even Shaq's or Duncan's calibre on the perimeter. They simply are not a credible threat from the 3 point line and any defense would sag off them because they know they are not going to hurt them from there.

First of all, those players don't play on the perimeter. Second, Tim Duncan CAN hit a jump shot. What am I not understanding. This makes no sense.

Smoove can't play in the post and he can't shoot. He can't create anything because he can't dribble. What am I missing? He's just not a great player.

[Joker]

You're misunderstanding the point he is trying to make by knee jerkingly attacking the examples he used. The point he's making is that no team would closely guard yet alone double team post player's of even Shaq's or Duncan's calibre on the perimeter. They simply are not a credible threat from the 3 point line and any defense would sag off them because they know they are not going to hurt them from there.

I seen players sagg off Duncan at the 3 pt line, and then he passes the ball. I rarely see Shaq that far out but once again why would be that far out is the question. Josh needs to pass in that situation and find a sweet spot on the floor or else just keep running the set. It's not that hard to do. It comes down to Smith knowing his limitations.

[Joker]

First of all, those players don't play on the perimeter. Second, Tim Duncan CAN hit a jump shot. What am I not understanding. This makes no sense.

Smoove can't play in the post and he can't shoot. He can't create anything because he can't dribble. What am I missing? He's just not a great player.

He could be solid at slashing to the basket if his first step wasn't slower then Zaza's. He's a mixed bag in the post so you can't rely on that consistently and his form inconsistent when he shoots. All his problems come back to fundamentals. All of them except for his extremely slow first step and his below average lateral quickness.

Edited May 12, 2009 by nbasuperstar40

[AHF]

Since this isn't clear:

(1) Josh Smith should never be let to float on the perimeter.

(2) Woodson runs an offense that results in Josh Smith frequently on the perimeter.

(3) Even with our putred offense, Smith is evolving into an effective interior scorer. More improvement is needed but progress is being made.

Note: Josh Smith scored 8.4 ppg on interior shots last season. Tim Duncan scored 7.1 points on inside shots. (See 82 games). Josh can score effectively inside. He will never be a classic post-up guy like Duncan but he can be used more effectively than he is right now.

[AHF]

I seen players sagg off Duncan at the 3 pt line, and then he passes the ball. I rarely see Shaq that far out but once again why would be that far out is the question. Josh needs to pass in that situation and find a sweet spot on the floor or else just keep running the set. It's not that hard to do. It comes down to Smith knowing his limitations.

No question Josh deserves blame for poor shot selection. But there is also a problem putting him out there in our offense. He doesn't set effective screens. It removes him from the play and renders him unable to gather offensive rebounds. Setting Josh Smith up outside the 3pt line is just not smart at all.

I am willing to live with that kind of stupidity from Josh in the hopes that he will outgrow it in his mid-20s. Our coaches have no such excuse, IMO.

[dlpin]

... He could very well be the best 6th man in league history. His potential is good and he is capable of being unguardable at times. ...

Edit

:no-no:

[Joker]

Since this isn't clear:

(1) Josh Smith should never be let to float on the perimeter.

(2) Woodson runs an offense that results in Josh Smith frequently on the perimeter.

(3) Even with our putred offense, Smith is evolving into an effective interior scorer. More improvement is needed but progress is being made.

Note: Josh Smith scored 8.4 ppg on interior shots last season. Tim Duncan scored 7.1 points on inside shots. (See 82 games). Josh can score effectively inside. He will never be a classic post-up guy like Duncan but he can be used more effectively than he is right now.

1) See post #9

2) See post #9

3) Not really, he a fast break player who can be good on offense when the defense isn't set. Other then that, it's a tossup on what to expect. Smith best shots come from around the basket which is true. But how will he get there when defense are playing him to weakenesses' and he's not skilled enough to get to his strengths. Birdman is a good close shot guy, but how is he going to get those shots when he has little skill. Duncan is a highly skilled and crafty technicial player. The most skilled and talented one to ever play the game. Not a fair comparison for Smoove.

[Joker]

:no-no:

He does, what All Star type talent or potential talent doesn't outside of Mutombo. His athletic prowess cannot be understated.

[Popeye]

I want old SMoove back when he averaged 3 bpg and almost 9 boards, he was everywhere... THis year SMoove sucks, he doesn't play defense, he doesn't block shots, he doens't want to rebound consistently....

From what i can see Smoove is trying to become Curry/Zach Randolph like player and that hurts me seriously... It makes me sick when SMoove gives up a layup on one end, than shoots a 20 ft jumper on the other..

[Jackets333]

Popeye, you are right about the rebounding. He just doesn't box anyone out, EVER. He just stands under the rim and waits for the ball. Countless times tonight Varejao got rebounds because Smoove didn't box him out. Again, this goes back to fundamentals. This is stuff you learn before high school.