Vicks signs with the Philadelpia Eagles!

[Final_quest]

Having watched most of Vick's pro games, I'm highly interested to see how the Eagles will use him and how much action he will see. Personally, I loved watching Vick play. He was an average passer, but with Dunn, Duckett, and Finneran they always had a good chance of getting to the end zone inside the 20. There were a lot of stretch plays and naked boot legs where he would just fly to the pile on, as well as 40 yard runs that would bust a game wide open. Not a likely Super Bowl winner, but he was exciting and fun to watch.

[EazyRoc]

You're going to become an eagle's fan just because Vick signed with them? Is that the depth of your fanship? Just following a few select athletes like a teen worships the Jonas bros.? Geez!

Why does that bother you ? There's people out there who would follow Kobe to the ends of the earth. Same with LeBron. When you're a transcedent athlete like Mike Vick was, it comes with the territory.

[DrReality]

I'm happy for the guy. Hope he does well.

[Yubs]

When you're a transcedent athlete like Mike Vick was, it comes with the territory.

Transcendent? lol, easy with the hyperbole. He hasn't done anything of note in the NFL to garner such a label, except run around a lot. There's nothing "transcendent" about Michael Vick. Is he an exciting player? Sure. Is he transcendent? Hardly.

[EazyRoc]

The man was highest paid NFL player in his time. He had fans all over the U.S. and around the globe. Michael Vick was more than just a superstar. You may not like his skills, but he was a transcendent athlete. Every team in the NFL had to adjust to the way he played. He was the Kobe Bryant or LeBron James of Football. Not because he was the best player, but easily the most known and highest paid.

[Yubs]

The man was highest paid NFL player in his time. He had fans all over the U.S. and around the globe. Michael Vick was more than just a superstar. You may not like his skills, but he was a transcendent athlete.

Michael Vick was never transcendent. Ever.

Michael Jordan was transcendent. Muhammad Ali was transcendent. Babe Ruth was transcendent. You know why they were transcendent? Because they were larger than life personalities. They were feared. Future generations mimiced them. But most importantly, they were champions.

Michael Vick has never been to a superbowl. He's never won the MVP trophy. We have highlight reels, and thats it. Where was his transcendent ability when the Falcons went 7-9 and 8-8?

Every team in the NFL had to adjust to the way he played. He was the Kobe Bryant or LeBron James of Football.

Well, firstly, he is not even the Kobe Byrant or Lebron James of Football. They were MVP's, and in Kobe's case, a champion. Again, something Michael Vick does not have.

True, teams had to adjust, and what happened? Rendered him ineffectual. Once they figured him out, he couldn't adjust.

Not because he was the best player, but easily the most known and highest paid

So... he was transcendent because a lot of people knew him? And he had a fat contract? That's all it takes these days? Then half the NFL must be comprised of transcendent athletes.

[AHF]

Vick was a trascendent athlete in the NFL like Bo Jackson or Vince Carter. All had jaw dropping athleticism that will be talked about for many years to come and moderate but far from legendary pro success. Vick is definitely not a transcendent NFL player but I think an argument could be made that between his legs and arm strength that he has shown to be a transcendent athlete if you view the term athlete as looking at the athletic gifts of a player.

[EazyRoc]

Vick was a trascendent athlete in the NFL like Bo Jackson or Vince Carter. All had jaw dropping athleticism that will be talked about for many years to come and moderate but far from legendary pro success. Vick is definitely not a transcendent NFL player but I think an argument could be made that between his legs and arm strength that he has shown to be a transcendent athlete if you view the term athlete as looking at the athletic gifts of a player.

I don't understand how people can argue against that. The man was a transcedent athlete. People are blinded by their dislike of Mike Vick. He was an extremely gifted athlete that brought people that don't even like football to the Georgia Dome. I was highly amused to watch how my aunts and female cousins cared so little about the Falcons after he was suspened, but it is what it is.

[EazyRoc]

Michael Vick was never transcendent. Ever.

Michael Jordan was transcendent. Muhammad Ali was transcendent. Babe Ruth was transcendent. You know why they were transcendent? Because they were larger than life personalities. They were feared. Future generations mimiced them. But most importantly, they were champions.

Michael Vick has never been to a superbowl. He's never won the MVP trophy. We have highlight reels, and thats it. Where was his transcendent ability when the Falcons went 7-9 and 8-8?

Well, firstly, he is not even the Kobe Byrant or Lebron James of Football. They were MVP's, and in Kobe's case, a champion. Again, something Michael Vick does not have.

True, teams had to adjust, and what happened? Rendered him ineffectual. Once they figured him out, he couldn't adjust.

So... he was transcendent because a lot of people knew him? And he had a fat contract? That's all it takes these days? Then half the NFL must be comprised of transcendent athletes.

He was transcendent because he was just that good of an athlete. The popularity and money just comes with the territory. Hate him or love him, I don't see how you can deny that he was a transcendent athlete. Every scrambling QB that comes in the league will be compared to him, until one comes along that is a better passer.

You don't have to be a champion or an MVP to be recognized as a transcendent athlete. You just have to be an incredibly gifted athlete. That's what Mike Vick was.

P.S. For like 5 or 6 years, and even now, just about any HS QB with athletic ability wants to emulate Vick's abilities as a playmaker.

Edited August 16, 2009 by EazyRoc

[Eddielives]

Vick was a trascendent athlete in the NFL like Bo Jackson or Vince Carter. All had jaw dropping athleticism that will be talked about for many years to come and moderate but far from legendary pro success. Vick is definitely not a transcendent NFL player but I think an argument could be made that between his legs and arm strength that he has shown to be a transcendent athlete if you view the term athlete as looking at the athletic gifts of a player.

There was definitely a lady given herpes from his transendent power between his legs.

[Yubs]

I think some of us are getting transcendent mixed up with exciting. They are mutually exclusive terms. Case in point: Josh Smith. Awesome athlete, can jump a million feet in the air, dunks are pretty nasty. But is he transcendent? Do you consider Josh Smith transcendent? Doubt it. But he sure is fun to watch.

Michael Vick was very much like that. He was a great athlete, he was fast, fun to watch, etc. But how can he be transcendent when he could never put 2 and 2 together? When he would get flustered so easily to give the fans the middle finger? Yes, he was a good athlete, but on the field, with some of the decisions he made, he came off as a mental midget. Too often it seemed like he was too concerned about making his next great run down the field, rather than just methodically moving the chains and picking his opponents apart.

Yes, he had the stats, but where were the winning seasons? The championship banners? The MVP's? The respect he was supposed to bring to the Falcons? How can you label someone with such a lofty title as "Transcendent" when he wasn't even a winner? Like AHF said, great athlete, poor football player. Although, I'll have to respectfully disagree with his assesment that Vick was a transcendent athlete.

A transcendent athlete - to me at least - is not just someone who is gifted physically. A transcendent athlete is someone who is the complete package. Physically and mentally. Someone who excelled in both. A natural born leader. A "god" on the field/court if you will. Again, much like Jordan or even Kobe. A player who is just so gifted that no others can hope to match them. Michael Vick is not in that category. Michael Jordan's name resonates with everyone. Michael Vick's name - doesn't. Well, maybe it does, but not in the way Vick would like.

If you want to make the argument that he could have been transcendent, then sure, I'll agree. He had the tools, just not the brains. If he developed his mental game a bit more, then yes, he could have been on his way. But unfortunately , he didn't.

[EazyRoc]

I think some of us are getting transcendent mixed up with exciting. They are mutually exclusive terms. Case in point: Josh Smith. Awesome athlete, can jump a million feet in the air, dunks are pretty nasty. But is he transcendent? Do you consider Josh Smith transcendent? Doubt it. But he sure is fun to watch.

Michael Vick was very much like that. He was a great athlete, he was fast, fun to watch, etc. But how can he be transcendent when he could never put 2 and 2 together? When he would get flustered so easily to give the fans the middle finger? Yes, he was a good athlete, but on the field, with some of the decisions he made, he came off as a mental midget. Too often it seemed like he was too concerned about making his next great run down the field, rather than just methodically moving the chains and picking his opponents apart.

Yes, he had the stats, but where were the winning seasons? The championship banners? The MVP's? The respect he was supposed to bring to the Falcons? How can you label someone with such a lofty title as "Transcendent" when he wasn't even a winner? Like AHF said, great athlete, poor football player. Although, I'll have to respectfully disagree with his assesment that Vick was a transcendent athlete.

A transcendent athlete - to me at least - is not just someone who is gifted physically. A transcendent athlete is someone who is the complete package. Physically and mentally. Someone who excelled in both. A natural born leader. A "god" on the field/court if you will. Again, much like Jordan or even Kobe. A player who is just so gifted that no others can hope to match them. Michael Vick is not in that category. Michael Jordan's name resonates with everyone. Michael Vick's name - doesn't. Well, maybe it does, but not in the way Vick would like.

If you want to make the argument that he could have been transcendent, then sure, I'll agree. He had the tools, just not the brains. If he developed his mental game a bit more, then yes, he could have been on his way. But unfortunately , he didn't.

That's where our opinion's differ. I'm going by the definition of transcendent, but you're applying your own qualifications. That's fine. However, Mike Vick was an athlete that went beyond ordinary limits of his fellow athletes. He had an incredibly strong arm and a pair of legs that were just as strong. He had field vision that surpassed many runningbacks in the league. He was agile like a cat. He was a phenomenal playmaker and would make things happen despite the lack of talent around him. Saying he's not an MVP or a champion means little to me. There's 22 starters on a football team. Mike Vick's teams were never well-constructed as they should have been. Give him a Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne, and see if he wouldn't have been an MVP. Give him a Pro-Bowl line and see if his team couldn't have made it to back-to-back winning seasons. He was a victim of poor coaching and a poor GM.

Josh Smith is exciting, and an incredible athlete. However, his athletic ability doesn't translate into anything, but easy dunks and shot blocking. He's not exceeding ordinary limits of a basketball player. There's plenty of players with hops like Josh who just haven't fared well in the NBA (not to say Josh Smith is a failure). He's not that fast or even strong. He just doesn't use his talents to the best of his abilities. If he did, then even I would consider Josh Smith to be a transcedent athlete. He would become a superstar in the NBA overnight. In contrast, LeBron is a transcedent athlete. He's fast, strong, and can jump high. He uses his speed to take people to the basket and get transition blocks. He uses his strength to finish despite contact, and his hops to dunk on people. He has the undeniable athletic ability, but knows how to use that athletic ability to make himself one of the best.

[DrReality]

The promos for the 60 minute interview have made it sound intriguing. Looking forward to it.

[AHF]

I see Vick's athleticism is transcendent because he made you wonder if the position of QB could be redefined with his extraordinary physical gifts. I am going to agree with bost posters, actually, about why he was not a transcendent player - both because of the mental part of his game and because of the terrible line and poor or too-young receivers he had during his time in Atlanta. That line was terrible at pass blocking and left Vick scrambling very quickly into pass plays. He was then throwing to receivers who were not fantastic at creating separation or at catching the ball. Despite that combination, I do think he achieved some nice success in Atlanta -- just not what many of us were hoping for him and that is ultimately on his ability to read defenses, work progressions and make the right play but also falls on the tools around him since football is the most team dependent of all the major US sports.

[DrReality]

I thought his interview last night was impressive. Much more humble man. Acknowledging that he cried in prison . . . . did not really work out. Sounds like he's turned over a new leaf.

[Yubs]

I'm going by the definition of transcendent, but you're applying your own qualifications.

I'm going by the definition too. When I hear somone call an athlete "transcendent," I automatically think, "an athlete who goes above and beyond. The near-perfect specimen. Someone who has few or no weaknesses. The total package. The undeniable superior player on the field/court." Am I wrong in thinking that? I don't think I am. And to me, Michael Vick just doesn't fit in.

And I wonder. Are you only counting his physical ability? Why are you ignoring the mental aspect? True transcendent athletes are superior in both aspects. Jordan, Kobe, Tiger Woods - all incredibly smart players who also have all-universe talent.

You don't often hear people throw around "transcendent athlete" haphazardly either. When they do, its usually reserved for true legends. How can Vick already be that when he has only been in the league for a handful of years? When the prime of his life was stripped away by jail time?

You imply Vick will be remembered and admired for years to come, hinting that future generations will mimic his game, a phenomenom you say is already happening. Besides Vince Young - a mentally unstable player who wasn't even the starter last year - and Pat White - an untested rookie who only had an ounce of the fanfare Vick had - who are these myterious players using Vick as a blueprint? Do you have a quote where a kid says, "Vick's playstyle was an influence. I try and pattern the way I play after him." Just because a QB scrambles to find the open receiver or the hole in the line, one can safely assume, "Oh hey! That's just like Michael Vick!" ? QB's have been doing that for decades before Vick was even born. Perhaps not with the fervor Vick had, but its been there. And that's somehow game-changing? Because Vick opted to run and not throw?

The QB position is not going to change. Teams want the next Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, not the next Michael Vick.

You also imply that the team and staff around Vick wasn't very good, blaming the ho-hum pieces around him for lessening his impact. Are you saying Vick is above the blame? That it was the entire team, sans Vick, that should bear the brunt of those disappointing seasons? Why is it easy to blame the team, but not Vick? Was Vick not part of the team? Did he not have a hand in losing some of those crucial games? How could their supposed leader, the guy that was supposed to make things happen, the guy who had a hand in almost every play, escape blame? You're right, those teams were overrated. And Mike Vick was apart of them.

And I don't think its as much as the team around Vick that "failed him," but because the rest of the league figured him out. We were a grossly one-dimensional team, an offense catered around Vick. Call it what you want, but Vick could not adjust. Vick and the Falcons went 6-2 or 5-2 (don't remember which), during the season in which they finished 8-8 and 7-9. The league adjusted halfway through the seasons, and he didn't. His vaunted leg and arm strength and playmaking abilities couldn't translate to just one more meager win. Blame the coaching staff or the players on the field if you want to (and believe me, they do share the blame), but Vick is not free from the blame.

Vick wasn't transcendent. He was controversial. He's the walking, living, breathing definition of "hype." And thats how he's going to go down in the history books, in my opinion.

I think we're interpreting transcendent differently. And have different criteria on what makes up a transcendent athlete. It's obvious we won't convince each other, so this'll be my last post in this matter.

[AHF]

Yubs, it sounds like in your mind a transcendent athlete is the exact same thing as a transcendent player. There is a disconnect between that view and the one several others have on this thread where a transcendent athlete needs to have amazing tools but need not having amazing success (because the ones with the amazing success are the transcendent players and the terms are not synonymous).

[APE]

Mike Vick's teams were never well-constructed as they should have been. Give him a Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne, and see if he wouldn't have been an MVP. Give him a Pro-Bowl line and see if his team couldn't have made it to back-to-back winning seasons. He was a victim of poor coaching and a poor GM.

I bet he never thought he had a bad GM when he got his paychecks.........

[AHF]

I bet he never thought he had a bad GM when he got his paychecks.........

I bet he thought life would be a bit easier if the OL didn't part like the red sea when pass blocking, but Vick never had cause to complain about his pay. He had a very generous contract.