Woodson and Joe Johnson

[terrellgroup]

First I would like to congradulate the Hawks in going to their 3rd straight playoffs. I would also like to give a shout out to the second squad team for playing fantastic.

Now that I have put out some positive stuff, it's time for the real. I would not sign Woodson nor Johnson in the off season.

Woodson is not a good leader as a head coach. His play calling is terrible, his substitution is bad as well. He does not have anyone playing to their max, he does not kick JJ a#s when he hold the ball forever, he does not kick Marvin a*s when he is not aggressive, he does not kick Crawford a%s when takes wild shoots, he does not kick Smoove a^s when takes those long jumpers towards the end of games. WOODSON HAS TO TAKE THEM OUT IMMEDIATELY. LET THEM KNOW WHO RUNS THE SHOW. RECENTLY, WE HAVE LOST SEVERAL GAMES BECAUSE,,,,,,,,,,,,THEY ARE PLAYING OUT OF CONTROL.

Now it's JJ turn. JJ wants the big bread, the BIG mula, the riches, still, he does not say ONE WORD to his teammates. He shows NO LEADERSHIP SKILLS. You don't pay top dollar to any player unless he is "THE GO TO MAN/LEADER"; you pay for both, two-in-one. He should be the eyes and mouth on the floor. That's what Wade, Kobe, Lebron does. If he wants top dollas he needs to OPEN HIS MOUTH. Say something; I know he sees Marvin not hustling or Crawford not in defensive position. He has to say something, ya think?

[billyjoebob]

First I would like to congradulate the Hawks in going to their 3rd straight playoffs. I would also like to give a shout out to the second squad team for playing fantastic.

Now that I have put out some positive stuff, it's time for the real. I would not sign Woodson nor Johnson in the off season.

Woodson is not a good leader as a head coach. His play calling is terrible, his substitution is bad as well. He does not have anyone playing to their max, he does not kick JJ a#s when he hold the ball forever, he does not kick Marvin a*s when he is not aggressive, he does not kick Crawford a%s when takes wild shoots, he does not kick Smoove a^s when takes those long jumpers towards the end of games. WOODSON HAS TO TAKE THEM OUT IMMEDIATELY. LET THEM KNOW WHO RUNS THE SHOW. RECENTLY, WE HAVE LOST SEVERAL GAMES BECAUSE,,,,,,,,,,,,THEY ARE PLAYING OUT OF CONTROL.

Now it's JJ turn. JJ wants the big bread, the BIG mula, the riches, still, he does not say ONE WORD to his teammates. He shows NO LEADERSHIP SKILLS. You don't pay top dollar to any player unless he is "THE GO TO MAN/LEADER"; you pay for both, two-in-one. He should be the eyes and mouth on the floor. That's what Wade, Kobe, Lebron does. If he wants top dollas he needs to OPEN HIS MOUTH. Say something; I know he sees Marvin not hustling or Crawford not in defensive position. He has to say something, ya think?

[billyjoebob]

I totally agree with you on Woody leadership. I have noticed that the only one he yells at is Jeff Teaque and maybe Mike Bibby. Horford was right it is mainly the fault of the guards. The ball movement could be much better. But Woody is afraid to get on JJ. I gringe went jj consistently takes those long jumpers went they have the lead with 10 minutes left in a game. All Woody needs to do is pull them out the game when they start doing that. If Joe Johnson does not like that let some other team deal with him. There are two many good players out there if he can deal with it. And Woody your not a leader if you can't make tough decisions. You show how weak you are by picking on Teague and letting Joe Johnson get away with murder.....

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Who do you get to replace them?

And be REALISTIC in your choices.

It's easy to whine and cry about our leadership, even though this Hawks team may be the 4th best in franchise history . . . . but hey, knock yourself out if you think this squad is void of leadership and can upgrade.

I love how everybody counts this team out after a bad loss. . . but acts like we can win the NBA title after a great win.

Edited March 28, 2010 by northcyde

[terrellgroup]

Who do you get to replace them?

And be REALISTIC in your choices.

It's easy to whine and cry about our leadership, even though this Hawks team may be the 4th best in franchise history . . . . but hey, knock yourself out if you think this squad is void of leadership and can upgrade.

I love how everybody counts this team out after a bad loss. . . but acts like we can win the NBA title after a great win.

who said anything about a bad lost. What I am talking about is what has been going on all season, win or lose. These are facts, Woodson does not take out the starters when they need to be. JJ does not open his month on the court. As leaders(coach, the captain) you have to speak up. Thats a fact, right?

and to answer your other question, I 'll take Bosh, play Crawford and be on the look out for a 2 guard.

[niremetal]

It's amazing to me that people think that a team's best player must also be its leader. Your “floor general” and on-court leader doesn’t need to be your best player, and on contenders it usually isn’t. Much as people like to think of Jordan as a leader, everyone who has ever written about the Bulls agrees Pippen was the locker room leader and on-court floor general. One of his main jobs was to calm down everyone that Jordan pissed off, which is one reason I find it funny that people talk about Jordan as if he were basketball's version of Alexander the Great in terms of leadership. On the three-peat Lakers, it was Rick Fox (I think there’s a forthcoming book on his role in keeping the locker room together during the Shaq-Kobe feuds). On the ‘06 Heat, it was Payton and (to a lesser extent) Zo. Of course, those teams were also coached by HOF coaches. And I don't think a team can win a title with a leadership void at head coach.

Bibby was supposed to be that guy until Horford was ready, but his floor generalship seems to have slipped with his level of play. JJ’s too quiet to be that guy (I’ve heard people say that he reminds them of George Gervin, who led contending teams despite never being a vocal leader and never having a true offensive co-star). Horford might be able to be that guy in a year or two, but it’s tough for vets to listen to someone they consider a young’un.

Edited March 28, 2010 by niremetal

[terrellgroup]

It's amazing to me that people think that a team's best player must also be its leader. Your “floor general” and on-court leader doesn’t need to be your best player, and on contenders it usually isn’t. Much as people like to think of Jordan as a leader, everyone who has ever written about the Bulls agrees Pippen was the locker room leader and on-court floor general. One of his main jobs was to calm down everyone that Jordan pissed off, which is one reason I find it funny that people talk about Jordan as if he were basketball's version of Alexander the Great in terms of leadership. On the three-peat Lakers, it was Rick Fox (I think there’s a forthcoming book on his role in keeping the locker room together during the Shaq-Kobe feuds). On the ‘06 Heat, it was Payton and (to a lesser extent) Zo. Of course, those teams were also coached by HOF coaches. And I don't think a team can win a title with a leadership void at head coach.

Bibby was supposed to be that guy until Horford was ready, but his floor generalship seems to have slipped with his level of play. JJ’s too quiet to be that guy (I’ve heard people say that he reminds them of George Gervin, who led contending teams despite never being a vocal leader and never having a true offensive co-star). Horford might be able to be that guy in a year or two, but it’s tough for vets to listen to someone they consider a young’un.

Sorry but you are mistaken. Jordan would rip his teammates apart if he did not have the ball during tight games. Jordan demanded to Pippen that he plays better defense.

Shaq told Kobe that the Lakers was his team(remember the big slap).

Kobe became the voice on the floor when it was his turn.

Ya already know what Wade does.

Lebron gets his respect as well

Should I continue? I will if you like.

Big bucks requires both performance and leadership

[HawkWeisErrr]

First I would like to congradulate the Hawks in going to their 3rd straight playoffs. I would also like to give a shout out to the second squad team for playing fantastic.

Now that I have put out some positive stuff, it's time for the real. I would not sign Woodson nor Johnson in the off season.

Woodson is not a good leader as a head coach. His play calling is terrible, his substitution is bad as well. He does not have anyone playing to their max, he does not kick JJ a#s when he hold the ball forever, he does not kick Marvin a*s when he is not aggressive, he does not kick Crawford a%s when takes wild shoots, he does not kick Smoove a^s when takes those long jumpers towards the end of games. WOODSON HAS TO TAKE THEM OUT IMMEDIATELY. LET THEM KNOW WHO RUNS THE SHOW. RECENTLY, WE HAVE LOST SEVERAL GAMES BECAUSE,,,,,,,,,,,,THEY ARE PLAYING OUT OF CONTROL.

Now it's JJ turn. JJ wants the big bread, the BIG mula, the riches, still, he does not say ONE WORD to his teammates. He shows NO LEADERSHIP SKILLS. You don't pay top dollar to any player unless he is "THE GO TO MAN/LEADER"; you pay for both, two-in-one. He should be the eyes and mouth on the floor. That's what Wade, Kobe, Lebron does. If he wants top dollas he needs to OPEN HIS MOUTH. Say something; I know he sees Marvin not hustling or Crawford not in defensive position. He has to say something, ya think?

I completely agree.

[niremetal]

Sorry but you are mistaken. Jordan would rip his teammates apart if he did not have the ball during tight games. Jordan demanded to Pippen that he plays better defense.

Shaq told Kobe that the Lakers was his team(remember the big slap).

Kobe became the voice on the floor when it was his turn.

Ya already know what Wade does.

Lebron gets his respect as well

Should I continue? I will if you like.

Big bucks requires both performance and leadership

Fail. LeBron I'll give you. Immature though he and his team can be, his teammates respect him for more than just the way he plays on the court. But everyone who has written about the Jordan-era Bulls has said that Pippen was the Bulls' defensive and offensive floor general. Jordan's ripping into his teammates was pretty much never constructive. There are people who give constructive criticism and/or who both call their teammates out for the bad and give them credit for the good, and then there are just flat-out a**holes. Jordan was an a**hole. He slammed teammates for daring to pass the ball to Cartwright, Kukoc, and Longley. Everyone who actually covered the Bulls who wrote about them has said the same thing - the made-for-TV image of Jordan as a team leader had little basis in reality. Pippen was the one who kept the team together, and his job was often calming down and focusing teammates who Jordan would needlessly cuss out. Seriously, only people who bought into the media-created Jordan cult and people who don't care enough to read about Jordans' Bulls say that Jordan was actually a "leader" in a constructive sense.

Shaq and Kobe's constant feuds made it impossible for either to be a true team leader because each player mistrusted teammates that were too friendly with the other. Fox and Jackson were always the locker room leaders, and Fisher and Fox were the most vocal players on the court until '03/'04 (which, not coincidentally, is when the Shaq-Kobe feuds boiled over and the Lakers fell from grace). Kobe today, sure he's a leader. But Kobe c. 2004 sure as hell wasn't.

What Wade does? You're kidding, right? He has the respect of his teammates for his on-court play, but he shows little trust in his teammates and the consensus is that he's become a prima donna ever since Shaq left town. Here's the most recent article in that line:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/24/1544144/miami-heats-carlos-arroyo-relishes.html

It's rather tame, but I've heard a number of reporters say that Wade has become increasingly ineffective and detached as a "leader" since '06.

Edited March 29, 2010 by niremetal

[terrellgroup]

Fail. LeBron I'll give you. Immature though he and his team can be, his teammates respect him for more than just the way he plays on the court. But everyone who has written about the Jordan-era Bulls has said that Pippen was the Bulls' defensive and offensive floor general. Jordan's ripping into his teammates was pretty much never constructive. There are people who give constructive criticism and/or who both call their teammates out for the bad and give them credit for the good, and then there are just flat-out a**holes. Jordan was an a**hole. He slammed teammates for daring to pass the ball to Cartwright, Kukoc, and Longley. Everyone who actually covered the Bulls who wrote about them has said the same thing - the made-for-TV image of Jordan as a team leader had little basis in reality. Pippen was the one who kept the team together, and his job was often calming down and focusing teammates who Jordan would needlessly cuss out. Seriously, only people who bought into the media-created Jordan cult and people who don't care enough to read about Jordans' Bulls say that Jordan was actually a "leader" in a constructive sense.

Shaq and Kobe's constant feuds made it impossible for either to be a true team leader because each player mistrusted teammates that were too friendly with the other. Fox and Jackson were always the locker room leaders, and Fisher and Fox were the most vocal players on the court until '03/'04 (which, not coincidentally, is when the Shaq-Kobe feuds boiled over and the Lakers fell from grace). Kobe today, sure he's a leader. But Kobe c. 2004 sure as hell wasn't.

What Wade does? You're kidding, right? He has the respect of his teammates for his on-court play, but he shows little trust in his teammates and the consensus is that he's become a prima donna ever since Shaq left town. Here's the most recent article in that line:

http://www.miamihera...o-relishes.html

It's rather tame, but I've heard a number of reporters say that Wade has become increasingly ineffective and detached as a "leader" since '06.

I am aware of Jordan's personality. The thing that Jordan,Shaq and Wade did or does is hold their teammates accountable. We lack accountability. There should be player on every team that says sometinhg, be it positive or negative comments. Who do we have on our team that says anything to the other players,except maybe Horford.