Latest Hawk Article from AJC

[phoostal]

Sounds like the team is pretty up beat for the up coming season. Interesting how they see Big Dog as the problem and not the solution.

Guarantee, no -- optimism, yes

By MICHAEL LEE

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

The Hawks admittedly underachieved last year, failing to fulfill the silly promise of a playoff "guarantee." But coach Terry Stotts likes to constantly remind people that they won 21 of their final 41 games.

Over the summer, the Hawks shipped leading scorer Glenn Robinson to Philadelphia in a cost-cutting trade, but it's no secret the team was 9-4 without the "Big Dog."

While Hawks players and coaches feel optimistic about the upcoming season, the local and national perception is that they will be one of the worst teams in the league. You'd expect Stotts to issue a non-guarantee any day now, but he said the postseason is a realistic goal. This year.

"I think there is a difference between a goal and a guarantee," said Stotts, entering his first full year as head coach. "We should be as competitive as any team in the East.

"We all have a little bit to prove," he said. "Expectations, frankly, from all I read and see aren't very high for us. Maybe we'll sneak up on some people. As long as we don't believe what we read, we'll be fine."

The addition of free-agent swingman Stephen Jackson, who won a championship with the San Antonio Spurs and will join the team today, probably has done little to change the negative opinion of outside observers. But even before Jackson signed last Friday, the Hawks refused to believe that they had gone from hopeful this time last year to hopeless with training camp underway.

"We feel good about this team," forward Shareef Abdur-Rahim said. "Nobody really expects anything out of us. That's fine. We'll keep it quiet, keep our head low, go out and handle our business.

"Our backs are against the wall," he said, "and when your backs are against the wall, you have two choices: come out fighting or curl up and get beat up. And I believe, with the guys we have, we're going to come out fighting."

With what? The Hawks still have two former All-Stars in Abdur-Rahim and Theo Ratliff and a rising star in Jason Terry -- but they will have to compensate for the absence of Robinson, who, whatever his shortcomings as a ballhandler and a defender, still scored 20.8 points a night.

After Robinson, Abdur-Rahim (19.9 points) and Terry (17.9), there was a significant dropoff. Ratliff, however, said Robinson's shoot-first mentality hurt the Hawks because players often competed to rush up shots, damaging team chemistry.

"You need a guy that can step up and get you 20 points a game, but you can find that within the team," said Ratliff, the league's reigning shot-blocking king. "If you're getting [points] with the sacrifice of team play, it's no good."

Said Stotts, "In the games we played without Glenn, the team took it upon [itself] to play together. The sum is greater than the parts. It's important that they see that and they believe that. You can play well together and win a lot of games."

That's something the Hawks realized in the second half last season, when they missed the playoffs for the fourth straight year. They moved the ball around, took better shots and had success. They also became upbeat that the playoff drought could end.

"The way we finished the season -- that left them with a good [taste] in their mouth," general manager Billy Knight said. "We certainly aren't making any guarantees . . . but we're cautiously optimistic. This team feels maybe this time it can happen for them."

But the list of doubters could fill a few Philips Arenas.

[emeans]

That is the funniest thing to me with all sports teams. Teammates always rag on ex-teammates after they leave. Why not bring these things up while they are there? Why is everything so good when they are teammates but they are always the problem when they leave?

This happens on all levels in all sports (football, baseball, and basketball) and it is funny to me.

I am not saying Glenn was not a problem, I just don't understand why these things are not dealt with while they are teammates.

[Weez]

you can't take that crap (bashing of teammates/teammate being selfish) to the media while that player is still with the team unless the team is winning to some degree...(aka Shaq and Kobe, even Ray and GRob) and you're looking for answers/ways to improve...

airing it to the media would be, shall we say, an unwise decision for "chemistry"

[Diesel]

What does it do to air it to the media now???

For too long, we have seen it and it's more than just one guy...

When we lost in the beginning... It was JR Rider.

When we lost again.... It was Lenny.

When we lost again.... It was JJ.

When we lost again.... It was Deke... Slowing down the offense.

When we lost again.... It was Nazr... No defense.

When we lost again.... It was Lon... No structure.

When we lost again... . it was Big Dog... Taking up all the shots.

The problem is bigger than 1 guy.

The problem is NO Leadership.

The problem is NO PG.

The problem is NO Plan.

No Leadership. Had we had Smitty, Mookie, Deke, Hendu, and Big Dog, do you think Big Dog would have been as big of a problem as he was with this past team?

No PG. Had we had Miller here instead of JT, do you think Big Dog would have been such a problem?? I think Miller would have handled the offense a lot better.

No Plan. This is the biggest of all problems. We got too many pieces that don't really fit together. SAR is a low post guy. JT is an uptempo guy. Theo belongs with a big PF and SAR needs a big bodied C. Theo needs a defensive supporting cast and all we have is JT, SAR, and Big Dog. The lack of a plan is the biggest problem that we have had. It's hard to focus a game plan when you don't define your players...

[Weez]

Actually, I "like" the way things are set right now, and aren't so sure about some of your "certainties."

We now have an athletic team, or at least above average athleticism, at every starting position. There's no reason that with a full, healthy roster to go into training camp with a full coaching staff that we can't solve many of the things you pointed out...this team should plan to push the ball...esp because we're young, i.e. we would most likely turn the ball over some/foce shots in the half court (esp. SJax). Theo can certainly run...he's much, much more mobile than most centers out there...

out of curiousity, what is the reasoning behind your constant yammering that Reef needs a big bodied C behind him? That Theo needs a big PF beside him (did he have that in Philly?)?

The most important thing on this team is going to be leadership.

a) Coaching staff; now set, with more "surplus" than has been here since most can remember with four assts.

b) Reef's team again, plus it's not his first year in Atl...he's got to say it's his team...

c)...the most important one on the court - JT. He's off his rookie contract. He knows he's going to be playing pg, and he knows (somewhat well) the people who are going to be playing alongside him - he's got to stop this nonsense he spouted off last year about being young and assume a playoff Bibby-like attitude, i.e. "this is Webber's team...but I'm not afraid to take the last/clutch shots. I'm the leader, the floor general."

[thecampster]

IR - "out of curiousity, what is the reasoning behind your constant yammering that Reef needs a big bodied C behind him?"

Because both are undersized at their position.

Reef is a tweener forward. A little big/bulky for SF, a little small to be a true PF (but give him huge props for effort).

Ratliff doesn't have the body to stop a "Back to the basket" true center. Stop Ostertag...absolutely. Stop Jermaine O.Neal on the drive...no problem. Stop Zydrunas Ilgauskas 3 feet from the hoop..."NOT A SHOT IN JERSEY". He just isn't that type of guy...though phenominal. To keep his team mates from constantly exposing themselves by having to rotate against a big body, back to the basket center...Ratliff would need a box em out, cover the lane, put the other guy on his [censored] power forward to get his back...Reef isn't big enough for that.

[Weez]

We've traveled this road again, and I agree about Theo's abilities against such centers...but who are they in the East? Who are they in general?

As for Reef...he's not undersized. He's = Webber in size, and size is an argument that you'll never hear about him...mentality and toughness could use an upgrade perhaps, but it's not a size issue, nor really a strength one...he's plenty big enough, mobile enough...

[thecampster]

IR - "As for Reef...he's not undersized. He's = Webber in size, and size is an argument that you'll never hear about him"

Let me start by saying Reef is awesome but I'm just backing Diesel's premise that they don't compliment each other in their current roles.

What follows is Reef, and his size compared to the top PF's in the game and then the top SF in the game (forgive me if I leave out someone's favorite.).

You'll see he's either and or a little shorter/thinner than the PF's listed and a little thicker than the SF's listed.

Shareef Abdur-Rahim #3 | Power Forward | Atlanta Hawks

Height: 6-9 Weight: 240

Elton Brand #42 | Power Forward | Los Angeles Clippers

Height: 6-8 Weight: 265

Juwan Howard #5 | Power Forward | Orlando Magic

Height: 6-9 Weight: 260

Karl Malone #32 | Power Forward | Los Angeles Lakers

Height: 6-9 Weight: 256

Rasheed Wallace #30 | Power Forward | Trail Blazers

Height: 6-11 Weight: 230

Chris Webber #4 | Power Forward | Sacramento Kings

Height: 6-10 Weight: 245

Pau Gasol #16 | Power Forward | Memphis Grizzlies

Height: 7-0 Weight: 227

Kevin Garnett #21 | Small Forward | Minnesota Timberwolves

Height: 6-11 Weight: 220

Matt Harpring #15 | Small Forward | Utah Jazz

Height: 6-7 Weight: 231

Shawn Marion #31 | Small Forward | Phoenix Suns

Height: 6-7 Weight: 215

Jamal Mashburn #24 | Small Forward | New Orleans Hornets

Height: 6-8 Weight: 247

Glenn Robinson #13 | Small Forward | Philadelphia 76ers

Height: 6-7 Weight: 230

Peja Stojakovic #16 | Small Forward | Sacramento Kings

Height: 6-10 Weight: 229

[Weez]

So Basically, what you've said is that Reef is of slighter build than:

Malone - I hate, but arguably the best pf in the hx of the game and really hit the weights for many many years

Brand - who's "undersized" in terms of height (and probably isn't 6-8), but considerably wider, probably stronger.

J. Howard - who's same height, 15 lbs more...but not as talented...probably had the same "hype at their peaks"

The rest, regardless of being taller or shorter, a pf/tweener, such as Gasol/ Garnett/ Wallace, ~ all of who play pf (only one a better outside shot) ~ weigh less; all of the "true sf's," including Mash, are lighter, if not shorter (exc. Peja)

I'm just not seeing "undersized," esp. in the East...

and about GRob...please...we know he needs to lose about 10 to 15...

[Gambit99]

I believe that this is the most complete team that we've had in since rebuilding.

It's not all about size al Ben Wallace.

It's not all about losing Glenn. Orlando only has one 20pter, 76ers only has one 20pter, Lakers have 2, Spurs had 2, Kings had 1 and a half, NJ has 2.

But it's really about how well you can be consistant as a team. Spurs are a team, Lakers are a team, NJ is a team and that my friends is what makes the difference in winning championships. If these Hawks understand this and complete the mission set forth they will win games.

[thecampster]

The point I'm making is he is a little smaller and not intimdating enough on the boards or the defensive end to make up for Ratliff's lack of size.

Good enough by himself, absolutely but big enough to get Theo back, NO!!!

Don't make me compare size for Theo against other centers.

Oh alright, I will.

Theo Ratliff #42 | Forward-Center | Atlanta Hawks

Height: 6-10 Weight: 230

Dikembe Mutombo #55 | Center | New Jersey Nets

Height: 7-2 Weight: 265

Alonzo Mourning #33 | Center | New Jersey Nets

Height: 6-10 Weight: 261

Zydrunas Ilgauskas #11 | Center | Cleveland Cavaliers

Height: 7-3 Weight: 260

Brendan Haywood #00 | Center | Washington Wizards

Height: 7-0 Weight: 268

Jamaal Magloire #21 | Center | New Orleans Hornets

Height: 6-11 Weight: 259

Jason Collins #35 | Center | New Jersey Nets

Height: 7-0 Weight: 260

Michael Doleac #51 | Center | New York Knicks

Height: 6-11 Weight: 262

Now as you can plainly see, all of these are Centers in the east. All are significantly bigger than Theo creating back to the basket match up issues that mean SAR may have to give help one way or another and still be able to muscle for rebounds.

this is what diesel (who I rarely agree with) means and he's right.

[Weez]

See, now we're getting somewhere. However, this is the part of the argument about which I agree with you...Theo is in fact "undersized."

On Offense: Hopefully it won't matter much as Reef will draw most of the attention and some double teams, combined with (hope) more uptempo play, thus leaving fewer back to the basket chances for Theo...plus he likes to curl and take the six foot jumper anyhow, no jump hooks from him.

On D: yeah, it's a problem. However, review that list again. I completely agree with Mourning, Big Z, maybe, maybe Deke (stone hands who may not even be in the East)...and Haywood, who gave Theo fits last year if I recall correctly (for whatever reasons, probably the ones we're discussing).

If Doleac or Collins consistently take him in the post, then he ought to be traded while he still has any value at all...

[thecampster]

Deke will probably end up in NY or Bos.

Toronto is a player here too, all east teams.

All 3 have hinted they have a spot for him and he would want to play in Jersey's division now.

Utah has cap room.

Denver would welcome him back.

Back to Theo, this is why Robinson was so bad for this team. His lazy defense left an already taxed, undersized center to defend his man, occasionally to offer help weakside for Reef and to watch for Robinson's man coming free on the back door cut night after night. Newble chased down his man, when robinson wouldn't and it left Ratliff with one less direction to think about.

A bigger SF (Height wise) would greatly help the squad or a true PF moving the big Shareef to SF would eliminate one of those 3 defensive zones for Ratliff...

ie. Kemp at PF, SAR at SF means the other teams power foward isn't a concern when we're on defense. Also, the other teams small forward (cept for KG) can't post Reef meaning Reef can play up on him away from the basket forcing them drive.

Just my philosophy.

I just think we're relying alot this year for Nazr's foot, Crawford's knee and Hendu's body to play big minutes for us again at the 4 and 5.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

We now have an athletic team, or at least above average athleticism, at every starting position.

---

Athleticism is one thing... We can run... But how many ball handlers do we have? When we are on the break and JT can't hit the open man... then what? I thought we were athletic when we lined up with Nazr/SAR/DJ/Glover/JT??

In reply to:

---

out of curiousity, what is the reasoning behind your constant yammering that Reef needs a big bodied C behind him? That Theo needs a big PF beside him (did he have that in Philly?)?

---

Yes. Theo had big PFs in Philly. Ty Hill and Matt Geiger were his 7 foot counterparts at PF in Philly. They took up his slack. They gaurded his back. Theo is only 235. What that means is that He's just a little heavier than Glover. When compared to Brian Grant, Alonzo Morning, and Antonio Davis... Theo is small potatoes.

In reply to:

---

Coaching staff; now set, with more "surplus" than has been here since most can remember with four assts.

---

Actually, I agree. We have some experience.

In reply to:

---

Reef's team again, plus it's not his first year in Atl...he's got to say it's his team...

---

Yeah... and other teams will attack Reef. If Reef doesn't learn to pass out of the post, having his own team won't mean much.

In reply to:

---

JT. He's off his rookie contract. He knows he's going to be playing pg, and he knows (somewhat well) the people who are going to be playing alongside him - he's got to stop this nonsense he spouted off last year about being young and assume a playoff Bibby-like attitude, i.e. "this is Webber's team...but I'm not afraid to take the last/clutch shots. I'm the leader, the floor general."

---

I'm afraid what you saw a lot of last year was JT playing for the big contract. Hopefully, this year that won't be a distraction. But he worked hard for assists... Too hard. So hard that he didn't run the offense or create an offensive flow, instead, he did one of two things...

1. Threw the ball to Big Dog or Reef and hoped they scored.

2. gave up the offense and went to find his shot..

JT has to take control of the offense. That means set the tempo... That means direct traffic. That means call plays and recognize defenses. It's been 4 years. Why do you think Nobody would give JT a good look. Even the deal that Utah offered was a JOKE considering what JT feels he is worth. Teams apprehension wasn't all about the Hawks matching ability... Because as we saw in the end, we still had to add up the money... the apprehension was mainly about sinking a lot of money into a guy who hasn't shown that he can run an offense in 4 years. All JT has shown in 4 years is that he is a SG in a PG's body.

So this yr, there should be no more excuses...

[Diesel]

You're right in that it's not about size....

However, you're wrong when you say that that applies to Reef.

The guys you mention have something Reef doesn't have right now..

The Mentality of a PF.

Let' consider a few...

Tim Duncan. That's a PF. He's bigger than Reef... Yes... But he also plays bigger than Reef. He dominates every player he faces, offensively and defensively.

Webber. PF. Webber could have a Sf's game. BUT the thing about CWebb is his tenacity. Look at a Sactown game. Catch the Scowl... Similar to Reef, CWebb has his disappearing acts... However, he's more furocious..

Brand. PF. He has the mentality of a PF even though he's undersized. He's listed at 6'8"... I've seen him up close, I would call him a 6'6 1/2".But one thing about him... He's a monster. Plain and simple. He outworks, outhustles, outrebounds... He's similar to Rodman in how he rebounds... But Rodman gave more effort.

Oneal... He's not even a PF by game. By his game he's closer to a C. But he plays the same way. Strong. No finease.

Where does Reef fall.

Well, he's more furocious than Antoine Walker. He's less than say Karl Malone.

He's more polished than Brand. He's less polished than Dirk.

His defense is close to Walker's.

His rebounding is not as good as Brand's but a little better than Murphy's.

Reef is a PF because he doesn't shoot well enough to be a Sf. However, his mentality is not like other Pfs. Mentally, he's no Karl Malone or Elton Brand... But he's also not Walker or Van Horn.

Can he be changed?? I don't see why not. Rodman was changed. Malone was changed. Reef can be changed... But more importantly he has to have the mentality that he's the man.

[Diesel]

Without more defensive players, Theo is a waste. Teams TARGET Theo...

I submit that's what Washington did when Grob wasn't there.

Jahida white, Kwame, and Etan Thomas came at Theo for the first 2 periods with back to the basket low post moves.

Teams target Theo because they know that he's doesn't have the weight and if they can back him down they can force him to foul.

I also submit... Tractor Trailor and Magloire. * Theo did silence PJ.

But Reef is not Ty Hill or Geiger who is able to cover Theo. That's why I was hoping that we could get someone who matched SAR better. A BIG C who could rebound. I think Dampiere would be a better fit here than Theo.

I would still do Theo/First for Damp/Richardson.

If not that, then we need to get an enforcer off the bench...

If Ty Hill were available, invite him. He's going to pull down some boards either way.

[Plainview1981]

I agree about Tyrone Hill. He can still be a decent player..

[censored], give old @ss Charles Oakley a call. He can give us

the tough minutes that Hendu and Nazr can't. Honestly

though, Hendu is a better post defender than Theo is.

[censored], Hendu is about 20 pounds heavier and only an

inch shorter.

This team still didn't fix it's defensive problems. The

funny thing is that if you play good defense you will

stay in games and not get blown out. Too many Reef/

JT and probably Dion are all libilities on defense.

Diesel you bring up something about JT. Perhaps he did

try to hard to get the big contract and he forced some

things he shouldn't have. I felt he actually played decent

defense when he started at PG two years ago...Dre/Baron

and other PG's had bad shooting games againest JT the

second half of the year two years ago....But last year it

seemed all about collecting assist and putting up the

best possible numbers...And since bad defense doesn't

really show up in the stats sheet he probably figured

that he didn't really need to worry about it.

I don't know if JT's increased upper body power is going

to help him. It isn't like other PG's abused him in the post..

He was a bad defensive player because he doesn't under

stand defensive positioning all that well. And he doesn't

read players, but he just reacts...It doesn't work that

way.