Illegal Defense

[thecampster]

I've been kind of quiet on this subject because I don't like sounding like a whiner but has anyone else noticed that the Celts pack the lane in an obvious illegal defense fairly regularly and it isn't called?

[thecampster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbkKCh9mnMYexamples at 1:55, 2:10, really obvious one at 2:24 (pierce standing in the lane, twin double teamed there. 3 celts, 2 in the lane, 1 hawk).2:39 similar. 2:43. Borderline 3:40 most are Pierce or KG.

[MaceCase]

I think you are thinking of the earlier incarnation of illegal defense where players had to be on the same side of the court as their defensive assignment no matter what. The current incarnation just means you can't stand in the lane for more than 3 seconds unless you are within arms reach of your assignment but you can send you entire team in there as long as they reset every 2.9 seconds. I will give you that the Celts have been a lil iffy though because I noticed two games ago during an offensive possession where Joe was isoing on the opposite side of the court and Marv keep looking at the official and pointing at Pierce because he was 15 feet off of him and camped with a foot in the lane for most the possession but the official just shrugged and kept looking away. It's the Celts though, their entire defense and offense is predicated on being a fraction below and over what is legal or illegal. You see it in their moving screens, their borderline fouls, their travelling, their overloading entire sides with little respect to the key and holding guys when they try to get around screens. The thing is that they spend all season doing it so refs call it differently and just explain it away as vet moxy.

[dlpin]

To be a bit more precise, the 3 second count is reset when:" (1) a player is in the act of shooting, (2) there is a loss of team control, (3) the defender is actively guarding an opponent, (4) the defender completely clears the 16-foot lane or (5) it is imminent the defender will become legal."So a player can actually stay in the lane for the entire possession, even if they are mostly not guarding anyone, as long as they get within arms length and guarding an opponent every 2.9 seconds. Not to mention that if they are guarding a player with the ball, there is no count even if he is far from that player (no arm length requirement).

[Diesel]

Between the illegal defenses, the moving screens, the goaltends, and the fouls not called, the Celts have had it their way.

[Admin]

Between the illegal defenses, the moving screens, the goaltends, and the fouls not called, the Celts have had it their way.

And yet the Celtics had more fouls called against them in game 4 than the Hawks did. We can make excuses all day long but if we don't take care of the ball and if we don't attack the basket it doesn't matter what happens with the refs.Just to expand on the fouls thing, the Celtics have actually been called for 7 more fouls this series than the Hawks have. Sure doesn't feel like that but the nimbers don't lie.

[MaceCase]

They get called for more, correct, but not as much as their aggressive play would dictate. But that is not something to complain about though because like I said, they set the tone at the beginning of seasons for how they are going to play. Refs will ring em up but after awhile it tends to have this affect on them where they just acknowledege that that is how they play and will later on only call them on plays that are really egregious.

[Admin]

They get called for more, correct, but not as much as their aggressive play would dictate. But that is not something to complain about though because like I said, they set the tone at the beginning of seasons for how they are going to play. Refs will ring em up but after awhile it tends to have this affect on them where they just acknowledege that that is how they play and will later on only call them on plays that are really egregious.

And that's exactly how we should play and probably would play if Zaza were starting at C. But the fouls in this series are FAR more even than we've seen in previous series against the Heat and Magic (obviously).

[thecampster]

I think you are thinking of the earlier incarnation of illegal defense where players had to be on the same side of the court as their defensive assignment no matter what. The current incarnation just means you can't stand in the lane for more than 3 seconds unless you are within arms reach of your assignment but you can send you entire team in there as long as they reset every 2.9 seconds.I will give you that the Celts have been a lil iffy though because I noticed two games ago during an offensive possession where Joe was isoing on the opposite side of the court and Marv keep looking at the official and pointing at Pierce because he was 15 feet off of him and camped with a foot in the lane for most the possession but the official just shrugged and kept looking away. It's the Celts though, their entire defense and offense is predicated on being a fraction below and over what is legal or illegal. You see it in their moving screens, their borderline fouls, their travelling, their overloading entire sides with little respect to the key and holding guys when they try to get around screens. The thing is that they spend all season doing it so refs call it differently and just explain it away as vet moxy.

No, I'm using modern illegal D. Remember these are all highlights (all I could find on short notice) but in 3 of the possessions, Pierce is circling inside the lane following the ball without guarding anyone. In one, he's guarding Marvin who runs to the corner and Pierce is still in the lane with 2 other Celts while JJ has the ball at the 3 point line.

[EAambassador]

What do you expect when you go against an organization who has won, what, 16 championships?

They get called for more, correct, but not as much as their aggressive play would dictate. But that is not something to complain about though because like I said, they set the tone at the beginning of seasons for how they are going to play. Refs will ring em up but after awhile it tends to have this affect on them where they just acknowledege that that is how they play and will later on only call them on plays that are really egregious.

I agree, we have not consistently played at a hard level for the refs to give us that benefit of doubt that the Celtics has earned.I do not like KG and Pierce but I do wish we had them or at least some resemblance of them. KG is constantly vocal and in the younger player ears and Pierce is constantly stepping up and hitting big shots. If only Joe was like one of them mentally, man we would be nice, but instead we get a mute passive adult. Edited May 8, 2012 by EAambassador

[Admin]

examples at 1:55, 2:10, really obvious one at 2:24 (pierce standing in the lane, twin double teamed there. 3 celts, 2 in the lane, 1 hawk).2:39 similar. 2:43. Borderline 3:40 most are Pierce or KG.

Every example you pointed to are legal as the players are stepping in and out of the paint or there is a reset via the rules dlpin pointed to. Remember that they don't have to come completely out of the paint, they only have to get their toe out of the paint and I believe it only has to touch the line.

[ATLSmith]

I've seen Smoove parked in the lane for an eternity guarding no-one but the basket and nothing was called. It's just something the officials don't call too often.I will admit that the Celtics clog the lane, it has been the focal point of their defense for quite a while. Force the Hawks to shoot jumpers... not a bad idea at all....