Cap space article.

[JETSET]

The same type of people who dog Al Jefferson, are the same type of people who were dogging Brook Lopez. Lopez has his flaws in certain areas, but there is NO DOUBT that he is an elite scoring center ( in today's NBA ). And those types of players are not easy to come by.

Not around here though. People would rather spend 6 million to retain Zaza, than to spend 13 million to get Jefferson.

Did you even watch the Bulls/Nets series? Lopez's lack of defense was one of the main reasons the Nets lost. They ran the pick and roll with Noah non-stop and Lopez was too slow to guard either side of the pick-and-roll. Once again, another big man who looks all nice and shiny on offense but will never lead his team to winning anything significant. There is a lot more to this game than post offense.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Korver's defense at times, is atrocious. But people around here love that dude.

Jeff Teague's defense at times, is atrocioius. But people around here love that dude.

So was Al Horford's defense. So was Josh Smith's defense, although far less frequently than anyone else on the team.

Keep talking yourself out from getting this dude, and I'll keep posting clips

The Hawks blew Utah out in this game.

This was Jefferson

And this was Horford

Two of the best PF/C in the game going head up against each other. Like an old school battle between Olajuwon and Ewing. And yet, people don't want these two on the same team TOGETHER?

Matter of fact, some of you want to trade Horford as well.

Forget that. Put these two on the same team together, to see if they can create the Dynamic Duo in Atlanta.

[JETSET]

By bringing up Lopez, you are actually helping to prove our point. This so-called "elite post scorer" couldn't help his team win a series against a depleted Bulls roster that was missing 2 of its best 3 players and was down to their 3rd string PG.

[MaceCase]

Yes and the same person who was dogging Jamal Crawford for being one dimensional even though he was an elite shot creator is here championing Al Jefferson. Always love consistency in a person's argument. Dog Jamal, dog Korver even though no reasonable fan thinks that they are irreplaceable or should be on a albatross contract but then get all high and mighty on Al Jefferson being able to elevate this team and being worthy of 13 million. Geez, I love it.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Did you even watch the Bulls/Nets series? Lopez's lack of defense was one of the main reasons the Nets lost. They ran the pick and roll with Noah non-stop and Lopez was too slow to guard either side of the pick-and-roll. Once again, another big man who looks all nice and shiny on offense but will never lead his team to winning anything significant. There is a lot more to this game than post offense.

Lopez was at fault for Game 6 ONLY. He was busting Noah's azz the entire series, up until that point.

But even with that, the Nets aren't even in the playoffs, without the play of Lopez throughout the year.

But go ahead and dog that dude, and act like he isn't a good player that is an overall asset to a team. I guess fans like you value the "toughness" of Zaza over the production of guys like Lopez and Jefferson.

Some of you better keep in mind that it's not like we have some dynamic scoring guard or wing on this team. We're going to have to get scoring from somewhere. I'm just tired of the "chuck and duck" offense that was supposed to be leaps and bounds better than anything we had here, but couldn't even average 100 ppg throughout the year, and got completely shut down in the playoffs.

Take it back old school, and run the offense through the big men, instead of trying to set up inconsistent jumpshooters.

[JETSET]

Horford had his best game of the year that night, so once again you are helping to prove us right with your own posts. Jefferson went off that game, on a undersized Horford, and they still lost because he allowed Horford to get any shot he wanted that night. This is exactly what we are saying. Jefferson can put up a statline that will make you say WOW but his team still loses because he provides no defense.

As for Korver. Here's a little pro-tip: The Center position is the most important position on the floor defensively. Korver not playing good defense has a far less effect on the team defense than having a Center who can't play defense. and I don't even care to have Korver back unless we get Dwight.

[JETSET]

Lopez was at fault for Game 6 ONLY. He was busting Noah's azz the entire series, up until that point.

But even with that, the Nets aren't even in the playoffs, without the play of Lopez throughout the year.

But go ahead and dog that dude, and act like he isn't a good player that is an overall asset to a team. I guess fans like you value the "toughness" of Zaza over the production of guys like Lopez and Jefferson.

Some of you better keep in mind that it's not like we have some dynamic scoring guard or wing on this team. We're going to have to get scoring from somewhere. I'm just tired of the "chuck and duck" offense that was supposed to be leaps and bounds better than anything we had here, but couldn't even average 100 ppg throughout the year, and got completely shut down in the playoffs.

Take it back old school, and run the offense through the big men, instead of trying to set up inconsistent jumpshooters.

What about game 7 where Noah had like 24 pts and 14 boards? Brook is slow and cannot defend the PnR and this killed the Nets throughout the series.

[AHF]

Elite interior players improve their team's records consistently. Anyone expecting Utah to be really hurting when Jefferson leaves? Even his last T-Wolves team somehow improved and has anyone looked at that lineup? I don't know how that team could have performed better than the prior year's squad with Jefferson - if Jefferson is truly an elite big man.

Jefferson isn't garbage by any means but if you are looking for a player that is going to be the highest paid player on the team (which he would for the Hawks) and he isn't transformational, that is a potential problem.

Edited May 17, 2013 by AHF

[JETSET]

The money that it takes to acquire Lopez or Jefferson (basically a max) is Ludacris (ooh ooh) when they provide nothing on defense.

I will more than happily take Zaza as a backup on a 4 million deal over one of these 1 dimensional clowns any day of the week. Atleast Zaza will leave us flexibility with the cap and not stuck on a treadmill for the next 5 years.

Why would you be happy with mediocrity when he have dealt with it for the past 7 years?

[AHF]

Let's look at the northcyde formula for the team and he can tell us where it goes:

Offseason moves

You get Jefferson to add with Horford.

Al Jefferson 4 years, 60M (starting at $14M)

You go out and get another defensive center or PF ( and sign him to a one year contract, if you want to retain "cap flexibility" ).

Samuel Dalembert signed for 1 year, $8M

You go out and get a wing defender who can give you timely offense

Matt Barnes 3 years, 9M (3M per year)

And you decide if Teague is the PG to lead this team.

Jeff Teague 4 years, 32M

Everything else you can add on the cheap, whether it be shooters or other role players.

Question #1 - So what do we win next season with:

Jeff Teague

Lou Williams / John Jenkins

Matt Barnes

Al Horford / Ivan Johnson / Mike Scott

Al Jefferson / Samuel Dalembert

+ cheapo players and 2 first round picks?

Question #2 - What is the plan for the future?

Next Offseason - Cap at 66M

Teague 8M

Barnes 3M

Lou 5.5M

Jenkins 1.3M

1st Round Picks 2.6M

Horford 12M

Jefferson 14.7M

Commitment not including cap holds: 47M

Commitment with cap holds roughly: 50M

That gives us enough money to make a near max offer to a single free agent (about 14M to spend if we keep our 2014 first round pick and around 16M if we unload our first round pick). Which 2014 FA is the max guy that will turn that team into contenders? Luol Deng? Or maybe the hope is that mid-round first round picks will push the team to the next level?

That looks like a formula for all aboard the mediocrity train.

Edited May 17, 2013 by AHF

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Yes and the same person who was dogging Jamal Crawford for being one dimensional even though he was an elite shot creator is here championing Al Jefferson. Always love consistency in a person's argument. Dog Jamal, dog Korver even though no reasonable fan thinks that they are irreplaceable or should be on a albatross contract but then get all high and mighty on Al Jefferson being able to elevate this team and being worthy of 13 million. Geez, I love it.

Jamal was a GUNNER . . . period. He had one good year in Atlanta, and reverted back to his inconsistent 41% shooting self. He looked to be turning the corner with the Clippers this year, only to shoot 39% FG and 27% 3FG against the Grizzlies.

But even I will admit that Jamal did help us while he was here. He just shouldn't have been trusted to be the #1 or #2 option scorer.

Meanwhile, Al Jefferson has never shot below 49% FG at any point in his career. Al Jefferson has never averaged less than 9 rebounds ( on a per 36 minute basis ) at any point in his career.

And when he and the Jazz got to the playoffs last year, he averaged 18 ppg - 8 rebs - and shot 53%.

But like I said . . . go ahead and give me some alternative option to what we can do, if the "pipe dream" of landing Dwight Howard doesn't happen. Tell me how we'll be better off retaining Zaza and adding Tiago Splitter to play alongside Horford.

LOL @ dogging a guy who can actually ball, and would rather retain scrubs.

[MaceCase]

True story, Jamal Crawford has an equal career TS% to Al Jefferson. Yup, one of the most inefficient guards in the NBA is equal to greatest post scorer since Tim Duncan in scoring efficiency. QUICK! CUT TO THE STRAWMAN, ZAZAZAZAZAZAZAZAZAZAZA!

[AHF]

True story, Jamal Crawford has an equal career TS% to Al Jefferson. Yup, one of the most inefficient guards in the NBA is equal to greatest post scorer since Tim Duncan in scoring efficiency. QUICK! CUT TO THE STRAWMAN, ZAZAZAZAZAZAZAZAZAZAZA!

Be fair. Al Jefferson scores at an efficiency of .531 TS% while Jamal Crawford is at .528 TS%.

They are about as equal as a guard and big man get but Jefferson owns that slight edge. Let him enjoy his .003% greater scoring efficiency.

[Kimsey]

Personally, I'm not totally anti Jefferson. But if you make him an integral part he's proven to have failed with two teams already, people have to see that third strike I guess. If you add him to Horf, Jeff, Joe, Josh, and Marvin that woulda been ideal but a Splitter is a better piece to a rebuilding roster.

[Ruckus]

I don't know if Jefferson is or isn't the right fit here but from a dollars perspective... if Josh is worth 13 mill a season, Jefferson is too.

[Admin]

Jefferson is probably the most gifted scoring C in the league or darn close to it but he offers nothing else. He's slow up and down the court and makes Lopez look like an elite defender. For $12 million he might not be a terrible option if we strike out elsewhere on Cs but we'd need someone like Iggy at SF and a stud defensive PG and maybe SG who can also score.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Horford had his best game of the year that night, so once again you are helping to prove us right with your own posts. Jefferson went off that game, on a undersized Horford, and they still lost because he allowed Horford to get any shot he wanted that night. This is exactly what we are saying. Jefferson can put up a statline that will make you say WOW but his team still loses because he provides no defense.

As for Korver. Here's a little pro-tip: The Center position is the most important position on the floor defensively. Korver not playing good defense has a far less effect on the team defense than having a Center who can't play defense. and I don't even care to have Korver back unless we get Dwight.

Let's look at the northcyde formula for the team and he can tell us where it goes:

Al Jefferson 4 years, 60M (starting at $14M)

Samuel Dalembert signed for 1 year, $8M

Matt Barnes 3 years, 9M (3M per year)

Jeff Teague 4 years, 32M

Question #1 - So what do we win next season with:

Jeff Teague

Lou Williams / John Jenkins

Matt Barnes

Al Horford / Ivan Johnson / Mike Scott

Al Jefferson / Samuel Dalembert

+ cheapo players and 2 first round picks?

Question #2 - What is the plan for the future?

Next Offseason - Cap at 66M

Teague 8M

Barnes 3M

Lou 5.5M

Jenkins 1.3M

1st Round Picks 2.6M

Horford 12M

Jefferson 14.7M

Commitment not including cap holds: 47M

Commitment with cap holds roughly: 50M

That gives us enough money to make a near max offer to a single free agent (about 14M to spend if we keep our 2014 first round pick and around 16M if we unload our first round pick). Which 2014 FA is the max guy that will turn that team into contenders? Luol Deng? Or maybe the hope is that mid-round first round picks will push the team to the next level?

That looks like a formula for all aboard the mediocrity train.

Why are you putting out those ridiculous numbers?

Nobody in their right mind is giving Samuel Dalembert 8 million. That's what YOU GUYS want to do, so that he can drop off the books next summer and retain all of that cap space.

And why would anybody give Matt Barnes a straight up 3 yr - 9 million a year contract? He's a Bi-Annual contract type of player at best that is going to be signed to 1 or 2 year deals for the rest of his career.

And 8 million for Teague? I don't know about that. I want to see the team who believes that Teague is worth a 4/32 contract. My guess is that when Teague hits the open market, he'll get something along the lines of a 4 - 24 or 26 mill type of deal.

No sir. The "Northcyde Plan" would be to keep the team relevant, while retaining some of our cap flexibility. And it would also be to have assets on hand, so that we could possibly execute trades to help the team . . . even if it meant trading off our best talent.

Give me Horford and Jefferson, and I'm pretty sure I could construct a playoff level team, that retained cap flexibility, and have pieces on the squad that I can deal off at any time.

AHF, I'll say what Wretch said before the season. If you're going to "tank", you need to go ALL THE WAY. No such thing as "halfway tanking". Tank it all the way.

- Let Teague walk

- Trade Horford

- and don't bring back any type of talent that will even remotely win you 30 games.

That's how you tank. You don't tell Horford that we're going to throw away an entire season, not do anything, and place all of our hopes in another round of 30 million in cap space and hope we can get a top 3 lottery pick . . . and hope we pick the superstar, instead of the solid starter or bust.

Horford would straight up demand to get out of here, if we started to do that.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

True story, Jamal Crawford has an equal career TS% to Al Jefferson. Yup, one of the most inefficient guards in the NBA is equal to greatest post scorer since Tim Duncan in scoring efficiency. QUICK! CUT TO THE STRAWMAN, ZAZAZAZAZAZAZAZAZAZAZA!

True story . . . Tyson Chandler led the league in TS%. So damn . . . I guess he's a better shooter than Lebron and Durant, who were 2nd and 3rd. Korver was 4th. So I guess he's the 4th most valuable shooter in the league ( even though he can't create his own shot ). And Jose Calderon was 5th. Yep, let's add him before Chris Paul.

There's your strawman.

Horford had his best game of the year that night, so once again you are helping to prove us right with your own posts. Jefferson went off that game, on a undersized Horford, and they still lost because he allowed Horford to get any shot he wanted that night. This is exactly what we are saying. Jefferson can put up a statline that will make you say WOW but his team still loses because he provides no defense.

As for Korver. Here's a little pro-tip: The Center position is the most important position on the floor defensively. Korver not playing good defense has a far less effect on the team defense than having a Center who can't play defense. and I don't even care to have Korver back unless we get Dwight.

It doesn't matter which clip I show of Jefferson. He balls against an undersized Horford. He balls against the huge Roy Hibbert. He balls against Joakim Noah, one of the best defensive centers in the game.

LOL @ Korver not playing defense has far less effect on the team defense. Did you watch the Hawks vs Pacers series? What happened when we tried to have Korver guard George? Not only did George shut Korver down, he torched Korver on the offensive end.

Then Drew FINALLY makes an adjustment, and puts Josh Smith on him . . . a bigger, better defender. Voila . . . George falls back to earth, instead of looking like the 2nd coming of Clyde Drexler.

But that's the mentality around here. Value scrub role players over guys who can actually do something at a very high level.

Edited May 17, 2013 by northcyde

[Buzzard]

I don't understand this comment. Are you saying that if we sign Jefferson, Evans or Pek for more than anyone is willing to spend on them that some lottery team will give us a stud draft pick in exchange for them?

I guess you must have been devastated by the Joe Johnson trade and us not getting some high lottery pick. No one is giving a high lottery pick for Tyreke Evans at $10M/season or Al Jefferson for $14M/season. Signing those players closes off your shot at lottery picks either through taking on undesirable salaries or by being too mediocre to get a top pick.

More than anyone is willing to spend on them? I don't think I said that and since there are only 6 to 8 teams with the cap space to sign them that would also be a very narrow minded view.

Jefferson and pieces got Garnett already. I guess you are assuming no GM out of the 30 in the NBA values these players any more than you. I am assuming there is quite a bit of gray and not all black and white. If Ferry signs them there are at least a few of the 30 who value them as much as he does.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Buzzard

[MaceCase]

True story . . . Tyson Chandler led the league in TS%. So damn . . . I guess he's a better shooter than Lebron and Durant, who were 2nd and 3rd. Korver was 4th. So I guess he's the 4th most valuable shooter in the league ( even though he can't create his own shot ). And Jose Calderon was 5th. Yep, let's add him before Chris Paul.

There's your strawman.

Really, North. This is the childish argument you are going to resort to? Tyson Chandler isn't known as a center who can create his own shot nor a #1 option, he is a finisher on offense. Nothing more and nothing less so a player tasked with doing nothing but that SHOULD have a high TS%. But of course, when comparing between "elite scorers" then you have a legitimate argument in comparing TS%.

But lo! Where does the Elite Al Jefferson stand in efficiency next to his peers of other #1 options? Down in the dregs with the Jamal Crawfords.

So, he's not likely to ever win a DPOY nor get on an All Defense team but his one starling quality is league average at best. Why exactly would we want him, and for 13+ million?!

But but but, tell me how I'm not making sense by comparing some bench player to Kobe next! Yea, that will show me. I know you suck at understanding stats so it's no surprise that you can't establish context.

Edited May 17, 2013 by MaceCase