James Harden discussion (from Howard & Paul dinner thread)

[EazyRoc]

You can't be serious. Westbrook > Harden when it comes to game impact and it's not even close. Comparing Westbrook to Ellis, SMH quit trolling.

Quit trolling ? Do you even watch basketball ? They both take a high volume of shots (typically pull up jumpers) and convert at relatively low percentages. Westbrooks shot selection might be slightly better and he's better defensively, but they are practically the same player.

[EazyRoc]

Not sure if you are serious? Ellis barely outproduces his opponent and his team is better with him on the court than off it even if he not much help on the court as well. Westbrook greatly outproduces his opponent while being much better for his team on the court than off it. While Westbrook team is still a good team without him, they are a great team with him. Ellis doesn't have close to that impact but Ellis does have a positive impact. Ellis team impact is say just as valuable as Harden. Ellis isn't a good man defender at all but he pass off the ball defense well and he doesn't miss rotations a lot. With that said, Harden overall impact is much greater than Ellis and much less than Westbrook.

Kevin Durant is there to keep Westbrook from playing as selfishly as Monta Ellis does.

[Ruckus]

I take Harden over Wade today. Wade sucks now. His window has closed. He is slow, lazy, and can't shoot for shit. Have you watched the Heat this season? All, and I mean ALL, LeBron.

[Ruckus]

On the other hand, I take Westbrook over Harden all day everyday.

[capstone21]

Can I say something about Paul George...he is a SF not a SG. He played SG because of Granger but with Granger out this season...he moved to his natural position and that is when he really flourished.

[NBASupes]

Kevin Durant is there to keep Westbrook from playing as selfishly as Monta Ellis does.

Westbrook does more in the game than Harden dreams of. There is a reason why Westbrook and Durant starts, Harden comes off the bench like Jamal.

[EazyRoc]

Westbrook does more in the game than Harden dreams of. There is a reason why Westbrook and Durant starts, Harden comes off the bench like Jamal.

The reason was their bench was outrageously weak. Harden is the better basketball player offensively. He's more efficient and he can play off the ball.

[capstone21]

Westbrook does more in the game than Harden dreams of. There is a reason why Westbrook and Durant starts, Harden comes off the bench like Jamal.

That is an absolutely terrible comparison...it was more like Manu in his prime coming off the bench

[NBASupes]

Quit trolling ? Do you even watch basketball ? They both take a high volume of shots (typically pull up jumpers) and convert at relatively low percentages. Westbrooks shot selection might be slightly better and he's better defensively, but they are practically the same player.

I am pretty sure he does which is why is would easily prefer Westbrook over Harden.

I think most of the Westbrook dislike is because he has some questionable decision making skills, doesn't really create for others, and his game isn't the most aesthetically pleasing to watch. Not too mention, he can be a tad inconsistent as well.

Russell can do everything. He can drive the basket. He can shoot the mid range, He can post up on PG's. He can shoot the three decently. He can play off the ball. He can be used as a PG and a SG. He can defend both PG's and SG's. He is freakishly athlete. He has a good understanding of the game even if his decision making is not the best.

They are no where close to the same player. Nothing about Russell Westbrook is predicable. He can be dominate, a lost cause, a pain for a defense, and a treat for a defense.

Harden is basically the same player all the time. Threes, slash, foul and repeat. If it fails, well he fails. On top of that his defense is horrible and his BBIQ is average at best. Most of the time it is below average since his focus isn't great. He does have better court vision than Russell but Russell has better passing ability.

The gap between Westbrook and Harden equals the gap between Joe and Jamal in Atlanta.

That is an absolutely terrible comparison...it was more like Manu in his prime coming off the bench

No, Manu does help his team. Manu issue was his inconsistency. Harden doesn't have inconsistent issues. Harden has team impact issues which is what Jamal had.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Leadership

[NBASupes]

Can I say something about Paul George...he is a SF not a SG. He played SG because of Granger but with Granger out this season...he moved to his natural position and that is when he really flourished.

Paul George is a SG and has always been a SG but he can play SF like Tracy McGrady did.

[EazyRoc]

I am pretty sure he does which is why is would easily prefer Westbrook over Harden. I think most of the Westbrook dislike is because he has some questionable decision making skills, doesn't really create for others, and his game isn't the most aesthetically pleasing to watch. Not too mention, he can be a tad inconsistent as well. Russell can do everything. He can drive the basket. He can shoot the mid range, He can post up on PG's. He can shoot the three decently. He can play off the ball. He can be used as a PG and a SG. He can defend both PG's and SG's. He is freakishly athlete. He has a good understanding of the game even if his decision making is not the best. They are no where close to the same player. Nothing about Russell Westbrook is predicable. He can be dominate, a lost cause, a pain for a defense, and a treat for a defense. Harden is basically the same player all the time. Threes, slash, foul and repeat. If it fails, well he fails. On top of that his defense is horrible and his BBIQ is average at best. Most of the time it is below average since his focus isn't great. He does have better court vision than Russell but Russell has better passing ability. The gap between Westbrook and Harden equals the gap between Joe and Jamal in Atlanta. No, Manu does help his team. Manu issue was his inconsistency. Harden doesn't have inconsistent issues. Harden has team impact issues which is what Jamal had.

He cant do any of that stuff you say consistently or he'd be a whole lot better than he is. His jumpshot is inconsistent, but he absolutely falls in love with it. Sometimes, they will be bad shots and sometimes they take away from his teammate who's probably the best scorer in our league. Harden is a smart balanced player who doesn't take a bunch of terrible shots, can create for himself and others, and play off the ball. Westbrook will probably never be good off the ball, because he can't hit shots consistently. I don't get how a guy can be knocked for driving the lane or hitting 3s, but a guy who shoots a bunch of pull up 15-17 footers is praised like he's a top PG in the league. No thanks. Westbrook is an athletic, undersized 2 guard who has issues with shot selection and decision making. Gee! That sounds an awful lot like Monta Ellis.

[NBASupes]

He cant do any of that stuff you say consistently or he'd be a whole lot better than he is. His jumpshot is inconsistent, but he absolutely falls in love with it. Sometimes, they will be bad shots and sometimes they take away from his teammate who's probably the best scorer in our league. Harden is a smart balanced player who doesn't take a bunch of terrible shots, can create for himself and others, and play off the ball. Westbrook will probably never be good off the ball, because he can't hit shots consistently. I don't get how a guy can be knocked for driving the lane or hitting 3s, but a guy who shoots a bunch of pull up 15-17 footers is praised like he's a top PG in the league. No thanks. Westbrook is an athletic, undersized 2 guard who has issues with shot selection and decision making. Gee! That sounds an awful lot like Monta Ellis.

I am indifferent to your take on Westbrook and Harden. While Harden is doing what he does best, it is proven that it doesn't help his team win. While Westbrook can be a mixed bag, it does more good then harm. Look at Durant, while he has the ability to be a great #1, he doesn't have the mentality. Westbrook on the other hand has Kobe's mentality. If it doesn't work, keep doing it till it works. At times, it's great and other times, it's bad.

Harden does take terrible shots, he just doesn't play outside of himself which is key point to note. He also holds the ball too long for any guard and he doesn't make it easier for his teammates at all. Harden rarely creates shots for others and he absolutely doesn't play off the ball well at all. Not even a little bit. He is bad when he doesn't have the ball in his hands and has a tendency to stand around. It was bad when he was in OKC but it's 10 times worse in Houston.

See, now you are BS me and everyone here. One of Westbrook's biggest strengths his off the ball ability. It is one of the reasons why many think he would be better as a SG than a PG but he's too small to be a SG in the NBA. Westbrook's read, cuts, and movement off the ball is 2nd to none. The only player who is a PG who is near his tier off the ball is Tony Parker. At times Kyrie Irving.

I really don't want to talk anymore. The Westbrook statement basically told me your just playing favorites, not reality.

[EazyRoc]

I am indifferent to your take on Westbrook and Harden. While Harden is doing what he does best, it is proven that it doesn't help his team win. While Westbrook can be a mixed bag, it does more good then harm. Look at Durant, while he has the ability to be a great #1, he doesn't have the mentality. Westbrook on the other hand has Kobe's mentality. If it doesn't work, keep doing it till it works. At times, it's great and other times, it's bad. Harden does take terrible shots, he just doesn't play outside of himself which is key point to note. He also holds the ball too long for any guard and he doesn't make it easier for his teammates at all. Harden rarely creates shots for others and he absolutely doesn't play off the ball well at all. Not even a little bit. He is bad when he doesn't have the ball in his hands and has a tendency to stand around. It was bad when he was in OKC but it's 10 times worse in Houston. See, now you are BS me and everyone here. One of Westbrook's biggest strengths his off the ball ability. It is one of the reasons why many think he would be better as a SG than a PG but he's too small to be a SG in the NBA. Westbrook's read, cuts, and movement off the ball is 2nd to none. The only player who is a PG who is near his tier off the ball is Tony Parker. At times Kyrie Irving. I really don't want to talk anymore. The Westbrook statement basically told me your just playing favorites, not reality.

I don't have favorites. Neither are Hawks players and I could care less. No his off the ball movement is not second to none. What do you make up stuff that is virtually impossible to prove and just expect people to accept it as fact. There are SEVERAL players better off the ball including his teammate, Kevin Martin. Also, Westbrook has shot his team out of important games on more than one occasion.Harden was better at creating for others in OKC than he was given credit. He's similar to a young Joe Johnson in that aspect.

[NBASupes]

I don't have favorites. Neither are Hawks players and I could care less. No his off the ball movement is not second to none. What do you make up stuff that is virtually impossible to prove and just expect people to accept it as fact. There are SEVERAL players better off the ball including his teammate, Kevin Martin. Also, Westbrook has shot his team out of important games on more than one occasion.Harden was better at creating for others in OKC than he was given credit. He's similar to a young Joe Johnson in that aspect.

You are the one making stuff up in my opinion. Even when I show you that Westbrook has more positive impact the Thunder are better without Harden than with him and the Houston is better with Harden on the bench than him on the floor. That's a proven stat but I am making stuff up because EazyRoc likes Harden and hates Westbrook. Sure..

[EazyRoc]

You haven't shown ANYTHING.

[NBASupes]

You haven't shown ANYTHING.

I have shown just as much as YOU.

[EazyRoc]

The difference is I haven't claimed to have shown anything. Put up or shut up.

[NBASupes]

The difference is I haven't claimed to have shown anything. Put up or shut up.

1. I have shown information on the first three pages on Harden.

What do you want to know about Harden and Westbrook's game?

I am willing to tell. I was asstired last night. I am doing just fine today.

[EazyRoc]

You have claimed to have shown that Westbrooks team is better with him on the floor than Hardens team when Harden is on the floor. Ill tell you this. Every statistic I've seen contradicts what you're saying. For example, Harden has a higher We/48 than Westbrook both this year AND last year when they were on the same team.

[Admin]

1. I have shown information on the first three pages on Harden.

What do you want to know about Harden and Westbrook's game?

I am willing to tell. I was asstired last night. I am doing just fine today.

Is that in any way similar to butt hurt?