Does this Look Like Ferry's Plan As Well?

[curtmcgirt]

“Rockets general manager Daryl Morey conceived and executed an impeccable plan, gutting his roster, drafting undervalued prospects with low picks [Chandler Parsons], signing undervalued players [Patrick Beverley], snagging restricted free agents with toxic offer sheets [Omer Asik and Jeremy Lin] and assembling the assets to make a trade for a star guard [James Harden].” - Adreian Worj????? from Yahoo.

[*]Roster: Gutted [*]Undervalued prospects: Jenkins, Scott, Muscala, Cunningham [*]Signing undervalued players: Lou, Milsap (for a steal), DeMarre Carrol, Korver [*]Drafting good talent: Schröder, Nogueria [*]Assembling Assets that could be traded for a star: all of the above.

[HawkItus]

Yes. Woj is like the third person to recently break down Houston's plan. I think DF is on the same track. Whether it will work is unknown, but you gotta play to win.

[nitte]

You gotta be lucky also. If OKC did not have that Harden brain fart and Wizards did not join them by rejecting the Harden trade, everything would be different now. No Harden=No Howard. They would probably have the lottery pick this year and next year. Who knows may be we would discuss how successful Morey tanked :-)

[Nicholasp27]

U gotta be lucky in lotto as wellAt least this way you can capitalize when these deals come about and have flexibility to build multiple ways while still having talent around that star when you get himBoston also had assets and flexibility to get kg and Allen back in the dayWe could gut roster and get lucky to beat out the other 5-7 tanking teams for worst record and then get lucky to get top pick and then hope wiggins is the truth and then have no talent around him and be Cleveland with LebronOr we could have good players and flexibility and hope we can pull a Houston or Boston or Miami

[Nicholasp27]

The Harden thing happened because of CBA and will happen more often in future with this CBATeams flexible enough and with right assets to capitalize will be the next wave of contenders (along with wiggins' team)Love is already likely to leave MN at some pointGS may have trouble paying curry and klay and Barnes in future when all off rookie contracts, especially if another of their picks/talent pans outIt's easy when your team has bargain rookie contracts, but that sets them up for danger when they are no longer rookies

Edited July 9, 2013 by Nicholasp27

[AHF]

The Harden thing happened because of CBA and will happen more often in future with this CBATeams flexible enough and with right assets to capitalize will be the next wave of contenders (along with wiggins' team)Love is already likely to leave MN at some pointGS may have trouble paying curry and klay and Barnes in future when all off rookie contracts, especially if another of their picks/talent pans outIt's easy when your team has bargain rookie contracts, but that sets them up for danger when they are no longer rookies

The problem with picking off the 3rd best player with a big offer sheet or a trade is that you are getting someone's third best player. Even when the young guy is valuable, you'd better have a lottery pick to dangle (like Houston had; Boston used; etc.)

[Guest]

Huh. It is almost as if the new CBA is giving teams more ways to stack assets than they had available to them in the past. Strange how that works.

[Nicholasp27]

Harden was okc 3rd best player and look how that worked outIt's not the only thing that can happen...love is MN's best player but they may want a trade because they saved the best max contract for Rubio and he may not wanna re-sign so they'll trade him...and we would have the flexibility to get him if we want since we have good value bigs to return as well as other assets and no bad contractsThere is no certain path to contention...u need luck with draft and with trades/fa...at least we are prepared to strike now unlike the past when we weren't getting lotto OR trades/FAs because we were capped out with overpaid players

[curtmcgirt]

Huh. It is almost as if the new CBA is giving teams more ways to stack assets than they had available to them in the past. Strange how that works.

I completely agree. If you have a smarter GM they can actually work the system to acquire assets in a ton of ways. And more importantly, with the shorter contracts you don't have to live with mistakes for ever. It's like they found a happy medium between the frenzy of baseball signings and trades and the NFL's non guaranteed contracts.

[nitte]

I bet OKC would not do that trade today. Apparently neither OKC nor Washington believed Harden would flourish this much as the main man.

[Plainview1981]

“Rockets general manager Daryl Morey conceived and executed an impeccable plan, gutting his roster, drafting undervalued prospects with low picks [Chandler Parsons], signing undervalued players [Patrick Beverley], snagging restricted free agents with toxic offer sheets [Omer Asik and Jeremy Lin] and assembling the assets to make a trade for a star guard [James Harden].” - Adreian Worj????? from Yahoo.

[*]Roster: Gutted

[*]Undervalued prospects: Jenkins, Scott, Muscala, Cunningham

[*]Signing undervalued players: Lou, Milsap (for a steal), DeMarre Carrol, Korver

[*]Drafting good talent: Schröder, Nogueria

[*]Assembling Assets that could be traded for a star: all of the above.

That might be a plan, but that doesn't mean it will work.

[Plainview1981]

U gotta be lucky in lotto as wellAt least this way you can capitalize when these deals come about and have flexibility to build multiple ways while still having talent around that star when you get himBoston also had assets and flexibility to get kg and Allen back in the dayWe could gut roster and get lucky to beat out the other 5-7 tanking teams for worst record and then get lucky to get top pick and then hope wiggins is the truth and then have no talent around him and be Cleveland with LebronOr we could have good players and flexibility and hope we can pull a Houston or Boston or Miami

At least you can build with good talent through the draft while this way you're keeping a team year after year with no core basically. Which is what Ferry is on track to doing.

[Wretch]

Harden was okc 3rd best player and look how that worked out

It's not the only thing that can happen...love is MN's best player but they may want a trade because they saved the best max contract for Rubio and he may not wanna re-sign so they'll trade him...and we would have the flexibility to get him if we want since we have good value bigs to return as well as other assets and no bad contracts

There is no certain path to contention...u need luck with draft and with trades/fa...at least we are prepared to strike now unlike the past when we weren't getting lotto OR trades/FAs because we were capped out with overpaid players

You also would need TWO LOTTERY PICKS to get him. But I guess that's just, y'know stretching it. Considering Toronto's pick was only TOP 3 protected at the time of the deal and Houston dealt the #12 LOTTERY pick that they just drafted a few months earlier....

I'm SO confused.............this is how we're going to do it?

We're going to offer up one lottery pick that could be anywhere from 4-14

We're also going to offer up OUR OWN ROOKIE, #12 LOTTERY PICK

And we're going to get someone's 3rd best player, sixth man

Pay him a max salary and he's SURE to become a top 5 scorer in the NBA

And then Blake Griffin is going to turn down the Clippers, 30 million, and the city of Los Angeles to play for YOUR Atlanta Hawks.

Sign me the hell up for THAT right there.

#IBELIEVEICANFLY

Edited July 9, 2013 by Wretch

[Wretch]

And at the time of the deal, THIS TEAM RIGHT HERE, that made no significant changes, would be offering up their pick PRIOR TO the 2013 season, from Houston, to OKC.

Let's hope we get ***LUCKY*** and can dupe somebody into giving us THAT pick!

Confirmation bias at it's best....

[Wretch]

And here is a breakdown of the pick you guys just keep farting over...

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/7/5/3139480/kyle-lowry-trade-rockets-raptors-draft-pick

[Wretch]

Come on people now...smile on your brother.

[ATL_BALLER]

You also would need TWO LOTTERY PICKS to get him. But I guess that's just, y'know stretching it. Considering Toronto's pick was only TOP 3 protected at the time of the deal and Houston dealt the #12 LOTTERY pick that they just drafted a few months earlier.... I'm SO confused.............this is how we're going to do it? We're going to offer up one lottery pick that could be anywhere from 4-14We're also going to offer up OUR OWN ROOKIE, #12 LOTTERY PICKAnd we're going to get someone's 3rd best player, sixth manPay him a max salary and he's SURE to become a top 5 scorer in the NBAAnd then Blake Griffin is going to turn down the Clippers, 30 million, and the city of Los Angeles to play for YOUR Atlanta Hawks. Sign me the hell up for THAT right there. #IBELIEVEICANFLY

I'm confused by the sarcasm, Wretch - aren't you describing a scenario that actually happened? Whose to say something similar can't again?

[AHF]

Wretch's point is that we need a way to acquire those two lottery picks. Since we plan to make the playoffs, that leaves is needing to get two by trade. The Toronto pick was obviously the most valuable asset in the deal and betting on us dealing someone other than Horford for a pick is a low % play(Millsap didn't attract anything for Utah, etc.) but that type of deal seems to be our best bet. GM stupidity won't stop but I bet future lottery picks get even more valuable over the course of this CBA. Proof will be in the pudding.

[Wretch]

I'm confused by the sarcasm, Wretch - aren't you describing a scenario that actually happened? Whose to say something similar can't again?

It can. But if you want to be fair about it, can we just ignore HOW Houston came to be in the possession of one - James Harden?

The whole point is how to build a contender. Am I wrong? If you're looking at how Houston became a contender, do you not start at the beginning? We all agree that the beginning of this is the fact that they signed James Harden. If you want a player of that caliber, then you have to follow the same scenario. Right?

I'm not using selective reasoning here - that is, I'm not leaving anything out to make my point. I'm also not generalizing, I'm not using a hyperbole, I'm not revising history. I'm just giving you the facts. You do with them what you want.

Fact is, Houston traded two lottery picks for James Harden (along with a decent shooting guard, Kevin Martin). One of those picks was their own. The other belonged to Toronto, a terrible lottery team, and that pick was only Top 3 protected for 2013. What is so hard to understand? You need to offer up an equivalent exchange if you expect James Harden.

You are also betting on a young sixth man, third option behind two elite scorers, to become a top 5 scorer in the league (Top 3 actually) to attract the attention of arguably THE top free agent prospect in a given season. Not only that, but this is a sign and trade...meaning that Harden has to agree to the destination in order to make the trade work. The destination in our case would be...THIS franchise.

In the first place, How do we get those lottery picks? One of those, we would have to EARN by missing the playoffs - which is a direct contradiction to you guys' argument. The other? What do we have, on this roster right now, that would fetch a lottery pick as high as #4? By way of example...Boston traded the #5 for a hall of famer - Ray Allen.

in the second place, how are those odds that much better than actually...going into the lottery ourselves and getting a lottery pick? The odd of us landing ANY lottery pick if we are not a playoff team?

100%

YOU GUYS HAVE NO PLACE AND NO BUSINESS USING HOUSTON OR INDIANA AS THE EXAMPLE.

But keep digging. You might find something I missed (the Phoenix Suns way back in the day is a good start). Point is, you don't want to lose...but you have to do a lot of fact stretching, semantics dancing, and selective reasoning...to find a handful of teams that might have won without somehow DIRECTLY using the NBA Draft Lottery - which is, by no coincidence, where the top talent has ALWAYS been found. Moreover, these days, since it's so important, there's actually rules to help you keep it.

[Buzzard]

Wretch's point is that we need a way to acquire those two lottery picks. Since we plan to make the playoffs, that leaves is needing to get two by trade. The Toronto pick was obviously the most valuable asset in the deal and betting on us dealing someone other than Horford for a pick is a low % play(Millsap didn't attract anything for Utah, etc.) but that type of deal seems to be our best bet. GM stupidity won't stop but I bet future lottery picks get even more valuable over the course of this CBA.Proof will be in the pudding.

Using Paul on a expring contract at the deadline is a horrible example of good value. Millsap on a decent two year deal is much more enticing. Rebounding at the PF position is deep and easy to come by, Reggie Evans or Kris Humphries anyone? But the combination of post scoring and rebounding is not.

I like Millsap a lot and don't want to trade him; but he is a very valuable asset now.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Buzzard