I'm back to my first assumption on Payne...

[Guest]

Since I was the one that initially brought up Sap off the bench - let me emphasize what I stated: "If DF and Bud can CONVINCE Millsap to come off the bench!"

[JTB]

Since I was the one that initially brought up Sap off the bench - let me emphasize what I stated: "If DF and Bud can CONVINCE Millsap to come off the bench!"

Ok and I'm saying if sap has that trust in ferry and bud I don't see why he wouldn't do it so that the hawks can bring in another good player.

When is it going to start being about the team and trying to win championships?!!!

They brag on how all these players have high BBIQ which I think most do, so hopefully they realize they aren't winning a championship with the team they currently have.

All this individual pride has to stop! Their is no individual nothing when it comes to winning a championship. Lebron had a great individual finals against the spurs but the spurs team was far more superior than lebrons individual stats.

Edited August 18, 2014 by JTB

[yungsta]

I can say confidently that Millsap isnt taking a paycut to stay here and to come off the bench to bring in a guy like Greg Monroe. The only realistic scenario I see Millsap doing that is if we are bringing in an established top 5ish player. (please spare me on the Greg Monroe will be a top 5 player under Bud argument).

[JTB]

I can say confidently that Millsap isnt taking a paycut to stay here and to come off the bench to bring in a guy like Greg Monroe. The only realistic scenario I see Millsap doing that is if we are bringing in an established top 5ish player. (please spare me on the Greg Monroe will be a top 5 player under Bud argument).

You don't need a top 5 player to win a title...so I'm sure sap is smarter than that.

What would sell sap is if he really believes in ferry/bud plans to become instant contenders. If he agrees to such a thing it would more than likely HAVE to be a 1-2 year process and sap would have to see contenders in our roster.

[AHF]

Why would anyone think you need some superstud to win a championship?

 

Duncan - First ballot HOF, Multiple MVP

Lebron - First ballot HOF, Multiple MVP

Dirk - First ballot HOF, MVP

Kobe - First ballot HOF, MVP

KG - First ballot HOF, MVP

Shaq - First ballot HOF, MVP

MJ - First ballot HOF, Multiple MVP

Hakeem - First ballot HOF, Multiple MVP

 

I think that covers just about every championship back to 1991.

 

Probably a total coincidence that nearly all the champions for the last 20+ years are built around these guys.  I am sure Millsap can see that you don't really need these First ballot HOF / MVP guys as the foundation of a champion.

[yungsta]

You don't need a top 5 player to win a title...so I'm sure sap is smarter than that.

What would sell sap is if he really believes in ferry/bud plans to become instant contenders. If he agrees to such a thing it would more than likely HAVE to be a 1-2 year process and sap would have to see contenders in our roster.

I really doubt Bud/Ferry will persuade Millsap to take a paycut and to come off the bench by selling him on the dream of possibility being a championship contender in a couple of years. That will be extremely dumb move for him. Ferry isnt an influential figure nor has that kind of resume to demand that kind of trust. He isnt a Pat Riley or Phil Jackson type of figure who has a fist full of rings, to prove they can win and know what they are doing. Bud has been an assistant coach with multiple championship teams but has never been the one to lead them so he doesnt have that kind of power.

 

Another point is that all the players you see taking paycuts to compete for a title are usually in a situation where there is certainty they will be competing for a championship as soon as the season begins. So you expect Millsap to take a less role and sacrifice millions on the possibility to be on a championship roster in a few years??

 

Besides the reason we only got a 2 year commitment from Millsap was because at the time, his market sucked so he took a two year contract in order to increase his value and try to fetch that last big payday when his contract ends.  Remember this guy is about to turn 30, and has been underpaid for most of his career. This is the very last time he will ever be able get a 10mil+ year contract.

[Mdizzle5]

Why would anyone think you need some superstud to win a championship?

 

Duncan - First ballot HOF, Multiple MVP

Lebron - First ballot HOF, Multiple MVP

Dirk - First ballot HOF, MVP

Kobe - First ballot HOF, MVP

KG - First ballot HOF, MVP

Shaq - First ballot HOF, MVP

MJ - First ballot HOF, Multiple MVP

Hakeem - First ballot HOF, Multiple MVP

 

I think that covers just about every championship back to 1991.

 

Probably a total coincidence that nearly all the champions for the last 20+ years are built around these guys.  I am sure Millsap can see that you don't really need these First ballot HOF / MVP guys as the foundation of a champion.

 

We have all this evidence here to prove that it an elite level player is an important cog in contention. What bothers me most, is both Ferry and Bud have worked with successful teams with future HOFs in the past but seem to refuse to realize how their previous teams got them (or more so Ferry anyways).

 

On topic, Payne could very well be a solid player ( on a roster of solid players) but if they're grooming him to play C, that leads me to think that Horford may be preparing his luggage and signing pen for that contract elsewhere. 

Edited August 19, 2014 by Mdizzle5

[MrMeltdown]

Sap for Rudy Gay works for me. I am pretty sure the Kings are not making the playoffs in the West unless they get Rondo so Gay will probably be available around trade deadline. Gay is currently playing on team USA which has helped change the games and perceptions of quite a few players.

Edited August 19, 2014 by MrMeltdown

[Guest]

You don't need a top 5 player to win a title...so I'm sure sap is smarter than that.

What would sell sap is if he really believes in ferry/bud plans to become instant contenders. If he agrees to such a thing it would more than likely HAVE to be a 1-2 year process and sap would have to see contenders in our roster.

Is it possible you meant to say STTE, "Just because you have a top 5 player it doesn't guarantee you'll win a title"?

 

I just can't see Ferry convincing any knowledgeable player that we're on the verge of winning any kind of championship anytime soon.  Makes me sad.

[macdaddy]

Is it possible you meant to say STTE, "Just because you have a top 5 player it doesn't guarantee you'll win a title"?

 

I just can't see Ferry convincing any knowledgeable player that we're on the verge of winning any kind of championship anytime soon.  Makes me sad.

 

Luckily I think there are still some players with pride.  Still some players who believe that they can lead a any good team to a title.  I realize there are a lot of guys who want everything setup perfectly so they can just come in and cruise to a championship but I don't think they are all that way

[Guest]

Luckily I think there are still some players with pride.  Still some players who believe that they can lead a any good team to a title.  I realize there are a lot of guys who want everything setup perfectly so they can just come in and cruise to a championship but I don't think they are all that way

 

Man, believe me when I say I absolutely reject this trend of 'teaming up' as much as anyone.  I think it's a perverted interpretation of the NBA's history.  These guys and their fans look at teams like the Showtime Lakers and the Celtics of that era and think, "See, see they had multiple stars too".  Most of those guys became stars because they won, not the other way around.  JMHO

 

Sadly, there are probably more copycats than guys wiling to stand on their own two feet.

[Guest]

Man, believe me when I say I absolutely reject this trend of 'teaming up' as much as anyone. I think it's a perverted interpretation of the NBA's history. These guys and their fans look at teams like the Showtime Lakers and the Celtics of that era and think, "See, see they had multiple stars too". Most of those guys became stars because they won, not the other way around. JMHO

Sadly, there are probably more copycats than guys wiling to stand on their own two feet.

I love this post. I gave it a "like" but I have to say I love it. NBA players want the easy way out. Dang it, stop whining, work hard and build something for yourself. Stop wanting everything handed to you..buncha spoiled brats. This is why I love our current team, it reminds me of yesteryear. Throwback guys like Sap,Horford and Korver, you gotta lovem :-)

[Guest]

I love this post. I gave it a "like" but I have to say I love it. NBA players want the easy way out. Dang it, stop whining, work hard and build something for yourself. Stop wanting everything handed to you..buncha spoiled brats. This is why I love our current team, it reminds me of yesteryear. Throwback guys like Sap,Horford and Korver, you gotta lovem :-)

Yeah, that's the thing I like about our team as well.  Unfortunately, as was the case with Jordan (to a degree), guys want to follow what the stars are doing.  The #1 recruit for '15 is trying to recruit guys to join him at LSU (in Lebron-like fashion) so they'll be good by the time he gets there.  SMDH.

 

As an aside, I should state for the record, my negative nellie-ness stems primarily from my dislike/distrust of Ferry.  I actually do like our team and want to see them win it all.

[AHF]

I want to see us win it all too but this team reminds me more of the 1990's Cleveland Cavaliers than the 1990's Bulls.  Great attitude, lots of likable players, but just didn't have the talent to go over the top.  Actually, we need to upgrade our talent to get to that Cavs level with Nance, Price, Ehlo, Daugherty, Brandon, Hot Rod, Ferry, etc.

[Guest]

I want to see us win it all too but this team reminds me more of the 1990's Cleveland Cavaliers than the 1990's Bulls. Great attitude, lots of likable players, but just didn't have the talent to go over the top. Actually, we need to upgrade our talent to get to that Cavs level with Nance, Price, Ehlo, Daugherty, Brandon, Hot Rod, Ferry, etc.

I don't think that team had Terrell Brandon yet, did they? I thought he came a couple years later. I could be wrong. But I totally agree. They had more talent than us.

[AHF]

I don't think that team had Terrell Brandon yet, did they? I thought he came a couple years later. I could be wrong. But I totally agree. They had more talent than us.

 

Brandon was drafted by the Cavs in 1991 so he was there for almost the entirety of the 90's.

[Guest]

Brandon was drafted by the Cavs in 1991 so he was there for almost the entirety of the 90's.

Oh I guess I was thinking of the infamous 1989 Cavs that lost on a last second buzzer beater in game 5 to Mike.

That's right Terrell baby Brandon was 91. Great player.

[AHF]

Oh I guess I was thinking of the infamous 1989 Cavs that lost on a last second buzzer beater in game 5 to Mike.

That's right Terrell baby Brandon was 91. Great player.

 

The Cavs were kind of where we look like we are aiming for based on roster construction, IMO:

 

57 wins

54 wins

47 wins etc.