Two-part question: Of Pacers, Mavs and Twolves, which will we look back 5 years from now and say...

[sturt]

(a) ... that was the beginning of their rise to the NBA's upper tier?

(b) ... that was a complete one-off, and that team more than the two others predictably was destined to go back to the hamster wheel?

 

Just curious to hear opinions.

 

[Hawkmoor]

26 minutes ago, sturt said:

(a) ... that was the beginning of their rise to the NBA's upper tier?

(b) ... that was a complete one-off, and that team more than the two others predictably was destined to go back to the hamster wheel?

 

Just curious to hear opinions.

 

That Hawks team that went to the ECF a few years back with Trae and Nate McMillan.

[sturt]

8 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

That Hawks team that went to the ECF a few years back with Trae and Nate McMillan.

Different discussion. I'd rejoinder that with my essay on [a topic for the politics board].

And besides, I'm really just intrigued to hear what different people think on this. Not going to hijack a thread where I'm genuinely interested in reading others' takes... having none of my own, and just interested to see how any given person reaches the conclusion they do.

 

[terrell]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

(a) ... that was the beginning of their rise to the NBA's upper tier?

(b) ... that was a complete one-off, and that team more than the two others predictably was destined to go back to the hamster wheel?

 

Just curious to hear opinions.

 

Pacers run reminded me of our late season run in 2021.

I don't see them back in ECF in the next few years either..

ESpecially after they break the bank for Siakam(like we did JC).. 

Edited May 25 by terrell

[Dejay]

Indiana if Siakim leaves...

[sturt]

44 minutes ago, Dejay said:

Indiana if Siakim leaves...

He's a Pacer now? Didn't know. How bout that.

[sturt]

7 hours ago, terrell said:

I don't see them back in ECF in the next few years either..

ESpecially after they break the bank for Siakam(like we did JC)..

But let's say they do break that bank... why do you still not see them back in the next few years?

 

  

7 hours ago, Dejay said:

Indiana if Siakim leaves...

Same question... and if not?

[NBASupes]

I think this is the last year for Minnesota unless they somehow rob Atlanta for Murray.

Indy is built well but they need that 3rd player to rise from within. Siakam and Hali is not enough 

I said Dallas will likely win a title in 3 years after the Kyrie trade and I believe that will be this year or next. Most likely next year. They are close right now.

Minnesota is my favorite to win it all this year. Even down 2, I just see them as the better team but Dallas knows how to play 48 mins. Minnesota only plays 36 minutes.  You make sense of it how you want. 

Atlanta could contend as soon as next year if they make the right moves but the bad moves and they will fall steeply. 

[benhillboy]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I think this is the last year for Minnesota unless they somehow rob Atlanta for Murray.

Indy is built well but they need that 3rd player to rise from within. Siakam and Hali is not enough 

I said Dallas will likely win a title in 3 years after the Kyrie trade and I believe that will be this year or next. Most likely next year. They are close right now.

Minnesota is my favorite to win it all this year. Even down 2, I just see them as the better team but Dallas knows how to play 48 mins. Minnesota only plays 36 minutes.  You make sense of it how you want. 

Atlanta could contend as soon as next year if they make the right moves but the bad moves and they will fall steeply. 

I was premature crowning Ant as a Top 5 player, the wack ass Suns clouded my vision lol.  He needs to throw away that crap KD tape and learn a few more PG skills, cut much better/ often, and learn how to conserve energy on both ends in spots without sacrificing impact which takes years to learn for most high motor, two way, 35 minute players.  Study some Jimmy tape and he’ll be fine.

But to answer @sturt’s question Indy easily.  Their best player gives them little to nothing defensively and they have more than a few players absolutely maxing out their potential in Nembhard, McConnell, and Nesmith.  I commend Turner for helping them make it this far but they’ve known for years he ain’t it.

Mavs ain’t going nowhere for the next decade unless Luka forces a trade.  He just needed 5 years to adjust to the rigorous conditioning demands of the Association, just as Steph needed 5 for the physicality.  Now we see Luka treating the NBA like the Euro league just as Steph turned it back into the A-10.

Edited May 26 by benhillboy

[NBASupes]

16 hours ago, benhillboy said:

I was premature crowning Ant as a Top 5 player, the wack ass Suns clouded my vision lol.  He needs to throw away that crap KD tape and learn a few more PG skills, cut much better/ often, and learn how to conserve energy on both ends in spots without sacrificing impact which takes years to learn for most high motor, two way, 35 minute players.  Study some Jimmy tape and he’ll be fine.

But to answer @sturt’s question Indy easily.  Their best player gives them little to nothing defensively and they have more than a few players absolutely maxing out their potential in Nembhard, McConnell, and Nesmith.  I commend Turner for helping them make it this far but they’ve known for years he ain’t it.

Mavs ain’t going nowhere for the next decade unless Luka forces a trade.  He just needed 5 years to adjust to the rigorous conditioning demands of the Association, just as Steph needed 5 for the physicality.  Now we see Luka treating the NBA like the Euro league just as Steph turned it back into the A-10.

I think dealing with heliocentric players like Luka, Trae, and Harden is a lot harder than the data reads. Those guys open so many angles that generally aren't there or expected to be there if you do extremely well on the scouting report. 

[Final_quest]

To skip ahead.  We mismanaged John Collins, and Hunter, and Capela, and the Murray trade.  We made a lot of bad investments, and so far we haven’t been able to trade out of past decisions.  

Because other teams don’t value our “assets” it makes our challenge to replace 3 or 4 starters a different starting point than these other teams.  We had already spent most of our draft capital, too.  Our best trading chip has been Murray, and so far the packages we’ve been offered for him are underwhelming.  Imagine what teams offer for Hunter’s contract?

This came up in another thread.  People asserting we were in the same position as some of the teams in this poll.  Record wise we were…

We got a chance to do something this offseason to put us on a better trajectory.  The fan perspective that we could have been the Mavs if we made the right moves last summer is unrealistic.  Those would have been some GM of the decade type of moves.   

[JayBirdHawk]

40 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Our best trading chip has been Murray, and so far the packages we’ve been offered for him are underwhelming.  Imagine what teams offer for Hunter’s contract?

This came up in another thread.  People asserting we were in the same position as some of the teams in this poll.  Record wise we were…

It's all about perception and what has been created by Tony Ressler - the Hawks are a team looking to reduce payroll in trades as the first order of business. As long as teams hear that, we'll keep getting crap offers. Time to change the narrative.

[macdaddy]

Pacers.  They are a flash in the pan with no real star.   They will soon be the Raptors.

Honorable mention to the Mavs.   Their success depends on the reliability of Luka and Kyrie staying focused and injury free.  Looks great right now though. 

Twolves are a good team.  They are just young for the most part.  

[KB21]

16 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Pacers.  They are a flash in the pan with no real star.   They will soon be the Raptors.

Honorable mention to the Mavs.   Their success depends on the reliability of Luka and Kyrie staying focused and injury free.  Looks great right now though. 

Twolves are a good team.  They are just young for the most part.  

The Wolves have a massive flaw though.  They can't play anything but drop coverage, and that is getting exploited right now.  Also, due to the fact that they have to put POA defenders around their drop coverage center, they are lacking in secondary scoring options with KAT is off his game.  Neither McDaniels nor NAW are secondary scorers.  

Drop coverage always gets exploited in the playoffs.  

[AHF]

13 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Pacers.  They are a flash in the pan with no real star.   They will soon be the Raptors.

I am eager to see what happens with Siakam this offseason.  Will he get $245M this offseason?  I think the only path forward that is clear for the Pacers is if he agrees to a much lower offer.  If he gets paid, that is going to challenge payroll for a small market team.  If he signs somewhere else, that makes the trade a bit of a disaster.  (I don't think he'll do that unless they really tighten the screws to him.)

[Gray Mule]

#1 - Pacers will look back and say, "Dang, we wuz purty good!"

[macdaddy]

15 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The Wolves have a massive flaw though.  They can't play anything but drop coverage, and that is getting exploited right now.  Also, due to the fact that they have to put POA defenders around their drop coverage center, they are lacking in secondary scoring options with KAT is off his game.  Neither McDaniels nor NAW are secondary scorers.  

Drop coverage always gets exploited in the playoffs.  

Apparently not though.  They made it to the WCF and are only getting beat now because they can't stop two probable hof offensive players.  But maybe the bigger problem is really they can't score in crunch time.  22,22,20 in the fourth quarters.  

[AHF]

12 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Apparently not though.  They made it to the WCF and are only getting beat now because they can't stop two probable hof offensive players.  But maybe the bigger problem is really they can't score in crunch time.  22,22,20 in the fourth quarters.  

Minnesota beats Denver

Dallas beats Minnesota

Denver beats Dallas

It really looks like how the bracket shook out is more about what determined the team emerging from the West.  All 3 of these teams are really good but can be beat by the right teams.  Worked out very well for Dallas that they didn't have to face Denver.

[Packfill]

7 hours ago, AHF said:

Minnesota beats Denver

Dallas beats Minnesota

Denver beats Dallas

It really looks like how the bracket shook out is more about what determined the team emerging from the West.  All 3 of these teams are really good but can be beat by the right teams.  Worked out very well for Dallas that they didn't have to face Denver.

I thought Minny would have enough defense to get them past Dallas but it is not looking good for them.  I think both those teams, not to mention OKC and Denver, can be right back in the mix for the west crown next year.  Ant gives Minny additional upside I think given his trajectory - he will need to adopt an MJ/Kobe mindset and just will his way to domination - he has the athletic chops and now skill to do it. 

Indy seems like a long shot to make it as far as they did this season, but the east also is pretty wide open so there is a path available to a bunch of teams for a run at the finals.  Could be the Hawks but I think next season is a retooling year where they incorporate whoever is the #1 pick plus what they get in a DJM trade, with the goal of taking a leap the following season.  

[KB21]

OKC has the most long term staying power with how they have built that team.