I am so ready for this season to be over

[Watchman]

44 minutes ago, Royjr9 said:

No that was Wes and bud and to some degrees ferry although he was fired. It is my belief that that 60 win team was meant to be stripped and shipped for other pieces otherwise why did ferry pretty much not secure any of their bird rights. They just happened to really catch a down eastern conference that year. We still got nowhere with that team. Adding Paul would keep postponing the inevitable.

Paul was no longer on the contract he signed with Ferry.  Bud and Wes didn't refuse to sign him.  Schlenk is completely responsible, good or bad, for letting him leave with no compensation returning to us.

[AHF]

51 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Paul was no longer on the contract he signed with Ferry.  Bud and Wes didn't refuse to sign him.  Schlenk is completely responsible, good or bad, for letting him leave with no compensation returning to us.

It was Schlenk's decision to keep Sap or not but the no compensation part was all Bud's and/or ownership's fault.  The last clear window to move him for value was the trade deadline.

You could not sign Sap for $30M/year and then count on flipping him for value.  He was always going to be a risk to be a toxic asset if  his play continued to decline into this year (which it did and then he suffered a significant injury further deteriorating his value).

On whether to keep him or not, that was all Schlenk.  The team that Schlenk inherited was mediocre (scored fewer points than their opponents and was lucky to win 43 games), aging, and increasingly expensive.  Ownership decided to change the GM and hired someone for the purpose of cleaning house.  You heard it from ownership this offseason that they didn't want to bring back another team like last year because they saw the team as complete non-contenders and I can't blame them.

We didn't have the cap room to resign Sap and then go chase FAs.

[davis171]

51 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Paul was no longer on the contract he signed with Ferry.  Bud and Wes didn't refuse to sign him.  Schlenk is completely responsible, good or bad, for letting him leave with no compensation returning to us.

Sap should have been traded 2 years ago. Schlenk had the option to sign him for 90 million or let him walk. He made the right choice.

[AtlKauzie]

I can't comprehend why some would be mad at travis for not bringing back millsap(and for some, THJ) and dwight. A starting front court in their mid 30s making over 50 mill a year is a recipe for disaster. 

Dennis 15.5 mill

Baze 16.7 mill

Thj 17.7 mill

Millsap 30.7 mill

Howard 23.5 mill

Thats a combind total of 104.1 million, that a LOT of money to commit to just to be a first round exit. I can't blame bud for giving baze and dwight those contacts because that's just how the market was and just about every player was offered contracts way above their value. If we had kept dwight and millsap we'd be forced to rebuild any way 3-4 years down the line, much like how to grizzlies are now.

Edited February 27, 2018 by AtlKauzie

[davis171]

7 minutes ago, AtlKauzie said:

I can't comprehend why some would be mad at travis for not bringing back millsap(and for some, THJ) and dwight. A starting front court in their mid 30s making over 50 mill a year is a recipe for disaster. 

Dennis 15.5 mill

Baze 16.7 mill

Thj 17.7 mill

Millsap 30.7 mill

Howard 23.5 mill

Thats a combind total of 104.1 million, that a LOT of money to commit to just to be a first round exit. I can't blame bud for giving baze and dwight those contacts because that's just how the market was and just about every player was offered contracts way above their value. If we had kept dwight and millsap we'd be forced to rebuild any way 3-4 years down the line, much like how to grizzlies are now.

I agree about baze but I kinda think we may have bid against ourselves on Dwight.

[AtlKauzie]

Also this is what travis had to say about how bad contracts can effect us in a negative way as well as the marco and ersan buyouts on the radio. Anyone with a basic understanding of cap management would know that takeing back large unnecessary contracts for 1 second round pick is not worth it. Atleast let the draft pass by before judgement.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KLChouinard/status/968488092226134017

[AHF]

15 minutes ago, AtlKauzie said:

Also this is what travis had to say about how bad contracts can effect us in a negative way as well as the marco and ersan buyouts on the radio. Anyone with a basic understanding of cap management would know that takeing back large unnecessary contracts for 1 second round pick is not worth it. Atleast let the draft pass by before judgement.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KLChouinard/status/968488092226134017

We could get more just by renting our cap space out this summer ala Jamal Crawford type of deals.

[AtlKauzie]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

We could get more just by renting our cap space out this summer ala Jamal Crawford type of deals.

Didn't jamal say he wouldn't play if he wasn't bought out? Or am i mistaken? i kinda forgot we had him last summer.

Edited February 27, 2018 by AtlKauzie

[Watchman]

26 minutes ago, AtlKauzie said:

Also this is what travis had to say about how bad contracts can effect us in a negative way as well as the marco and ersan buyouts on the radio. Anyone with a basic understanding of cap management would know that takeing back large unnecessary contracts for 1 second round pick is not worth it. Atleast let the draft pass by before judgement.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KLChouinard/status/968488092226134017

Why sign Ilyasova in the first place then?  All doing that did was create negative perceptions on all sides.

[AHF]

43 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Why sign Ilyasova in the first place then?  All doing that did was create negative perceptions on all sides.

That is the best question about his signing.  Why did he sign?  Was this the best offer on the table?  Don't know. 

Why did he want to stay even after it was clear we were tanking and didn't want to keep him?  Don't know.  (At least there is an obvious answer to that - he didn't want to stay per se but wanted to be able to pick his next location).

[AtlKauzie]

52 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Why sign Ilyasova in the first place then?  All doing that did was create negative perceptions on all sides.

He probably had plans to trade him all along like marco but as was stated taking back a long term bad contract in exchange for a 2nd rounder isn't worth the trouble down the road.

[Watchman]

13 hours ago, AtlKauzie said:

He probably had plans to trade him all along like marco but as was stated taking back a long term bad contract in exchange for a 2nd rounder isn't worth the trouble down the road.

With all due respect, if that was his plan, he was extremely short sighted.  

[davis171]

1 hour ago, Watchman said:

With all due respect, if that was his plan, he was extremely short sighted.  

Illyasova is over 30 and the hawks weren't going to be a playoff team regardless of how good a GM you bring in I think you are nit picking.

[KB21]

1 hour ago, Watchman said:

With all due respect, if that was his plan, he was extremely short sighted.  

Travis Schlenk is an idiot anyway.

[davis171]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Travis Schlenk is an idiot anyway.

[Deleted]  Everyone outside of ATL agrees the hawks were just squeezing every win they could. The hawks went into tanking kicking and screaming until Schlink got here and now we may have a future in place potentially. Regardless resigning Paul alone didn't make us a playoff team so what do you expect him to do? Go yell at Restler because he is tired of mediocrity and didn't want to pay Sap? Please tell me all the idiot moves he has made?

[AHF]

I know people get emotional when debating these issues but absolutely do not start throwing insults at other posters.  Nobody is going to debate how smart a poster is, whether anyone is a real fan or anything like that.  Stick to the issues.  If insults are thrown at players or management, please report those insults to a mod if you think the insult is out of hand but otherwise stick to the merits of the argument and don't resort to firing the insult back at the poster personally.

[KB21]

3 hours ago, davis171 said:

[Deleted]  Everyone outside of ATL agrees the hawks were just squeezing every win they could. The hawks went into tanking kicking and screaming until Schlink got here and now we may have a future in place potentially. Regardless resigning Paul alone didn't make us a playoff team so what do you expect him to do? Go yell at Restler because he is tired of mediocrity and didn't want to pay Sap? Please tell me all the idiot moves he has made?

Considering that ResSler's only goal is to divert profits from the Hawks team to the Gulch project, I'm sure he was all in for the tanking with the increased revenue the Hawks have had over the past year.  

I've already detailed a few of the moves, the most idiotic of which was tanking.

[deester11]

3 hours ago, davis171 said:

[Deleted]  Everyone outside of ATL agrees the hawks were just squeezing every win they could. The hawks went into tanking kicking and screaming until Schlink got here and now we may have a future in place potentially. Regardless resigning Paul alone didn't make us a playoff team so what do you expect him to do? Go yell at Restler because he is tired of mediocrity and didn't want to pay Sap? Please tell me all the idiot moves he has made?

KB hasn't articulated anything close to reasonable with his replies. Anybody who knows what this team was, can't possibly believe keeping overpaid pieces with nothing resembling assets was a smart move.  Contrary to the anti, anti-tankers, this team needed a refresh.  It's here, so complain all you like...or expand your favorite team possibilities..

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, deester11 said:

KB hasn't articulated anything close to reasonable with his replies. Anybody who knows what this team was, can't possibly believe keeping overpaid pieces with nothing resembling assets was a smart move.  Contrary to the anti, anti-tankers, this team needed a refresh.  It's here, so complain all you like...or expand your favorite team possibilities..

No.  I'm going to complain.  I'm going to point out every mistake that is made.  When this tank costs the team Mike Budenholzer, I'm going to tell you "I told you so."  When this team is still losing 3 years from now, I'm going to tell you I told you so.  When the Hawks high draft pick isn't nearly as good as what you think he will be, I'm going to tell you "I told you so."  

[davis171]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

No.  I'm going to complain.  I'm going to point out every mistake that is made.  When this tank costs the team Mike Budenholzer, I'm going to tell you "I told you so."  When this team is still losing 3 years from now, I'm going to tell you I told you so.  When the Hawks high draft pick isn't nearly as good as what you think he will be, I'm going to tell you "I told you so."  

No one is denying we will be loosing in 3 years this is a tough rebuild because Bud had no assets for Schlink to work with when he got here Bud was terrible as president.