The Tank Thread

[davis171]

52 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Here's your strategy:  Let's just give up on even trying to win games because of LeBron.  Let's spend the next 5 years at the bottom of the league standings and hope that out of those 5 picks, we can get two good players.  That way, we can pull the wool over the eyes of our fanbase and convince them that the future is bright with these two players.  Along the way, we can't sign any veterans because we want to set up a culture where there is no accountability for the young players on the team.  We want to just give them jobs they haven't earned.  We want to play young and free and lose a lot of games in the process.  We want to establish a losing culture that will be difficult to overcome.

So you want us to continue doing exactly what we have done since the hawks have been here and be the team everyone wants to play in the playoffs.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, davis171 said:

So you want us to continue doing exactly what we have done since the hawks have been here and be the team everyone wants to play in the playoffs.

Nah.  I want to be the complete dumpster fire that everyone in the league wants to play because it's an easy win.

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

We'll have plenty of flexibility to sign veteran players at a discount I might add

Good luck convincing a legit veteran to come to a team who will likely be a sub 20 win team in 2018-2019.  

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Good luck convincing a legit veteran to come to a team who will likely be a sub 20 win team in 2018-2019.  

Ummmm, didn't we sign Dedmon and Ilyasova this year to an even worse team?

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Ummmm, didn't we sign Dedmon and Ilyasova this year to an even worse team?

I did say legit veteran that can help a team win, not place holders who have minimal impact on the game.

[davis171]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Nah.  I want to be the complete dumpster fire that everyone in the league wants to play because it's an easy win.

so what is the quickest way to win a championship in your opinion? Try and be a 4-6 seed ever year while paying luxury tax with no star to bring in fans and pray everyone gets hurt?

[KB21]

Just now, davis171 said:

so what is the quickest way to win a championship in your opinion? Try and be a 4-6 seed ever year while paying luxury tax with no star to bring in fans and pray everyone gets hurt?

Yes.  The quickest way to win a championship is to actually be good.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

I did say legit veteran that can help a team win, not place holders who have minimal impact on the game.

Win what??? The East???

[CBAreject]

1 minute ago, davis171 said:

so what is the quickest way to win a championship in your opinion? Try and be a 4-6 seed ever year while paying luxury tax with no star to bring in fans and pray everyone gets hurt?

I figured it out over the course of this thread.  KB thinks we could sign a Demarre Carrroll and Paul Millsap any offseason and end up with 2 veteran all-star forwards who were perfect scheme fits.  

This is where we disagree.  Most of us take for granted that it was impossible for us to substantially improve on our lousy, expensive first round playoff team 

[KB21]

1 minute ago, CBAreject said:

I figured it out over the course of this thread.  KB thinks we could sign a Demarre Carrroll and Paul Millsap any offseason and end up with 2 veteran all-star forwards who were perfect scheme fits.  

This is where we disagree.  Most of us take for granted that it was impossible for us to substantially improve on our lousy, expensive first round playoff team 

Correction. 

What people are taking for granted is the importance of being good as opposed to be a dumpster fire.  You are taking it for granted that you can simply dip down into the lottery for a year, nab a superstar player, and then be on your way up in a short amount of time.  It doesn't work that way.  It may have worked that way in the '80s and '90s when players coming out of college were a lot better and a lot more ready for the NBA than they are now, but it doesn't work that way any longer.  This is why teams that decide to dip into the lottery stay there for an extended period of time. 

There is not a single player in the 2018 draft that will make the Hawks better in 2018-2019 than they are now.  Not a single one.  

 

[davis171]

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I did say legit veteran that can help a team win, not place holders who have minimal impact on the game.

Didn't Deadmon start 30+ games for a spurs team that won 60+ games last year? but I guess that isn't valuable.

[davis171]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Correction. 

What people are taking for granted is the importance of being good as opposed to be a dumpster fire.  You are taking it for granted that you can simply dip down into the lottery for a year, nab a superstar player, and then be on your way up in a short amount of time.  It doesn't work that way.  It may have worked that way in the '80s and '90s when players coming out of college were a lot better and a lot more ready for the NBA than they are now, but it doesn't work that way any longer.  This is why teams that decide to dip into the lottery stay there for an extended period of time. 

There is not a single player in the 2018 draft that will make the Hawks better in 2018-2019 than they are now.  Not a single one.  

 

Okay owners say no we aren't breaking the cap to be an average team then what.

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, davis171 said:

Okay owners say no we aren't breaking the cap to be an average team then what.

Then you do what Danny Ferry did.  You sign undervalued players to good contracts and roll with it.  

[davis171]

Just now, KB21 said:

Then you do what Danny Ferry did.  You sign undervalued players to good contracts and roll with it.  

 

11 minutes ago, CBAreject said:

I figured it out over the course of this thread.  KB thinks we could sign a Demarre Carrroll and Paul Millsap any offseason and end up with 2 veteran all-star forwards who were perfect scheme fits.  

This is where we disagree.  Most of us take for granted that it was impossible for us to substantially improve on our lousy, expensive first round playoff team 

 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Then you do what Danny Ferry did.  You sign undervalued players to good contracts and roll with it.  

So we can't do both?  We can't get a high draft pick this year and sign undervalued vet too?

[KB21]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

So we can't do both?  We can't get a high draft pick this year and sign undervalued vet too?

No, because you are now unattractive to that undervalued vet.  When we signed Paul and DeMarre, we were a 40 plus win team.  No vet is going to willingly come to a sub 20 win team.

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

No, because you are now unattractive to that undervalued vet.  When we signed Paul and DeMarre, we were a 40 plus win team.  No vet is going to willingly come to a sub 20 win team.

Didn't joe Johnson come to a sub 20 win team?

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

No, because you are now unattractive to that undervalued vet.  When we signed Paul and DeMarre, we were a 40 plus win team.  No vet is going to willingly come to a sub 20 win team.

And by the way, do you think that next year's team will win fewer games than this year's team.  We currently have 18 wins with 22 games to go to be a sub 20 win team

[CBAreject]

15 minutes ago, KB21 said:

You are taking it for granted that you can simply dip down into the lottery for a year, nab a superstar player, and then be on your way up in a short amount of time.”  

 

Where did I say how long it would take us to get good again?  For the record, I expect to be in the lottery for at least four years.   I’m ok with that.  If we whiff on this year’s pick, it adds at least one more year.  Multiple whiffs and this thing gets really ugly.  I’m still ok with the gamble after decades of being a first-round fluffer for actual contenders.  

[davis171]

14 minutes ago, KB21 said:

No, because you are now unattractive to that undervalued vet.  When we signed Paul and DeMarre, we were a 40 plus win team.  No vet is going to willingly come to a sub 20 win team.

Wrong. no one wanted DeMarre he shot 28% from 3 the year before he joined ATL. The reason Millsap signed is because Utah had so many big men on contract and wanted to give minutes to Kanter and Derrick Favors.  Those types of players will sign with anyone who will give them a chance to be a full time starter. 

Edited February 26, 2018 by davis171

[CBAreject]

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Didn't joe Johnson come to a sub 20 team?

He was a sign-and-trade to a 13-win team, but basically yes.  Interestingly, the Joe Johnson acquisition was one that the anti-tank camp applauded.  It got us into the playoffs a lot faster, but it committed us to a decade of mediocrity.