The Tank Thread

[thecampster]

30 minutes ago, High5 said:

OK? But instead we used our picks and cap space to put together a young team that is 3 wins away from a Finals appearance. No route is without risks, but people who were adamant that tanking wouldn’t work have obviously been proven wrong. 

 

I'm treading lightly because this thread is raining on the good juju I've been trying to conjure.  Speaking only for me, I was adamant that tanking is a crap shoot and works out way less than it works for. Lets take a small history lesson.

In 2014/15 we won 60 games but were a very flawed 60 win team. We were heavy iso reliant and lacked athleticism where it mattered. We were much too finesse and it showed.

2015/16 and 16/17 we were paying the price for aging, bad spending, and really bad drafting. We lacked vision. The tank was on.

17/18 was the first tank season and if you're honest...lucked the hell out with John Collins. Only the best drafting teams get Collins at 19 there. Collins is not the result of tanking as he came off a 5th seeded finish the previous year.

18/19 we finish 12 of 15 in conference and somehow got very, very luck with the 3rd pick. This was Schlenk and company's first bit of magic in the draft making the trade for Young at 5 and securing Reddish the next year. Now again, we lucked out because no one expected that Dallas pick to be at 10. Everyone thought that with Luka and the money Dallas spent they'd be much better. Dirk missing 31 games and a slew of injuries doomed their season. In no world should they have won only 33 games. This was our first bit of luck. Our second bit is Kevin Huerter's bad hand (most forget about this) had him slip out of the lottery down to the 19th pick. Before he hurt his hand, he looked like a lock to go somewhere around 12.

19/20 we finish 14 of 15, 2 years of sucking and I'm spitting nails. We draft Hunter and luck into Reddish. Neither really should have been there for us.

20/21 we luck into O squared who turned out better than expected for a big rookie.

We got lucky 4 straight years in the draft. 5 of the 6 players we drafted should not have been there when we drafted or we got lucky where we drafted and had a good enough GM to take advantage.

Irregardless, the first 34 games of our season showed that those draft picks alone weren't enough to get it done. It was only when the vets got healthy that we started winning. The stars aligned, but we didn't plan it like this. 3-5 teams a year purposely tank and most get sent packing and lose their highly touted rookies after their 1st contract runs out and they are tired of losing.

 

[Jdawgflow]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

No denying Schlenk has done a really great job building this team around Trae, and I think the most underrated part of his draft picks and FA signings are personality.  Everyone on this team has a good attitude and seems to be motivated to improve and work together.  Nate is a huge part of that as well.

This is well said.  We have no malcontents (JR Rider or Big Dog anyone?) and the guys genuinely seem to get along.  Multiple players have alluded to this in interviews during the playoffs as well.  And we don’t have any really weird dudes either (Kyrie, etc).

[lethalweapon3]

Some NBA front offices bank on being Better Lucky Than Good.

Hawks Inc. proved it helps to be Better Good Than Lucky!

~lw3

[Wretch]

On 6/24/2021 at 8:29 AM, AHF said:

This is what the rebuild was all about.  Tanking doesn’t guarantee success or failure.  Like any strategy, it takes luck and execution.  But this is what it was all about.

By tanking we picked up high draft picks with the goal of drafting a difference-making true star and strong, young, cheap talent.  Look what that strategy wrought.

Key Draft Picks

Pick #1 - John Collins - 23 and 15 last night with a spectacular highlight dunk off the backboard, a key three down the stretch and grinding where the team needed it to steal the rebounding margin from the regular season top rebounding team.  
 

Pick #2 - Trae Young - Superstar.  What more is there to say?  This is the franchise player you dream about getting.  Would never have gotten him by a bunch of first round exits.

Pick #3 - Kevin Huerter - Why are the Hawks here in the ECF?  Huert picked up this team, dined on Curry and carried this group past the Sixers in game 7.  Been up and down with his scoring but pretty steady in terms of his defense, passing and floor spacing (opponents respect him regardless of whether he is hot or not).

Picks #4&5 - Hunter and Cam have been on the sidelines.  We miss them badly.  Get healthy guys.

Pick #6 - Okongwu - Gave us key minutes to help us beat the Sixers.  Has been high energy and defensively sound over his rookie year.  With his length and quickness he shows a ton of promise for the future but even as truncated as his early season and college career were, he is still making a difference for this team.

Impact of Rookie Contracts and Another First Round Pick

Because the team built around cheap, young players they were able to add key, quality depth.

Capela - 12 and 19 last night to combine with JC to rock the Bucks on the boards.  Has been transformative for our defense and a key target for Trae on offense.

Bogi - Hurt right now but still scrapping for deflections and making an impact where he can even when he is limping. We’ve seen he can be a difference maker on offense.  We are surviving on the wing in these playoffs by sheer depth and Bogi is leading the team in +/- in the playoffs perhaps speaking to how much trouble we would be in if we had to go to our end of the roster alternatives.

Gallo - Our cap space let us go out and sign a key floor spacer and wily vet to play behind JC and Cap.  A team like we had with Millsap, THJr, Dennis, etc. can’t afford a player like him.  It is purely a product of the type of rebuild we pursued that gave us the luxury of adding an impact player like this.

This is what it was all about.  

Thank you for the patience Mr. Ressler and for the hand on the wheel Mr. Schlenk.  We have not only an exciting, talented group of basketball players but also what seems to be a team of good men who watch out for and root for each other.  Who care about the team more than their own egos.  

This is a special team.  This is what it was all about.

 

I would also add that recently the term "tanking" is being used interchangeably with "rebuilding" - and wrongfully so.  Rebuilding is the practice of gutting a team and starting over.  Tanking is a rebuilding "strategy" whereby a team intentionally loses games to obtain the highest odds of securing a selection at the top of the NBA lottery.  Using semantics, people have married the two terms - since getting rid of all of your talent means you intend to lose games.  I don't care for tanking per se, because there is star talent to be found ALL over the top 10-15 picks.  However, my preference has and will always be to rebuild when the team hits middling production with no clear path to upgrading and moving the needle.

[High5]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

 

I'm treading lightly because this thread is raining on the good juju I've been trying to conjure.  Speaking only for me, I was adamant that tanking is a crap shoot and works out way less than it works for. Lets take a small history lesson.

In 2014/15 we won 60 games but were a very flawed 60 win team. We were heavy iso reliant and lacked athleticism where it mattered. We were much too finesse and it showed.

2015/16 and 16/17 we were paying the price for aging, bad spending, and really bad drafting. We lacked vision. The tank was on.

17/18 was the first tank season and if you're honest...lucked the hell out with John Collins. Only the best drafting teams get Collins at 19 there. Collins is not the result of tanking as he came off a 5th seeded finish the previous year.

18/19 we finish 12 of 15 in conference and somehow got very, very luck with the 3rd pick. This was Schlenk and company's first bit of magic in the draft making the trade for Young at 5 and securing Reddish the next year. Now again, we lucked out because no one expected that Dallas pick to be at 10. Everyone thought that with Luka and the money Dallas spent they'd be much better. Dirk missing 31 games and a slew of injuries doomed their season. In no world should they have won only 33 games. This was our first bit of luck. Our second bit is Kevin Huerter's bad hand (most forget about this) had him slip out of the lottery down to the 19th pick. Before he hurt his hand, he looked like a lock to go somewhere around 12.

19/20 we finish 14 of 15, 2 years of sucking and I'm spitting nails. We draft Hunter and luck into Reddish. Neither really should have been there for us.

20/21 we luck into O squared who turned out better than expected for a big rookie.

We got lucky 4 straight years in the draft. 5 of the 6 players we drafted should not have been there when we drafted or we got lucky where we drafted and had a good enough GM to take advantage.

Irregardless, the first 34 games of our season showed that those draft picks alone weren't enough to get it done. It was only when the vets got healthy that we started winning. The stars aligned, but we didn't plan it like this. 3-5 teams a year purposely tank and most get sent packing and lose their highly touted rookies after their 1st contract runs out and they are tired of losing.

 

1. No, JC and Huerter were not the result of tanking, but they were the result of great scouting. Which makes rebuilding through the draft a much more appealing strategy.

2. We were tied for the 3rd worst record in 2018 and tied for the 3rd best odds of getting #3. Sure, it was lucky not to drop to 5 or 6, but we put ourselves in that position by tanking. 

3. We gave up a ton for Hunter. Definitely not luck to get him. And while it may have been lucky to scoop up Cam at 10 (jury still out), we were very much unlucky in the lottery that year. Schlenk also projected the Mavs to finish around that spot, so again, not luck.

4. Not sure how we lucked into Okongwu. Seems like he was always one of the main players projected to be there at 6. And it took an entire season of being patient with him to have him finally be in a position to contribute now.

There are lucky breaks in every success story, but I think you're way off on chalking that all up to luck. Schlenk is just damn good at his job. 

[kg01]

We're in the conference finals for jeebus sake!

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

Yikes.

And, on an unrelated note, if @Spud2nique tries to tell you I called for the Hawks to draft Sexton, just don't ask me what it was.   Just don't ask me what it was ....

Nah bro I’m not bringing up anything. We are chip hunting. I’m giddy.

[Spud2nique]

27 minutes ago, kg01 said:

We're in the conference finals for jeebus sake!

Ok I’m up from a power nap (a few hours)… 

 

LETS GEEEEEETTTTTTTTT IIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTT GAME 2 is ours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
 

Lets leave Wisconsin and never go back! (Well until next year but..) 

 

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TEEEEEEEAAAAMMMMMMMMMM 

PLAY LIKE ITS GAME 7,

WE CANT GET COCKY THE MISSION ISNT OVER 

 

@kg01 how’s that? People woke yet? Are we ready to get crunk ? 
 

 

[Spud2nique]

@kg01 2 hours from the tip..  

I’m sorry I’m giddy.

[NBASupes]

We tanked two seasons. Bud's final year and Trae's 2nd year. We did not tank Trae's rookie year, we tried to win.