The Supes' Historical Charts

[NBASupes]

These charts, Supes rates the top 5 in (Atlanta) Hawks history of all players he's seen in different categories. 

Best Atlanta Hawk of all time:

1. Dominique Wilkins - GOAT Hawk. While I do see Trae surpassing him like next year. He's the one with the statue and probably will be nationally seen as the Hawks GOAT for many years to come. 

2. Lou Hudson - The 6 time all star, one time 2nd team All-NBA, Sweet Lou experienced our best in St. Louis and early in Atlanta and worse, most of his time in Atlanta. Lou was an excellent scoring guard. 

3. Trae Young - I really can't put Trae who has only one All star appearance ahead of Lou and Nique but let's be real. Trae is already one of the best offensive players in the NBA at 22. It's foolish to have him anywhere else but 3 at this point. He will pass Lou and Nique soon. 

4. Al Horford - Of course, this will get the ire of this board as Al isn't as appreciated by others as he is with me but he's the most impactful Hawk I've ever seen so far. Trae is getting there but his offense has to be GOATish considering how bad he is defensively. Helped us win 60 games. The most winningest Hawk of all time. Lead us to our first ECF since 1970. 

5. Iso Joe Johnson - I have Iso Joe ahead of Pistol Pete even if Pete was better in NO than Joe was at any point of his career but for Atlanta, Joe was better. There was a lot of Hawks to choose like Deke, Mookie, Smitty, Millsap, Lenny, Pete obviously, and Willis but Iso Joe was a cut above most for us and he played along time in Atlanta. 

 

Best offensive Hawk of all time: 

1. Trae Young - I don't see how you can say anyone but Trae. He came in one of the most skilled players in the NBA and the best half court player as a rookie. He's dominating the playoffs against the best defensive teams. Case for Nique and Lou just isn't strong enough for me. 

2. Nique - I don't even have to explain

3. Pistol Pete - 2nd most skilled Hawk ever. I used to think he would be the most skilled Hawk forever but Trae came. 

4. Sweet Lou - Look at my stats bro. 

5. Smitty - After 4, the dropoff was massive. You can make a case for 15 guys but in reality, Smitty was the most skilled and versatile offensive talent on the board. I do think Bogi, Hunter, and Cam can eventually land on this list at 5 but I doubt any of them are landing at 4 or higher. 

 

Best defensive Hawk of all time: 

We are actually legit good here. 

1. Deke - Short reign but what a reign it was. He left no doubt for me. 

2. Al Horford - Easily the best modern defender in Atlanta history, hell, he's the face of the modern 5 in the NBA. His ability might not be appreciated in the 90, 2000, and early 2010s but in the modern NBA, Al is king and his defensive value is elite. 

3. Capela - Only here for two years and already 3rd. That's how good he's been on that end. It's likely impossible for him to pass Al or Deke for me on this end, I do think it's going to be extremely difficult to pass Capela for anyone below. 

4. Mookie - He's the best perimeter defender we have ever had. He wasn't perfect and his peak was short lived but the 6x all defensive team member was a menace and his WS was his proof. 

5. Josh Smith - This was a tough one for me because we had so many good names to choose from left but Smoove was probably the guy I would choose even if he had a lot of flaws on this end as well but his talent was exceptional on this end. His defensive WS was off the charts for anyone and his production was always highlighted by his elite athleticism and versatile defensive skill-set. 

 

Best passing Hawk: 

1. Trae Young

2. Pistol Pete 

3. Doc Rivers

4. Mike Bibby

5. Lenny Wilkens

 

Best shooting Hawk

Shooters really didn't because a thing till more recently and most of our shooters were severe role players. 

1. Kyle Korver

2. Iso Joe

3. Jason Terry

4. Bogi

5. Horford

 

Most talented Hawk

1. Josh Smith - The most talented Hawk of all time. No one had more talent, no one had more severe flaws. While I didn't think he reached his full potential, he ended up better than I thought he would. I still remember, Josh Smith got nearly as much talent as LeBron, why is LeBron so much better? Basketball is a hard sport. 

2. Cam Reddish - When we drafted him, we knew he was the most talented player in his class which included Zion, Ja, Hunter, and R.J. His talent level has shown but his impact hasn't plus he's more raw than even Smoove was offensively. He has less talent than Smoove and more flaws but doesn't have anywhere near the severe flaws plus the amount that Smoove had. 

3. Trae - When we drafted him, I said he had the highest offensive ceiling and as a rookie, he could be the best offensive player to ever play the game. He hasn't disappoint at 22 years old. Defensively, we all knew the limitations. 

4. Nique - Nique was an older more polished prospect so unlike the others above him, he was a lot closer to his ceiling than they were as prospects, but my goodness he was an athletic freak who had an intriguing skill-set who was perfectly built for what the NBA was at that time. He was a lot more skilled than scouts realized in the NBA. Him and VC are two that really caught scouts off guard skill-wise compared to their college tape. 

5. Iso Joe/DerMarr Johnson - The hardest for me as both players are extremely talented as well as everyone is on this list. Johnson was so insanely raw, if he didn't have that car crash that almost killed him and took him out of the game for year+ who knew how good he would be. Joe was also extremely talented and raw as a prospect but he lived up to his potential and he was always one of the most talented Hawks. 

 

Best Hawks who know how to play Basketball - High BBIQ, feel for the game, impact guys. Guys who excel at the mental game. 

1. Al Horford

2. Deke

3. Paul Millsap

4. Mookie

5. Smitty

Moses Malone and Mike Bibby were too old when they came to us to qualify w/ us. Trae is growing and should pass Mookie and Smitty next year. Hunter and Bogi all got a chance to make it. 

 

Most athletic Hawks

1. Nique

2. Smoove

3. JC - I think the top 3 guys are a lock. JC might have more impactful use of athletic ability than Smoove but he is no where close to Smoove for athleticism in general. With the exception of Joe and Spud, none of our best athletes had good lateral movement on D. 

4. Joe Caldwell - Jumping Joe was one of the most athletic players in his era if not the most athletic. His genes still reigns with his grandsons Marvin Bagley III and Marcus Bagley. 

5. Spud Webb - It's hard to give Spud this but not really. 

 

Best rebounding Hawk

1. Capela

2. Moses 

3. Deke

4. Willis

5. Al

5. just kiddin' John Drew

 

Hawk with the highest BBIQ

1. Bibby - This dude literally made an impact at like 80 with us just due to his BBIQ. He was off the charts in every mental category. 

2. Horford

3. Millsap

4. Smitty

5. Ya'll gonna hate me for this because his shitty decision making skills, insanely low feel for the game, and incredulous shot selection but Josh Smith. Smith was the smartest Hawk during his era by multiple sources, from coaches, players, etc. He knew every play, where everyone was suppose to be, Smoove was one of those MENSA guys who just understood Basketball at an insanely high level but I just wished he could of applied it better.  

It's really hard for me to pick guys from an era I did watch the Hawks much in this area. BBIQ is hard to know if you don't watch them play. 

 

Most disappointing Hawk

1. Marvin Williams - He wasn't bad but he costed us a chance at CP3 and Deron. That's a massive error. 

2. Shelden Williams - He didn't really cost us anyone that was great but he was so bad, he was a waste at 5 no matter what as a player. He's still in the org working for CP Hawks and I hear he's a talented coach with real potential. I wish Shelden the best.  

3. Speedy Claxton - He was suppose to solve our PG woes that we had since Mookie moved on. That was not the case. He barely played for us. It's like Kris Dunn but with a lot higher expectations. Remember, this era, the PGs position was bare at best across the league. 

4. SAR - He was a disappointment for me because he was an empty stats guy and costed us Pau Gasol who was an impact guy and a legit HOFer. He probably should be at 2 but it's hard to say he's a bigger disappointment than someone who was awful and someone who didn't even play. 

5. J.R. Rider - He costed us a washed Smitty so it wasn't that bad in value but he was so BAD for us. He was just putting up empty stats left and right thinking he was balling. Glenn Robinson has a strong case as well as Toni Kukoc. 

 

Biggest steals as a Hawk

1a. Josh Smith - 17th overall, massive steal. 47.6 WS. Wow! 

1b. John Collins - 19th overall, massive impact from his draft position. About to get paid well. 

3. Jeff Teague - 19th overall, More of a 4th or 5th starter. Made one all star. Had a great career and still playing. 

4. Kevin Huerter - 19th overall, Most of a 4th to 5th starter and for us with Trae, more of a 6th man. He could have as good a career as Teague if not better. Unlikely to surpass Smoove or JC but could. 

5. Jamal Crawford - We got him for Acie Law and others. He was massive for us. He basically created that modern 6th man role that was common in the 80s but ended in the 90s and 2000s but came back with JCrossover. 

 

Most entertaining Hawk

1a. Trae - Could go down as the most entertaining player in NBA history. To be already at 1 with Nique at 22 looks bright for his career. 

1b. Nique - Human Highlight Reel

3. Pistol Pete - It's Pistol

4a. Iso Joe - Massive gap from the top 3 but Iso was good for big game shots. 

4b. Sweet Lou - Smooth player. 

 

Most boring Hawk - Guys who played legit mins only

1. Jacque Vaughn

2. Jon Berry

3. Tyrone Corbin

4. Chris Crawford

5. Bimbo Coles

 

Best coach 

1. Lenny Wilkens - The best coach in Hawks history. He had more ability than anyone of this list and he was the best in most areas. 

2. Nate M. - I know it's too early but it's looking like we got the next Steve Kerr in terms of perfect fit with talented roster. 

3. Czar - One of the best coaches of his era but he had some severe flaws like Mike D. 

4a. Bud - Probably the best RS coach on this list but he turns into the coaching Ben Simmons in the playoffs. 

4b. Hubie - One of the smartest guys in the sport of all time but communication with players was always an issue for Hubie. He always wore out his welcome FAST! Tremendous talent like LP but achieved a lot more career wise than LP. 

LP has tremendous talent but he's miles away. Stotts had the talent but was too soon in his career, Woody had a tremendous arc but we all know he's a limited coaching talent overall. Richie Guerin, I don't have no insight of his coaching to rank him good or bad. 

 

I am not going to do a best executive list. Travie is the only good one in Hawks history. Even the Nique trade was because Roundtree played him in the summer and told Ted (Hawks owner at the time) by any means, go get Nique who didn't want to go to Utah in the 1st place. All of them sucked or was average at best like Rick. There is a reason why our franchise been void of success. 

 

 

I'll add more as time goes along. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by NBASupes

[Spud2nique]

Omg that’s huge Supes. (That’s what she said gif).

I gotta read it all in detail later but as of now I got…

1. Nique

1A. Trae

Trae is overtaking him in a generation basketball type way of course and will so with time. It’s hard for me to ever put Nique second but happily and sadly the time has come or will come shortly.

[Spud2nique]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

2. Jon Berry

Barry, he’s a moron and even hated on us like Woody for a min there but his brother Brent is a stud. I’d love that guy to somehow join Schlenk as his “assistant”.

[Spud2nique]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

1a. Trae - Could go down as the most entertaining player in NBA history. To be already at 1 with Nique at 22 looks bright for his career. 

1b. Nique - Human Highlight Reel

It’s the case of :

1. Do you enjoy dunks or 3 point bombs and amazing passing?

I imagine them playing together and I drool like a baby.

[Spud2nique]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

3. Czar - One of the best coaches of his era but he had some severe flaws like Mike D. 

I was mad at him for giving us a ceiling. Then again in his defense our roster sucked so it hurt him and Nique. You can only do so much you are given to work with..  or… ya.

Oh, also there was a back n forth that he upset Nique and talked behind his back in the early 90’s, I remember that, not sure if it was but if so that’s not cool Frat cuz Nique gave you on the court.

[Spud2nique]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

4. SAR -

Still bought his Pete era green jersey. Early 2000’s. I remember him putting up a fity on the Pistons in the ATL.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Spud2nique

[NBASupes]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

Still bought his Pete era green jersey. 

I remember those jerseys. This was when NBA jerseys was selling like hotcake due to rap. 

[Spud2nique]

15 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

4a. Bud

He deserves more and you know it! God I hope we see him and beat his a$$ next round. I’d almost do anything to make this happen. 

 

16 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

1. Marvin Williams

I got 2 jerseys of this fool! Including a yellow 2005 alternate jersey I bought in his rookie year. I thought he was gonna be our “James Worthy”. He became our John Koncak. 

 

18 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

2. Moses 

3. Deke

Deke ahead of Moses if you mean as a Hawk only, if entire career then Moses. Moses came to us old.

19 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

3. Speedy Claxton

Craaaaiiiiiiiggggg. 

 

20 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

5. Spud Webb - It's hard to give Spud this but not really. 

Awww thanks bro. 

 

20 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Best Hawks who know how to play Basketball - High BBIQ, feel for the game, impact guys. Guys who excel at the mental game. 

1. Al Horford

2. Deke

3. Paul Millsap

4. Mookie

5. Smitty

TRAEEEEEE!!!!! He is the smartest already. This fool has a higher BBIQ than anyone.

 

21 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Most talented Hawk

Augmon. Came to us a a decade type of defender. I loved plastic. Even at the grocery story when they’d ask if reply…

 

PLASTIC BISHHHH!!! 

[NBASupes]

Lou Hudson also elevated his game like Trae in the playoffs. Just something to keep note. 

[Spud2nique]

23 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Best shooting Hawk

Shooters really didn't because a thing till more recently and most of our shooters were severe role players. 

1. Kyle Korver

 

Between Korver and Trae. Trae is a different animal bro. I’m an old school dude and HATE having anyone pass those Nique types but when it comes to shooting it’s him and Korver. 

 

25 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Best defensive Hawk of all time: 

We are actually legit good here. 

1. Deke - Short reign but what a reign it was. He left no doubt for me. 

2. Al Horford - Easily the best modern defender in Atlanta history, hell, he's the face of the modern 5 in the NBA. His ability might not be appreciated in the 90, 2000, and early 2010s but in the modern NBA, Al is king and his defensive value is elite. 

3. Capela - Only here for two years and already 3rd. That's how good he's been on that end. It's likely impossible for him to pass Al or Deke for me on this end, I do think it's going to be extremely difficult to pass Capela for anyone below. 

4. Mookie - He's the best perimeter defender we have ever had. He wasn't perfect and his peak was short lived but the 6x all defensive team member was a menace and his WS was his proof. 

5. Josh Smith - This was a tough one for me because we had so many good names to choose from left but Smoove was probably the guy I would choose even if he had a lot of flaws on this end as well but his talent was exceptional on this end. His defensive WS was off the charts for anyone and his production was always highlighted by his elite athleticism and versatile defensive skill-set. 

Plastic man ? Really? Dang.

[Spud2nique]

26 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Best offensive Hawk of all time: 

1. Trae Young - I don't see how you can say anyone but Trae. He came in one of the most skilled players in the NBA and the best half court player as a rookie. He's dominating the playoffs against the best defensive teams. Case for Nique and Lou just isn't strong enough for me. 

2. Nique - I don't even have to explain

 

27 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

1. Dominique Wilkins - GOAT Hawk. While I do see Trae surpassing him like next year. He's the one with the statue and probably will be nationally seen as the Hawks GOAT for many years to come. 

2. Lou Hudson - The 6 time all star, one time 2nd team All-NBA, Sweet Lou experienced our best in St. Louis and early in Atlanta and worse, most of his time in Atlanta. Lou was an excellent scoring guard. 

3. Trae Young - I really can't put Trae who has only one All star appearance ahead of Lou and Nique but let's be real. Trae is already one of the best offensive players in the NBA at 22. It's foolish to have him anywhere else but 3 at this point. He will pass Lou and Nique soon. 

Beautiful. I wish I had a chance to see original sweet Lou (not the one gonna tear it up in Philly tomorrow) play live. His stats are off the charts and he seemed like a boss for sure. 
 

Trae and Nique made your list the most I think as far as repetitive times on lists. Nice work @NBASupes I dig your stuff. It’s always like reading stuff going on in my head but fun to discuss with you all at squawk. Thanks  

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

He deserves more and you know it! God I hope we see him and beat his a$$ next round. I’d almost do anything to make this happen. 

 

I got 2 jerseys of this fool! Including a yellow 2005 alternate jersey I bought in his rookie year. I thought he was gonna be our “James Worthy”. He became our John Koncak. 

 

Deke ahead of Moses if you mean as a Hawk only, if entire career then Moses. Moses came to us old.

Craaaaiiiiiiiggggg. 

 

Awww thanks bro. 

 

TRAEEEEEE!!!!! He is the smartest already. This fool has a higher BBIQ than anyone.

 

Augmon. Came to us a a decade type of defender. I loved plastic. Even at the grocery story when they’d ask if reply…

 

PLASTIC BISHHHH!!! 

No, his playoff performances was just too shit for me even if he was the best RS coach we ever had. I'll give him props for using Horford right. I've give him that but the playoffs came and he failed at everything. 

I never really liked him like that. I wanted Deron or CP3. I liked Deron more at the time but they were my clear #1 and #2. #3 was Bogut for me. I never brought the hype of Marvin as a prospect. I was pissed when we picked him. 

No probs!

He still got a lot to learn and he is learning quickly but he's needs more time. Guys on rookie deals no matter who they are will never be on the BBIQ list for obvious reasons outside of CP3. Even Nash, Kidd, and Stockton wouldn't be listed in this area within their first 4 seasons. Magic and Bird was but once again, they came in a lot more polished than the guys of today. 

LMAO! Plastic Man defense was great but the one thing the Atlanta Hawks have an abundance of was great defense which is why they have a lot of wins as a franchise but no impact as a champion. He deserves mention for sure with his defense but he's no where close to the most talented Hawks list. You gotta be extremely talented on both ends or generational offensively to even qualify. 

 

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Between Korver and Trae. Trae is a different animal bro. I’m an old school dude and HATE having anyone pass those Nique types but when it comes to shooting it’s him and Korver. 

 

Plastic man ? Really? Dang.

Trae is a different animal as a scorer but as a shooter, I wouldn't put him in the top 15 yet. Even in the last 20 years, you got like 4 shooters better than him on each of these squads. I do think he got potential and he takes a lot tougher shots than all of them but once again, this is shooting, scoring is another category. One where Trae is top 3 right now all time for us. 

 

Not over those guys for me. 

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

 

Beautiful. I wish I had a chance to see original sweet Lou (not the one gonna tear it up in Philly tomorrow) play live. His stats are off the charts and he seemed like a boss for sure. 
 

Trae and Nique made your list the most I think as far as repetitive times on lists. Nice work @NBASupes I dig your stuff. It’s always like reading stuff going on in my head but fun to discuss with you all at squawk. Thanks  

Sweet Lou is underappreciated. Him and Iso Joe are in a class of their own for wings for us and these two are the best in our history. 

They will likely made many of the other ones I will create as well. They are the two of the three best Atlanta Hawks of all time. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

 

Best Atlanta Hawk of all time:

• 1. Nique
• 2  Trae
• 3. Lou
• 4. Joe Johnson
• 5. Pistol 

 

Best offensive Hawk of all time: 

• 1. Trae ( scoring + passing )
• 2  Nique
• 3. Lou
• 4. Pistol
• 5. Joe Johnson

 

Best defensive Hawk of all time: 

• 1. Dikembe
• 2. Mookie
• 3. Millsap
• 4. Josh Smith
• 5. Capela

 

Best passing Hawk:

• 1. Trae
• 2. Doc
• 3. Pistol
• 4. Mookie
• 5. Josh Smith

 

Best shooting Hawk

• 1. Korver
• 2. Lou Hudson
• 3. Joe Johnson
• 4. Randy Wittman
• 5. Craig Ehlo

 

Most talented Hawk

• 1. Dominique
• 2. Trae Young
• 3. Lou Hudson
• 4. Pistol
• 5. Joe Johnson

 

Best Hawks who know how to play Basketball - High BBIQ, feel for the game, impact guys. Guys who excel at the mental game. 

• 1. Trae Young
• 2. Doc Rivers
• 3 Paul Millsap
• 4. Joe Johnson
• 5. Dan Roundfield

 

Most athletic Hawks

• Dominique
• Josh Smith
• Stacey Augmon
• Dan Roundfield
• Josh Childress

 

Best rebounding Hawk

• 1. Capela
• 2. Moses
• 3. Dikembe
• 4. Willis
• 5. Dan Roundfield

 

Hawk with the highest BBIQ

• 1. Trae 
• 2. Millsap
• 3. Dan Roundfield
• 4. Joe Johnson
• 5. Horford

 

Most disappointing Hawk

• 1. Shelden Williams
• 2. Acie Law
• 3. Marvin Williams
• 4. Big Dog Robinson . . ( definition of empty stats )
• 5. Speedy Claxton

 

Biggest steals as a Hawk

• 1. Traded John Drew for Nique
• 2. Traded a bunch of role players for Bibby
• 3. Signed Millsap on the cheap
• 4. Josh Smith
• 5. John Collins

 

Most entertaining Hawk

• 1. Dominique
• 2. Trae
• 3. Pistol
• 4. Josh Smith
• 5. Jamal Crawford . .  ( pains me to say this )

 

Most boring Hawk - Guys who played legit mins only

• 1. Solomon Hill
• 2. Alan Henderson
• 3. Duane Ferrell . . ( also one of the most underrated Hawks )
• 4. Anthony Johnson
• 5. Jon Koncak

 

Best coach 

• 1. Lenny
• 2. Fratello
• 3. Nate
• 4. Bud
• 5. Woody

 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

LMAO! Plastic Man defense was great but the one thing the Atlanta Hawks have an abundance of was great defense which is why they have a lot of wins as a franchise but no impact as a champion. He deserves mention for sure with his defense but he's no where close to the most talented Hawks list.

You forget the runnin rebs. Grandmama and Plastic with Hunt and Anthony. I dunno man, Augmon was the IT guy as far as talented defensive wings went back in the day. He was before his time in some ways. Although Augmon offense was pretty bad, specially from perimeter he got better but never at all anything good.

[NBASupes]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

You forget the runnin rebs. Grandmama and Plastic with Hunt and Anthony. I dunno man, Augmon was the IT guy as far as talented defensive wings went back in the day. He was before his time in some ways. Although Augmon offense was pretty bad, specially from perimeter he got better but never at all anything good.

He was. That's still my favorite squad of all time. The only squad that actually comes close is this year's Baylor team and they don't have the talent to play with those Rebs. No one in the modern college game can play with the 80s and 90s powerhouse teams because those teams had tremendously talented experienced players. 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Trae is a different animal as a scorer but as a shooter, I wouldn't put him in the top 15 yet.

Damn really. I been watching Hawks for year like you and I never been too comfortable with anyone shooting outside of like Korver, Joe Johnson, Bibby for a bit, and Trae really. Even guys like Hinrich or someone we brought in that was supposed to be good was never super trustworthy to me but Trae has an unbelievable feel for his shot. The ball kinda cradles nicely in his paws before the release.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Damn really. I been watching Hawks for year like you and I never been too comfortable with anyone shooting outside of like Korver, Joe Johnson, Bibby for a bit, and Trae really. Even guys like Hinrich or someone we brought in that was supposed to be good was never super trustworthy to me but Trae has an unbelievable feel for his shot. The ball kinda cradles nicely in his paws before the release.

That's a different question, who do I trust shooting the ball? I will obvious want it to be Trae more than any other Hawk ever as he can do so much and he can get his shot off in so many ways but he's not shooter that when his shot goes up, I know it's going in. When Kevin, Bogi, Gallo,, Kevin, and Hunter before his injury shoot, I know it's going in and surprised when it's not. With Kyle, I put up the threes hands but with Trae, I am like, watching, then I cheer when it goes in. 

[Gray Mule]

Before your time.  St Louis Hawks - Championship year - 1958.

Bob Pettit - Historically, he's noted as one of the better players of his time.  He was part of the Hawk team that won it all in 1958.  I didn't see him play.  I only followed casually for many years.

1958 - The year I bought my 1st new car - a 1958 Ford.  Almost all of them were lemons.  When you see all the old cars today, seldom if ever do you see one of them.

Bob  Pettit - - He should be somewhere on these lists.