Our New Coach will have a lot of Work to do...

[Diesel]

There are some strongholds that he will have to break.. pull down.  One is definitely Trae and the Team on offense. 

It's not just sometimes.   Most times when Trae gets the ball, it's like Professor Xavier has caused Everyone around him to stop so that he can be moved around freely. 

This is what happens when Trae gets the ball most of the time...

My point is this is a problem with Trae and with the players that stop moving.   It will require pointed coaching.   And Trae will have to take it. 

We already know that the offense has to be creative. 

With that in mind, I don't know who will be the next head coach.   But our Young Kobe (AJ) also needs his Phil Jackson to come along. 

LF is on the clock.

 

 

[Vol4ever]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

There are some strongholds that he will have to break.. pull down.  One is definitely Trae and the Team on offense. 

It's not just sometimes.   Most times when Trae gets the ball, it's like Professor Xavier has caused Everyone around him to stop so that he can be moved around freely. 

This is what happens when Trae gets the ball most of the time...

My point is this is a problem with Trae and with the players that stop moving.   It will require pointed coaching.   And Trae will have to take it. 

We already know that the offense has to be creative. 

With that in mind, I don't know who will be the next head coach.   But our Young Kobe (AJ) also needs his Phil Jackson to come along. 

LF is on the clock.

 

 

Trae had a couple crucial turnovers at the end of the game against the Hornets.  

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Vol4ever said:

Trae had a couple crucial turnovers at the end of the game against the Hornets.  

His whole game was doo doo... and he scored a good amount of points.  However, his shots were off and out of the flow of the offense... all game. 

 

[StonedDogs]

What if this circus of clueless friends and unproven front office somehow pulled a magic trick with another team, traded Trae and Collins and got Wemb #1? New coach Wouldn't have much trouble.

Murray x Wemb would be a serious threat 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, StonedDogs said:

What if this circus of clueless friends and unproven front office somehow pulled a magic trick with another team, traded Trae and Collins and got Wemb #1? New coach Wouldn't have much trouble.

Murray x Wemb would be a serious threat 

First off, nobody is going to trade what might be the best player in NBA history for anything.   Let's say Charlotte wins the tankathon...  Why would they do that?  Why would Houston do that?  Why would Orlando do that?

Secondly, we are not trading Trae.  You may as well fix your mind now.   He's easily the most popular Hawk ever.   And he's not a bad player.   

Third, A lot of great players go through something like this.   Jordan did.  Kobe did.  It's called learning to win with a team.   If you don't think there was an Iso Jordan period... you're fooling yourself. 

The point is... whoever takes over the coaching for the Hawks will have to be the person who guides the team through all of this. 

Lastly, it's also indicative of this generation of players.   You see it in Ja.  You see it in Luka.  You see it in  Mitchell.   The thing is that National Media only shows the Highlights.   So you see ever Ja Slam.  But you don't get to see him shooting them out of the game.   You see everytime  Luka dipsy doos somebody.. but you don't see when he can't convert. 

This is just a period thing. 

 

[benhillboy]

I like Nate, his approach to team defense has always been sound (for context oft-bashed Bogi ranks 5th in 3 pointers contested and averages the same amount of deflections as Wiggins, KCP, and Kawhi.  Not saying he’s good by any means just that Nate gets good effort out of him when most probably wouldn’t.)

But yeah he has to go when you look at the Hawks’ field goals assisted percentages:

.487 on two pointers, league average .507

.757 on threes (next to last), league average .827.

While they look for a more imaginative coach, they also need to make a serious attempt to find that Big who can make some semblance of a play for someone else, doesn’t have to be AS caliber or even a starter.

Edited January 23, 2023 by benhillboy

[AHF]

A lot of the bad habits we see in the Hawks (especially in the fourth) have been characteristics of not just this team under Nate but other Nate teams in other cities as well.  I have zero faith that Nate will fix our issues on offense because he openly likes some of the bad tendencies and for others doesn't care enough to work to correct them.  A coach who cared about offense and hated iso play would call a timeout when a player started taking bad iso shots and sit them if needed.  I am skeptical that will ever happen under Nate but it needs to happen.

The irony is we have two players who have been elite in iso scoring this season:  Bogi and Griff.  But Nate expressly or tacitly endorses an offense down the stretch that removes both of them from the play in favor of Trae iso and DJ iso.  Trae's strength is not iso play so you are featuring a weakness when  you do that for him.  DJ is neither an elite scorer overall nor a standout iso scorer.  I don't advocate going to Griff and Bogi iso instead.  Try to run an actual offense.

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, benhillboy said:

I like Nate, his approach to team defense has always been sound (for context oft-bashed Bogi ranks 5th in 3 pointers contested and averages the same amount of deflections as Wiggins, KCP, and Kawhi.  Not saying he’s good by any means just that Nate gets good effort out of him when most probably wouldn’t.)

But yeah he has to go when you look at the Hawks’ field goals assisted percentages:

.487 on two pointers, league average .507

.757 on threes (next to last), league average .827.

While they look for a more imaginative coach, they also need to make a serious attempt to find that Big who can make some semblance of a play for someone else, doesn’t have to be AS caliber or even a starter.

I would have liked your comment if I understood the statistic. 

 

75.7% of the time, a three ball is assisted.   That means that 24.3% of the time a three ball is not assisted. 

I take that to mean that 24.3% of the time, somebody dribbles more than 2 steps to take a three pointer?  So this stat is sorta a measure of ball movement.

Meaning that when Trae or DJ or Dre or Bogi dribbles to a spot and shoots, it is different than a catch and shoot.

So we do less catch and shoots on three pointers than the rest of the league?

This is an odd way to try to say that our offense doesn't move the ball enough.   To wit,  I agree.   BUT...  we're like 20th in assists per game.   We're in the exact same place as last year.   There are some good teams below us like Cleveland, Miami, .  In fact, Dallas is dead last.   San Antonio is like 3rd.   Again, it's another thing about Ball movement... but just like San Antonio, having good ball movement doesn't suggest that you are a good team.   So I don't know where that stat takes us. 

Things that I think all fans can agree with is we should be doing better moving without the ball.   We don't create easy shots.  We play a playoff mode of offense and really it's not needed now.  We need to learn how to move without the ball.. that was a bigger problem last year in the playoffs.. we say we need more creators.   True, it helps but bigger would be movement that opens the floor for somebody to score easier.

 

 

 

[benhillboy]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

I would have liked your comment if I understood the statistic. 

 

75.7% of the time, a three ball is assisted.   That means that 24.3% of the time a three ball is not assisted. 

I take that to mean that 24.3% of the time, somebody dribbles more than 2 steps to take a three pointer?  So this stat is sorta a measure of ball movement.

Meaning that when Trae or DJ or Dre or Bogi dribbles to a spot and shoots, it is different than a catch and shoot.

So we do less catch and shoots on three pointers than the rest of the league?

This is an odd way to try to say that our offense doesn't move the ball enough.   To wit,  I agree.   BUT...  we're like 20th in assists per game.   We're in the exact same place as last year.   There are some good teams below us like Cleveland, Miami, .  In fact, Dallas is dead last.   San Antonio is like 3rd.   Again, it's another thing about Ball movement... but just like San Antonio, having good ball movement doesn't suggest that you are a good team.   So I don't know where that stat takes us. 

Things that I think all fans can agree with is we should be doing better moving without the ball.   We don't create easy shots.  We play a playoff mode of offense and really it's not needed now.  We need to learn how to move without the ball.. that was a bigger problem last year in the playoffs.. we say we need more creators.   True, it helps but bigger would be movement that opens the floor for somebody to score easier.

 

 

 

Damn D now you got me confused lol.

Every team has warts, not saying a high assisted % equates to great ball.  The Celtics don’t get to the line, the Nuggets’ defense is mid, and the Grizzlies don’t take enough threes and their FT shooting is ass.  They’re all angling to make the conference finals without any major injuries.

A contending level offense will have a healthy dose of screening and cutting, draw fouls from penetration, and create rhythm catch and shoot threes.   The ones who usually take home the ‘ship are the ones whose focal player can consistently knock down contested jumpshots.  The Hawks were drawing fouls and getting rhythm threes pretty well during the win streak.  I’m just trying to illustrate the Hawks don’t get nearly enough cut action or open three creation based on the full season sample.

Hawks rank 3rd in cutting PPP but 21st in cut frequency at 6% (warriors lead league at 10%). The stat is misleading because they obviously count slip screens from Bigs (which I don’t). OO and Clint lead in those areas but you have to scroll a long ass way through the league to find a Hawks guard or wing.  AJ cuts .5 possessions a game.  I’ve been pleading for Bogi, Dre, Kevin, and now DJ to do it a lot more.  Trae will always hit you and rarely get intercepted on a cut find.

Edited January 23, 2023 by benhillboy

[benhillboy]

I’m not asking them to be Jimmy Butler (highest frequency non-Big cutter by a wide margin), just recognize when your man loses connection and go.  Dre, DJ, and Bogi’s defenders try to ball deny when they have it going.  Misdirection cuts work wonders.

Clint in the middle clogs up paint angled cuts at times but the baseline is your friend.

My bad for the big ass font (shrunk - AHF)

[StonedDogs]

11 hours ago, Diesel said:

First off, nobody is going to trade what might be the best player in NBA history for anything.   Let's say Charlotte wins the tankathon...  Why would they do that?  Why would Houston do that?  Why would Orlando do that?

Secondly, we are not trading Trae.  You may as well fix your mind now.   He's easily the most popular Hawk ever.   And he's not a bad player.   

Third, A lot of great players go through something like this.   Jordan did.  Kobe did.  It's called learning to win with a team.   If you don't think there was an Iso Jordan period... you're fooling yourself. 

The point is... whoever takes over the coaching for the Hawks will have to be the person who guides the team through all of this. 

Lastly, it's also indicative of this generation of players.   You see it in Ja.  You see it in Luka.  You see it in  Mitchell.   The thing is that National Media only shows the Highlights.   So you see ever Ja Slam.  But you don't get to see him shooting them out of the game.   You see everytime  Luka dipsy doos somebody.. but you don't see when he can't convert. 

This is just a period thing. 

 

First off, the Hawks traded Luka. 

Secondly popularity doesn't equate to championships. Barkley was popular too. Marbury and Iverson were popular. 

Third, Trae is not 6"6. 

Lastly I saw Ja give his team an edge. A chip on their shoulders. I see mitchell making the cavs a better team. Luka has nothing around him and has a winning record in the west. 

 

I have wrapped my mind around Trae, I get it, we're stuck. Its like Matt Ryan. 

[Diesel]

20 hours ago, benhillboy said:

contending level offense will have a healthy dose of screening and cutting, draw fouls from penetration, and create rhythm catch and shoot threes.   The ones who usually take home the ‘ship are the ones whose focal player can consistently knock down contested jumpshots.  The Hawks were drawing fouls and getting rhythm threes pretty well during the win streak.  I’m just trying to illustrate the Hawks don’t get nearly enough cut action or open three creation based on the full season sample.

Hawks rank 3rd in cutting PPP but 21st in cut frequency at 6% (warriors lead league at 10%). The stat is misleading because they obviously count slip screens from Bigs (which I don’t). OO and Clint lead in those areas but you have to scroll a long ass way through the league to find a Hawks guard or wing.  AJ cuts .5 possessions a game.  I’ve been pleading for Bogi, Dre, Kevin, and now DJ to do it a lot more.  Trae will always hit you and rarely get intercepted on a cut find.

I think that's the nail whoose head we have to hit.   We don't really set screens.. aside for the 1-5 PNR... but we need to set screens and create open shots through ball movement.   Like I said before, we take hard shots. 

[Diesel]

17 hours ago, StonedDogs said:

First off, the Hawks traded Luka. 

Secondly popularity doesn't equate to championships. Barkley was popular too. Marbury and Iverson were popular. 

Third, Trae is not 6"6. 

Lastly I saw Ja give his team an edge. A chip on their shoulders. I see mitchell making the cavs a better team. Luka has nothing around him and has a winning record in the west. 

 

I have wrapped my mind around Trae, I get it, we're stuck. Its like Matt Ryan. 

1.  Yes.  we did trade Luka.  OK.

2.   Popularity is only mentioned because his Popularity keeps butts in seats and for the ownership, that's a bigger prize than somebody like Kawhi.

3.  he doesn't have to be 6'6".    Does he??

Last I checked... Luka has gone no farther than us.   And the reason Luka has "nothing" around him is because he couldn't get along with the other players Dallas Had.   They had a very talented Center but Luka didn't like him and had him shipped to Washington.   Unfortunately Luka will keep Dallas good enough to never get anything useful out of the draft... and because of Luka's Dominance, he's never going to allow another player to be good enough to build up Trade capital. 

They got nothing for Brunsen.

Wood looks good but they won't allow his skills to flourish. 
Same is true of Dimwiddie and THJr and Finney Smith and Bullock.

 

[StonedDogs]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

1.  Yes.  we did trade Luka.  OK.

2.   Popularity is only mentioned because his Popularity keeps butts in seats and for the ownership, that's a bigger prize than somebody like Kawhi.

3.  he doesn't have to be 6'6".    Does he??

Last I checked... Luka has gone no farther than us.   And the reason Luka has "nothing" around him is because he couldn't get along with the other players Dallas Had.   They had a very talented Center but Luka didn't like him and had him shipped to Washington.   Unfortunately Luka will keep Dallas good enough to never get anything useful out of the draft... and because of Luka's Dominance, he's never going to allow another player to be good enough to build up Trade capital. 

They got nothing for Brunsen.

Wood looks good but they won't allow his skills to flourish. 
Same is true of Dimwiddie and THJr and Finney Smith and Bullock.

 

Luka has gone no further than us true. But Luka is top 3 in the NBA

All Luka needs is a number #2. He can get along with other players because I've seen him overseas win championships. Trae cannot get along with a coach. You're not afraid that we will have to play his style of ball until he's past his prime? 

 

Its so very similar to Matt Ryan and the falcons. We all knew Matt Ryan was limited and we needed everything to be perfect around him to get close to winning. I just dont wanna be that fan where we feel lets hold on to Trae because he fit the culture of the city. The dogs are coming up in this years draft and I'd hate for us to blow it with this tacky FO who have kids who play soccer against one another. I couldn't stand Thomas Dimitrov and only talent being riding bicycles on trails 

[AHF]

Just now, StonedDogs said:

Luka has gone no further than us true. But Luka is top 3 in the NBA

All Luka needs is a number #2. He can get along with other players because I've seen him overseas win championships. Trae cannot get along with a coach. You're not afraid that we will have to play his style of ball until he's past his prime? 

 

Its so very similar to Matt Ryan and the falcons. We all knew Matt Ryan was limited and we needed everything to be perfect around him to get close to winning. I just dont wanna be that fan where we feel lets hold on to Trae because he fit the culture of the city. The dogs are coming up in this years draft and I'd hate for us to blow it with this tacky FO who have kids who play soccer against one another. I couldn't stand Thomas Dimitrov and only talent being riding bicycles on trails 

In fairness, Matt Ryan was good enough to win a superbowl if things break even slightly more favorably for the Falcons against the Patriots.  If Trae gets us to that close, it would be not just the best team in Atlanta history but by far the best team.

[Diesel]

45 minutes ago, StonedDogs said:

Luka has gone no further than us true. But Luka is top 3 in the NBA

All Luka needs is a number #2. He can get along with other players because I've seen him overseas win championships. Trae cannot get along with a coach. You're not afraid that we will have to play his style of ball until he's past his prime? 

 

Its so very similar to Matt Ryan and the falcons. We all knew Matt Ryan was limited and we needed everything to be perfect around him to get close to winning. I just dont wanna be that fan where we feel lets hold on to Trae because he fit the culture of the city. The dogs are coming up in this years draft and I'd hate for us to blow it with this tacky FO who have kids who play soccer against one another. I couldn't stand Thomas Dimitrov and only talent being riding bicycles on trails 

The fact of the matter is you don't know if Luka could play with a #2.   Porzingas should have been the perfect compliment to Luka.   But Luka didn't like him.   I want you to read between the lines of what Porzingas had to say after being traded:

Quote

"There's no issue between us," Porzingis said of his relationship with Doncic off the court. "We were super cool, we will always hang out and I would say that's the biggest misconception."

So if they had problems... or beef and it wasn't off the court because they are the best of friends off the court....

\

 

Then what was the problem that would make Dallas trade away a 7'3" center giving you 20/10 with about 2 bpg for some BS?  Look at the trade:

Dallas sent former All-Star big man Kristaps Porziņģis and a protected 2022 second-round pick to Washington for guard Spencer Dinwiddie and forward Dāvis Bertāns.

That's some B.S. that they got in return. 

You know why they traded him... Because Doncic couldn't play with him...

Until he matures.. this is going to be Luka's issue.  Not being able to share the spotlight.