High School draft ????

[Gray Mule]

Lebron James. Great success story. Now, so many High

School kids dream of being the next huge success story.

More and more of them are declaring for the draft. Super

athletic teenagers, hoping it will happen to them. The

N.B.A. afraid not to draft the next one. What will the

fans say if we miss out on the next star?

So many decisions. High school superstar? Foreign

player, who has played for a while? One of the guys

who went on to school and matured before coming out?

How do you evaluate all this talent? Draft for need

or draft for potential? With an almost empty roster,

Hawks may be able to do both!

It just gets more and more interesting, doesn't it.

Then, where does our draft picks fall? Who will be

available when we get there? Will we swap picks with

someone in order to move up or down?

[Diesel]

It's to the HSers advantage not to get "PIMPED" by the NCAA. NCAA makes billions off of these young atheletes and they offer almost nothing in return in comparison. Lebron James Made 90 million dollars before playing 1 minute of NBA basketball. Had he gone to college like UNC, UNC would have made all this money and no way would Nike have thought about giving James a contract that large. It's obvious that playing in College causes your marketability to drop. Who was the last great college player to play til his senior year and come into the NBA and become a dominant player? - Tim Duncan right? How much marketing did Tim get when he came out? How much has he gotten since?

The same year that Tim Duncan, Brevin Knight, and Jacque Vaughn came out, Tracy McGrady came out. Who is the more marketable player? Mind you that Tim has won 2 rings and is on his way to a third... However, who is being marketed?

You say not fair... OK.

Had Tmac stayed in college for 4 years, he would have come out in 2001 with: Paul Gasol, Jason Richardson, Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry, and Shane Battier....What player of those mention is marketed anywhere close to Tmac?

[Lascar78]

they're not getting nothing in return, they're getting an education. Something most people in this country spend huge amounts of their hard-earned money to do, or take out tens of thousands of dollars in loans to get. It's not nothing. If you end up being an NBA star, you might not need it. But if you think you're ready and after a year or two you fail, you're left with nothing because you'll have spent most of your cash and have no diploma to fall on for an alternate career. There are plenty of examples

And I don't think marketing has anything to do with skipping college. Last I checked AI was getting marketed, Shaq was getting marketed, Pierce is getting marketed etc... I know they didn't go all 4 years but that's not the issue. NBA stars getting marketed are the ones with alot of charisma, alot of street cred, and ones that have spectacular moves. All of those are the reasons TD isnt on every commercial. He kisses shots off the glass and is consistent and fundamental, as opposed to more marketed players who take acrobatic shots on a nightly basis. He's quiet and well spoken, which doesn't speak to the increasingly "streetball" crowds. It has nothing to do with college. Kwame was the first #1 pick from high school. How much is he marketed? Not at all because his game just isn't that appealing.

The NBA needs an age limit to protect itself and starry eyed high-schoolers. Your average team has one or two "development players" at least on their bench. That's not good for the NBA game. This is supposed to be the best players in the world, not a training program. Come once you're ready. That being said, GM's are so enamored with potential, the exodus will continue until their is an age limit. I really think Stern will try to push one in in the next year or two.

[Packfill]

You have to be kidding me. Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Tracey McGrady, Lebron James, etc. are marketable not because they left school early or never went to college at all, but because they are GREAT PLAYERS. PERIOD. Lebron got a big contract from Nike because of media exposure and talent. Carmelo Anthony may have been as good a player today if he never went to Syracuse, but he sure would not have been as marketable. The exposure he got taking cuse to the championship is invaluable from a marketing perspective. You telling me he did not benefit from some time in College? Plus, having gone to college myself, college is a crap load of fun. One of the highlights of a persons life.

I hope Telfair succeeds because he has all the makings of a big bust and his sponsors will be kicking themselves in the pants because he will not sell product sitting on the bench.

At the end of the day you may criticise Duncan and players of his ilk for going to school and not being marketable, but Duncan has two rings - that is two more rings that McGrady, Garnett, LeBron, Amare and every high school to pro athlete not named Kobe (and Kobe won those rings because of some kid who spent a few years in college). I rather have a winning team than a marketable one - forget the fair weather fans and people whose idea of a players worth is the size of his shoe contract or latest pepsi commercial.

[Diesel]

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they're not getting nothing in return, they're getting an education.

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I agree with you that an education is good to have, but in comparison to what a great college player brings into a university, how much is an education worth???

http://money.cnn.com/1999/11/18/news/ncaa/

In 1999, CBS bought 11 years of NCAA March Madness for 6 Billion dollars.

By my trusted calculator, that's 545 million dollars per year.... Being that 65 teams per year play during the NCAA.... That means...

8.385 Million dollars per school is what the NCAA makes... Per player... for every 15 man team.....

that's $559,000 per player....

Let's compare that to the cost of education at a Div 1 school...

The Most expensive college in the land is Landmark College... $35,300.

So on their investment of at most $35,300 per year for one student, the NCAA makes $559,000 for that player... That's a 1,583% return on their investment....

And that's just half the story.... Schools get Shoe contracts, advertisement during games, independent TV deals during the season... and you know how it works... If a college team gets the right player, they can guarantee themselves some big money during the season. Then there's the whole league exposure.

I have seen campuses Built on the arm of one great QB... It happens by Basketball too. Colleges pimp these atheletes and give them very little in return...

[Diesel]

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ou have to be kidding me. Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Tracey McGrady, Lebron James, etc. are marketable not because they left school early or never went to college at all, but because they are GREAT PLAYERS. PERIOD.

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So, Tim Duncan is not a great player? He's the most dominant player in the game beside Shaq.... Yet, he doesn't have many commercials. Who knew that Lebron would be a star before he became a pro? He was just a HS player. He could have been the next Kwame... However, Lebron got over because of something that HSers have been getting over on for a long time... "The Unknown Potential". The longer you play in college, the more people can size up your game and unless you single handedly carry your team through the NCAA (ala Mello) you won't be marketable.

And Speaking of Mello, he makes my point. He carried his team through the NCAAs to the championship. Won it and every rookie accolade that you could win... YET it was Lebron who got the big contract with Nike. The same might happen with Howard and Okafur.

[Weez]

I won't go into length about this right now, but you forget that those dollars also fund all the other sports that DON'T make a profit or garner any revenue for their schools. Granted, I'm somewhat partial, having been one of those athletes on a "small sport," but I wouldn't have had a top notch training facility, travel money to away meets/accomodations, the chance to go to NCAA championships, the chance to train and qualify, during college, for the olympic trials and us nationals...without those dollars.

your point is valid. the school makes money. but do the kids actually "miss out" on anything? no. are they routintely harmed in any way? not really. they're given opportunities thta they otherwise never would have had ~ to go to schools that, for whatever reasons, they probably wouldn't get into based on academic standing alone. They decided to focus much of their youth on developing an athletic talent rather than a knowledge based one ~ and no one faults them for this, because upon graduating HS, they typically end up with the same, if not much better situation as their counterparts (aka free for those major sports that offer full and not partial) scholarships. They do benefit...

your argument is not without it's merit. however, the grass is always greener and someone's always making more money than you for doing less. But these kids are given somethign very valuable....

[KB21]

You are absolutely right.

A large portion of that money is funding other sports, especially women's sports due to the Title IX bullshit. You know, women's crew has to have their 20 full schollys, but baseball has to split 11.7 among 42 players.

[Diesel]

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your point is valid. the school makes money. but do the kids actually "miss out" on anything? no. are they routintely harmed in any way? not really. they're given opportunities thta they otherwise never would have had ~ to go to schools that, for whatever reasons, they probably wouldn't get into based on academic standing alone.

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The question that should be asked is is it right for a player (NBA player) to be Forced to go to college to get a chance to be a PRO? College teaches them very little about being pros... In some cases, College ill prepares them for the NBA (Duke University).

However, the question on the table is are they harmed. Let me go to Football. There was a guy who played for Ga Tech (Ken Swilling) He was an awesome player.. Projected top 10 in his Junior year. In his Senior Year, he was injured and couldn't make the team.... I used this example because it's fresh in my mind. However, it happens in basketball. Donnie Boyce is another that comes to mind. Shattered his leg playing for CU. He was a pro but never came close to being the athelete he was before his injury. Bottom line, in college, you play for little and if you get hurt, U have nothing.

As a first round draft pick, you get a 4 yr guaranteed contract that pays out at least 1 million per.

Unless I am some guy who is not good enough to be a pro... Why should I let college pimp me?

I see the point you are establishing... especially with other sports taking part... For that reason, I think that Student Atheletes should be given a stipend.

[Lascar78]

Even if there was an age limit, nobody's forcing them to go to college. If they want to turn down a free education and the best competition against players their age, they can. They can also play in any other basketball league, the ABA, foreign leagues, maybe the NBDL, and get paid there.

You don't typically hear people going crazy over the NFL age limit (except for Clarett enthusiasts this year...). Yes they can get injured before they're old enough to make the NFL, so what? If you want to do something else, go ahead! The NFL is a private league allowed to set age restrictions as they wish. It makes the NFL game better and helps the majority of young would-be draftees as a whole. Yes there are some exceptions that feel NFL ready before their time but too bad. They can do what they want if they're dumb enough to turn down a free education.

Ken Swilling earned a degree and I'm guessing he's using it now. If he had gone to the league and then gotten injured, he probably would have made 1 to 3 years worth of salary (not necc. that much $$), spent most of it, and have no degree. I don't see how his life as a whole would be better

[Weez]

I'm not sure you can compare it with football for several reasons. You rarely, RARELY see a guy suffer a career ending injury in basketball, esp. while he's in college. He may lose a season to an ACL...but that's a season. Football has the age limit (essentially), which creates a dramatic change in the "talent/rankings" as it's evaluated from HS-seniors to when those guys are drafted. Throw in the fact football contracts are non-guaranteed (one of the NFL's most pressing problem right now)...and this is getting off topic.

Ok, so they don't want to go to college. They don't have to. Go to the rapidly expanding ABA and NBDL and play for your life's blood. It's not much...but it's something. Or suck it up and go to Europe. All-Rookie Udonis Haslem said that going to Europe (by force) was probably the best thing that happened to his career ~ he gained appreciation and learned new ways to approach the game and became a better player because of it.

I didn't really want to the discussion down this road. And you could argue that the gm's just shouldn't draft the guys then...and indeed, many some aren't (a couple of guys last year, haven't looked them up). Others are taken by teams that really don't need any new players right now ~ aka, Portland when they took JO, Woods, Outlaw, Cooke...but then you get teams that are struggling, with GM's that can't afford the fingers pointed for missing out on guys like Amare, and you run into problems.

Now I've forgotten where this whole thing was going, but I think you see what I'm saying, they have other options, though they most likely HATE them cause they think (and are told) they're better than that and "deserve" better...though in truth they're not. No one's above the game.

[Weez]

For more on this ~ did you see Reggie Miller on PTI today when asked about what he thought about an age limit. Here's a guy that said he wants a ring more than anything, more than most cause he's been so close many many times...and has a shot now on a team comprised of three HS guys....and he thought it was watering down the sport/bad for the NBA. And these are the guys giving him his shot....pretty ballsy. A true "five good minutes."

[Nicholasp27]

all they gotta do is teach the hs draftees about money and wealth

if they just take that mil and invest it, then they'd have a 80,000-110,000/year salary on the interest alone the rest of their lives

if they don't get injured, then they can quickly add to that pot and raise it much higher, but even in the worst case jay williams injury first year type of deal, they are still set for life, never having to work again if they don't want

and they can still buy the benz with the 100k/year salary

the problem is they don't understand how money works, so they go out and buy a house and cars with cash instead of financing them at 4% while letting that cash make 8-11% (net gain of 4-7%) for them...same lifestyle, but making more so can sustain/increase lifestyle more

[Weez]

they actually do teach them these things. all the pro sports have a mandatory, week long training course on such matters (during the late summer I think), prior to the start of team camps and such. Granted, most players want to buy their parents a new house and such, and for this you can't blame them....but there is more left over after that, esp. for the first rounders.

temptation's a bitch though. as is the feeling that yo'ure invincible and the desire bling it up.

[Diesel]

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Ok, so they don't want to go to college. They don't have to. Go to the rapidly expanding ABA and NBDL and play for your life's blood. It's not much...but it's something.

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This is what Stern will have to do. He will have to make the NBDL bigger if he wants the NBA to survive. The truth is that the NBA can grow if it develops it's own minor league. Franchises that have no following can benefit from having it's own set of minor league teams. The Minor Leagues can establish a fan base for the major League teams. Then as players get called up from the minors, it will cause the interest of fans to focus on the major league team.

I think it would be a very good thing if there were more opportunities for players to go to the ABA or NBDL and get paid for their work and an opportunity to get called up. I think that the system we have right now is just another way for the college player to get pimped.. Don't get me wrong, I think it's good for the guy who really wants a college education and has no other means to get to college...

BUT..

For the guy destined to be an NBA superstar and not a college graduate...I think that the system is set up and it pimps them and in some cases it does cause harm.

For instance, I remember a guy whoose career was destroyed when it was revealed that he cheated on the SAT in order to get into college...The guy was not really college material but he was a helluva basketball player. Had it been popular for HSers to go straight to the pros, this guy would have made it. Instead, he was put on probation. Couldn't play for a few years... blah blah blah. Career over.

[Packfill]

Well, almost every other high paying profession requires you to graduate from college plus graduate school. Does law school really teach you to be a good lawyer - answer no (having been to law school and now working as an attorney I know).

Singling out Duke is nonsensical, the reason why alot of Duke players are not great pros is because they are not the greatest athletes. Plus, I think the success at the NBA level of players like Grant Hill, Elton Brand, Corey Maggette, Carlos Boozer and others atests to the fact that Duke is putting out some great NBA players these days.

I fully support the idea of a minor league system for the NBA, because it would really allow some of the younger players now entering the league a better chance to develop. Problem is it will cost the NBA a fortune.

[Nicholasp27]

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Granted, most players want to buy their parents a new house and such, and for this you can't blame them....but there is more left over after that, esp. for the first rounders.

temptation's a bitch though. as is the feeling that yo'ure invincible and the desire bling it up.

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that's my point tho, they can buy their parents a house and bling it up...just finance it, don't use cash

like i said, if they buy their parents a house with cash, then they are losing hundreds of thousands of dollars (difference in investing % - mortgage %)

same with cars, etc

[Sage11]

I agree with you EDS. I think a developmental league is needed for the NBA. Yet the problem Stern will face is making it stick with High Schoolers. As a lawyer I know you would anticipate any decision Stern makes to enforce an age limit to be legally challenged. The money is just too blinding for most talented athletes who see pro sports as their "only" chance of leaving poverty behind.

[Diesel]

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Singling out Duke is nonsensical, the reason why alot of Duke players are not great pros is because they are not the greatest athletes. Plus, I think the success at the NBA level of players like Grant Hill, Elton Brand, Corey Maggette, Carlos Boozer and others atests to the fact that Duke is putting out some great NBA players these days.

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Duke is the exact example of the difference between college and pros. Duke plays a team oriented offense and defense. It doesn't help the player become better. Now, I will give you Boozer and Hill both were/are extraordinary players... the point is that neither were made better by their time at Duke...

Maggette didn't even play 1 full season as a Starter and Brand left before the Duke season could ruin the street game that he had coming in. However, what about the names you didn't call:

Danny Ferry, Christian Laettner, Jay Williams, Bobby Hurley, Roshown McLeod, Tony Hill, William Avery, Johnny Dawkins, Shane Battier, and the list goes on and on and on...

The reason being is that Coach K doesn't teach players how to take over a game and how to be an individual on the court. In the NBA, that's what its all about. Being able to be an individual. At Duke, players are taught to trust others and to rely on others to cover certain things because everything they do is team... However, no pro team works that way. A star player has to learn to be the man...

That's why I would never draft a Duke player HIGH to be the team's star.... Had he not been Injured, Jay Williams could have sat and watched Hinrich take his position. Had he not gotten injured, Bobby Hurley would have never lived up to the hype. Every 5 or so years, there's an exception like Hill, Brand and Boozer... But it's very rare...

For instance, Deng... I would take him in the top 10 for nothing. I think it's safe to say that Charlotte will take him, but I wouldn't. He's very limited and he doesn't know it because all this while, he has had one role.