I say we take Hill, Howard, #1 for JT, #35, #43...

[Diesel]

The more I think about it, the more I like it...

We'd have #1, #6, #17, and #38.

I think Orlando would like it because they'd get JT and become a major player in the FAcy game. How major? They could get damp, Martin out of FAcy...

That team would actually be a contender:

Damp/Kmart/Garrity/Tmac/JT?

What about us....

We get some valuable pieces namely Dwight Howard.

I like that thought. The Youth and Power of Howard. We could watch him grow into our next KG.

We also get either Smith or Livingston or Gordon with #6.

#17 and #38 could be good players too.

Why take on so much salary?

We're in no hurry. Howard would probably be a good mentor to DH. Hill could probably be a good mentor to Diaw.

If we are patient, we can build something great by 2007.

[jezmund]

No thanks to Juwan Howard. He is the same type of player as JT to me. Puts up some numbers on bad teams but will never be an important part of a winning team. With Grant Hill, it all comes down to if he's wanting to try and play again or not.

[Diesel]

I'm not looking for Howard to be much more than a reserve and mentor...

Dwight Howard is the key...

All you guys who think that we are going to the championship next year... are fooling yourselves.

All you guys who think that we will get a big name FA to come here without overpaying him are fooling yourselves.

All you guys who think that we can get Dwight Howard for a minimum amount are fooling yourselves.

All you guys who think that we will do just as well with #6 as we would with Howard are fooling yourselves.

Right now is the time for big ballsy moves.

Right now is the time for Knight to outline the future.

If it takes 2 to 3 years... So be it. Minn has waited 6-7 years for their chance.

The Lakers wasn't built overnight.

I think we would do well if we got Howard and 2 more first rounders out of this draft even if it meant taking back 2 bad contracts. It's about the future and not the present...

[Admin]

Wow how many times have I had to say that over the years. No way in the world does Knight dump all of that salary and then turn around and just pick it right back up, but with worse players. That would be a PR nightmare.

If Knight made that foolish trade he would be saying sorry fans but the next 3 years we know we wont be [censored] and we will have a total of 8 straight years of not being [censored].

At least with our current position we have 2 good draft choices this year and plenty of cap room to spend or save for next year. We would be much smarter to trade JT/#6 or #17 + whatever else to get Howard rather than take on Howard and Hill just to get Dwight Howard. With the intelligent way that Knight is going about things, we will make a similar deal to one of those above to end up with Howard. That leaves us with a ton of caproom to throw at Kobe and see if we can get him. If not, we keep our cap space and sign cheap veterans and have an exciting full court team that will likely land a high lotto pick again next year.

I swear sometimes I just dont see how you dont realize that some of your proposed trades would ruin this franchise. Almost worst case scenario going into next season we could look like this:

JT/Telfair

2005 lotto pick/Hansen

Jax/Diaw

Biedrins/FA??

Pryz/Collier

plus 2 other scrubs. Thats an almost worst case scenario of we dont move up this year and dont sign any FA's other than our own and draft a SG in the lotto next year. Plus we also still have a boatload of capspace that we could sign 2 Max players with. We would probably be a SG and C away from being a big time contender. Maybe McGrady and Maglore or Gasol. Something like that. We would be ready to win in 2005, not 2007-2008 like you are planning.

Thank God you arent GM of the Hawks!!!!

[DominiqueWilkins]

Please....Please....Please

Delete the sunject or blow it up, FAST.

If a Magic fan came across that, they would reach into the internet transport, and SLAP you a big one.

Sorry I went a bit over board, but you would dfently be called some names by Magic fans.

Go to a Magic board and post it. Link it back up to this when you have some answers.

[Blunt91]

I don't want Grant Hill or Juwan Howard. As much as I would like for the Hawks to get Dwight Howard, if the Magic picked him and didnot want to trade him unless we picked up bad contracts I would say NO!! In that scernario we would go ahead and make a deal with the clippers to get Emeka Okafor.

[Diesel]

In order to be successful, you have to take risk. The real truth here is thank God you are not GM Dol!!!

Quote:

---

JT/Telfair

2005 lotto pick/Hansen

Jax/Diaw

Biedrins/FA??

Pryz/Collier

---

This is a team that can't even make the playoffs. Not to mention that it is a PR nightmare. What do we have to show for the trade? Biedrins will never be as good as SAR?

No. Put your thinking cap on.

Look back at the proposal I made. We definitely get Howard. The #1 pick overall. Howard becomes THE FRANCHISE. Our Micheal Vick. Hometown Hero. Plus we have 2 other lottery picks.

So what's the problem... Taking on Hill??

Did you think it through...

IF Hill doesn't make it through CAMP, he's sidelined for the season and either retires or gets the medical release. IF he does... DO you remember how good Hill is? He's the perfect role model for Diaw. He can teach Diaw how to become a scorer as well as passer.

It takes risk to be successful.

2 good picks are not better than 2 good picks and the best pick in the draft!!

With 2 good picks, you can be talking about Demarr and Hendu. Demarr was a 6 pick and Hendu was a 17... Neither one of those good picks were good enough for this franchise to turn us around. However, Howard has the potential to be the next KG. I have seen him play and he handles the ball better than any 6'11" player not named KG that I have seen. I'm talking about no look passes and drives through the lane....

And you call that a PR nightmare??????

Wake up and smell the coffee. If we don't come out of this draft with Howard.. What we say is that we are looking forward to another Mediocre future... Don't be fooled. Right now, no Free agent will sign with us if we don't overpay them... Even Jax. I betch Jax wants about 8 million per. I would rather take the chance and get Howard and 2 others.

Now... I have not defined the 2 others. However, let me put up a possible team for you to see.

Arroyo/Duhon

Jo Smith/Hansen

Hill/Diaw/CC

Howard/Howard/Hendu

Pryz/Swfit

This is just 1 configuration.... Where we get Howard#1, Smith#6, Duhon#38, and Swift#17 out of the draft. Regaurdless of if Grant Hill plays or not... This team has a core which is a future. This team shouldn't be a PR Nightmare because it shows that Atlanta is wiling to do what it has to do to get what it wants. That's just one configuration....

With #1, #6, and #17.. You can't lose...

The thing you have to understand is that this is a very even draft. Not a top heavy draft as before.

[Diesel]

You say that Orlando fans would reach into the internet and slap....

Ok... You must be about 12 - 13.

N E Way, let me school you right quick on why this is great for the Magic.

It gives them enough cap room to go after EVEN KOBE....

Would the Magic fans be mad if they had JT, Kobe, and Foyle instead of Okafor?

What about JT, Damp, and KMart instead of Okafor.

Don't get it twisted YOUNG dominique... Orlando is a place where FAs want to go... No. 1, there is NO TAXES.... Every Free agent who is making money wants that. No. 2, They get to play with Tmac...

Oh By the way... TMac...

Read this

Here's another article from Orgeonian Live (probably associated press)...

Quote:

---

Magic looks at Howard: Dwight Howard wants Tracy McGrady to give him a chance.

McGrady wants the Magic to trade the No. 1 pick in this month's draft for a veteran player who can help the team contend for a playoff spot.

McGrady has said he doesn't think Howard or Connecticut's Emeka Okafor can provide that kind of immediate help.

But Howard, the 6-11 prep star, reportedly has been impressive in individual workouts. He wants to show McGrady that if the Magic selects him, he can have an Amare Stoudemire-like impact.

"I'm a young 'KG' (Kevin Garnett) and Tim Duncan mixed together," Howard told the Orlando Sentinel.

Magic general manager John Weisbrod said teams have contacted him about trading for the top pick, and they are interested in Howard, not Okafor.

---

Young Dominique... We are the only team in position that can take away Orlando's debt (Howard/Hill) and give them a Shot at Kobe, Kmart, Damp... The only one.

[KB21]

Pete Babcock would make the trade you are talking about.

There is a pretty wide line between taking a chance and just flat out being stupid. Taking on Grant Hill's contract is just flat out stupid. It's not taking a chance. It is taking a torpedo to your entire rebuilding project. Grant Hill and Juwan Howard combined would take up all of the salary cap space the Hawks have.

Again. This isn't a Terrell Brandon situation, which was a fabulous trade made by Billy Knight. This is more of a Ken Norman situation, except with a lot more money.

[Wretch]

We have so much money available to sign players that it's ridiculous. The question though, is who are we going to sign? People are jumping around talking about putting a competitive team on the court next season - the same way they were talking about signing Stephen Jackson this season, and how he was supposed to stabilize us.

The problem here is that EVEN IN THE BEST CASE SCENARIO a competitive team just isn't good enough. In just about any other NBA city this would be fine. In Atlanta, we need an extreme makeover. Not the different wardrobe/haircut/makeup makeover, but the plastic surgery/dental work makeover.

The little tit-for-tat building of a team will not work. It is what Babcock did and it is how we found ourselves in perpetual mediocrity. We have to start from the ground up with an eye on 2 or 3 seasons from now. Today doesn't matter, it is tommorrow that this franchise should look at.

Diesel is on to something here. Something that we were discussing on Real GM about midway through the season. I'm not suggesting that we take on every bad contract from every team in the lottery to come away with 4 or 5 high-school ballers. Though, we have MORE THAN ENOUGH salary cap room to take on a bad contract to pick up a good draft pick. This is what Billy Knight has been hinting at in the interviews.

There will still be plenty of money left over. The cap is rising to 45 million. The only player on our team currently that will take up any of that beyond 05 is JT; and if he is dealt, then that'll be another 7 or so million to manuver with. We have the flexibility to take on bad contracts and still have money to pay significant free agents. That is the beauty of our situation right now.

I don't know about adding Howard to the mix. But I have no reservations about taking on Grant Hill. Even in the worst case scenario, we will still have money available to sign free agents. Coming out of this draft with the #1 and the #6 is worth the risk - especially with Billy Knight making these picks.

[KB21]

No it isn't, because Hill's contract will cripple any flexibility this team has in the future. By trading for Hill, $15 milliion of the Hawks $21 million available will be taken up.

[Wretch]

The salary cap is rising to 45 million. The only player with a significant contract with us beyond 2005 is Jason Terry at around 7 million, and if he were dealt we wouldn't even have that.

(take a look here)

Picking 1 and 6 gives you the chance to take 2 players that could turn a franchise around. Worst case scenario is that they both bust and Hill attempts to play, but can't, and we keep his money on the books for 2 seasons (with money still available to sign significant FA's). Best case scenario is we draft Howard and Smith/Livingston/Gordon/whoever and they become the next KG and Nique/Kidd/Davis/whatever...Hill returns to form and we end up with a steal, or he doesn't play and the insurance picks up his contract.

I'd take the gamble here, and with Knight making the moves I'd worry about nothing.

[Diesel]

A player of Howard and KG's ability out of HS only comes along every blue moon.

Tell me KB...

How much would you have given to get KG out of HS???

You ponder that and tell me why it is stupid to give up a COMBO gaurd who hasn't led us to even a .400 season and capspace that won't bring in a star for a potential superstar.

Babcock would have played it safe and we'd have Devin Harris with nothing to show for all the work done.

[KB21]

If you really believe that, then the Hawks should have simply kept Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Theo Ratliff, and Nazr Mohammed. Since you think the cap space isn't needed.

Grant Hill's contract counts $15 million, $16 million, and $17 million in the next three years respectively. Oh yeah!! That's very attractive for a team that is rebuilding. Let's go ahead and put ourselves behind the 8 ball by taking on that contract!!

You come up with these stupid ideas all the damn time. First, you kept coming up with ideas of how to acquire Penny Hardaway's cap destroying contract. Now, you want to acquire Grant Hill's franchise killing contract. You have either done something in the past that has completely fried your brain, or you simply don't have the Hawks best interest in mind.

It is completely stupid to take on that type of contract when you can deal the 6th pick, the 17th pick, and a future conditional first round pick to get the 2nd pick and then draft Dwight Howard.

[Diesel]

You say Hill's contract will criple us.

Let's say that your number of 21 (not 24) was right (even though it's not). Did you do all the math?

If we trade JT for Hill, that's 8.3 million lost, 15 million gained. That leaves 6.7 Million gained.... Are we crippled yet?? Add Howard's 5 million and that's 11.7 million gained.

By your numbers, we still have 9.3 million dollar PLUS MCE to spend.

On top of that, we have Dwight Howard the future of the franchise...

KB, you are just like Babcock in your thinking....

Think for today and today alone and take baby steps...

If we miss out on the Next KG or Duncan... That's OK... As long as we can post 40 wins.

That's the same dumb thinking that has lost the fanbase.

Atlanta needs an extreme makeover and a sign that it's no longer business as usual. The kind of moves you subscribe will lead this franchise right to St. Louis.

[Diesel]

Do you know what Rasheed Wallace said about Atlanta?

There's no way in Hell I would resign with them... That's why he was traded!

Think about it...

We could be what you are talking about had we kept Sheed. When we picked up Sheed, we was still in the race. With Sheed and Nazr, I am sure we would have won about 10 -12 more games than we did. We would have finished probably 8th in the division and been in the playoffs.

However, Sheed Knew when he came here that he had no plans of staying. So do most FAs. You guys get Happy about Kmart saying that he would play in Atlanta. Why? because he knows that Atlanta is the only team able to pay him the 14 million dollar max.

Good FAs who would come here would only come here if we would pay them more than they are worth....

That's the cold hard truth.

Now we can go out and load up on Bobby Suras and Pryzibillas and we can get one of those overpaid Free agents like paying Qrich 8 or 9 million... and we would have exactly what you want.... A playoff team at best.

However, is that the best direction for the team?

Right now, we are in a position to use this capspace to get the type of player that our franchise has needed for 20 years and you think that it's more important to save capspace for guys we would have to overpay or Guys who are journeymen....

Good God KB... Tell me that you are smarter than that!

There can be no success without risk.

[KB21]

Rasheed never once stated that he wouldn't resign with Atlanta.

The truth about cap space is that it gives you flexibility. Even if you don't sign the "big name" free agent, cap space allows you to be able to sign more 1-2 year contract types like Stephen Jackson. With the cap space, the Hawks could give that type of contract to Stromile Swift, Jamal Crawford, AND Chris Andersen while also resigning Stephen Jackson and Bob Sura.

Take on Grant Hill's contract, and that can't be done. I'd much rather give three players a short term deal that is cheap and will allow them to prove themselves than take on a cap crippling contract like Grant Hill's.

Hell, while we are at it. Let's just help Miami out and take Brian Grant's and Eddie Jones's contracts as well.

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

Rasheed never once stated that he wouldn't resign with Atlanta.

---

Oh, I guess I read between the lines too much... However, when Rasheed came here he and his agent said that they were very open to signing with the Knicks for the MCE in the offseason so that he can have a chance to win a title.

What that really says is that he's more interested in winning titles than making money...

So how were we going to resign him again?

[KB21]

Once again, you have taken something that was never said and have attempted to turn it into something. The Rasheed to New York business was all propogated by the New York Media.

[Sage11]

No way!! Knight will make some moves but what you suggest is not the way to build a champion, or even a contender.

We end up with a large payroll that can only win 30 games or so. Sounds familiar- yea what we just dismatled.

No Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!