Diesel gets caught contradicting himself to fit

[Admin]

his own personal agenda at the current time......good stuff!! I cant take credit for it, but I wouldnt want it to be missed since its in another forum on here.

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....p;fpart=1#51870

[Diesel]

But that's what it was. A prediction done before exhibition play started. Artest and Tinsley turned out much better than ANYBODY thought...

But it's good to know that you still care enough to go through the trouble of remembering what I said.

And I thank Dolfan for continuing to propagate it...

Now, why not go and talk bad about NBADRAFT.NET... They predicted Lampje would be in the lottery last year. Call them out too...

[Lascar78]

I'm assuming you still don't care to comment on your ABSOLUTE GUARANTEE that the draft is rigged and Atlanta would be a top 3 pick for sure in the draft lottery?

no didn't think so...

[Diesel]

The Clipps took the 5th place from us on a Coin Toss. Sorry, but you can't rig a coin toss. From that Coin Toss, they moved up to the 2 spot. I believe that it was set for the 5th place team to get into the Lottery. I also believe that it was rigged for Orlando to definitely win out. The reports said that they ran the machine after the Magic got in and their number came up the second time.

So in short. Had we won the coin toss, we would be in the lottery as the 2nd pick.

That's my comment.

[Lascar78]

OMG this is amazing. To quote American Beauty,

"Never underestimate the power of denial"

[Diesel]

So are you denying that had we had the 5th position we would be the #2 pick?

[Admin]

That doesnt mean it was rigged.......come on give it up Diesel just admit that you were wrong that it was rigged. I thought it would have been rigged for Atlanta to get one of the top two but I was wrong......so why dont you just admit that you were wrong as well.

[Lascar78]

guess what it was known that we lost the coin toss a long time before the lottery. That coin flip occured right after the season ended. As a matter of fact the coin flip happenned THE DAY AFTER THE SEASON ENDED. So I guess either you're saying they had to rig it the moment the season ended and before the coin flip because they just REALLLLLY needed that extra day, or you're saying that they went ahead and rigged it before the season ended when plenty of teams were still playing for position, tied or only separated by a game

For a man who is rigging a multi billion dollar industry without getting caught, without having the billionaire owners even worried about it, and who can have magical lottery drawing machines that can fool inspectors and all witnesses, he sure seems suddenly careless about this.

He had over a month and a half between the coin flip and the lottery but he just couldnt figure it out huh? But he could figure it out just a couple of days sooner when it was determined that Atlanta and LAC would be tied for 4th?

You're ridiculous. You said you'd admit to being wrong if we didn't get a top 3 and now you're dodging it. You can always come up with a reason afterwards. ALWAYS. That's why I asked for what was gonna happen before. And everyone said Hawks top 3, clippers and probably bulls not in the top 3

At least Wretch was man enough to admit he was wrong

I'm not sure if you're literally delusional enough to believe that that's what happenned or if your ego's too big to admit you were wrong but it's sad either way.

But I'm done on this. the power of denial is too strong to be overcome by reason

[Wretch]

Don't go mixing and matching what the two biggest "rigged lottery" proponents were saying. I stated what I believed would happen right before the draft, just like everyone else, but I didn't guarantee anything; and I don't recall Diesel saying anything about the Clippers or Bulls.

Again, I said that if the draft was rigged the team that got the 1st pick would likely be inclined to take Okafor. I believed that Orlando would land that top pick, or we would and select Howard - with each scenario changing what would follow dramatically.

I said that Chicago would not land in the top 2 and that the Clippers would not land in the top 3. I also said look for a Western Conference team to be thrown in there just to make things look legit.

I thought that as bold as Stern has been in the past (assuming the lottery was rigged then) that he wouldn't give a sh#t and throw some deserving teams into the mix - like Atlanta or Philly and a wildcard WC team like Utah or Seattle - with Okafor going to the team that needs him the most in ANY situation.

For conspiracies sake, giving Atlanta a top 2 pick would look VERY suspicious; but giving the Clippers (WHO CLEARLY DON'T NEED THAT PICK) does not. Is there a better team to have win the #2 pick? They almost have to deal it.

I said that if things didn't fall into our favor, or if Chicago was given a top 2 pick, or if the Clippers landed ANYWHERE in the top 3...that I would be less convinced that the draft is rigged. I said that I'm not a conspiracy nut who runs around and bends the results to suit my arguement nor do I simply find a bunch of things that could happen so that I can play on them when it does. I said that there is NO WAY to know how Stern wants things to play out if the lottery was rigged.

I admitted where I was mistaken...but I still am not totally convinced that it is legit. After watching the lottery for all these years, one lottery will not do that.

What keeps my eyebrows raised is the fact that Orlando did with the lottery, Chicago did not land in the top 2, one digit separated the Clippers from us winning, and that we will likely walk away with Howard through the Clippers anyway.

Though, if any fan (probably including Clipper fans) in the league had a choice to award a top pick in the draft to someone - there is no way in Hell they'd do it for the Clippers. I'd rather screw the Hawks than give the Clippers anything.

Anyway, that's my take on it. I'm about 70/30 for legitimacy right now and I believe that IF the lottery is legit then it is because David Stern wants it to be. And not for any other reason.

[Diesel]

The question becomes... Why is there a need for a draft lottery? The answer is nobody really knows. I mean, if you say to prevent tanking... I offer you the Clipps of this year and the Cavs of last year...

Bottom line, even though we didn't get in the lottery, it doesn't mean that the lottery wasn't rigged.

Chicago still didn't keep their top 3 lottery pick (did you forget about Chicago)... Seems to me that Chicago is still paying for the mistake of breaking up Stern's favorite dynasty.

Orlando still kept #1. With only a 20 something % chance, The machine spit out Orlando... Then on the second roll, it spit out Orlando again. What are the odds? You must admit that there are a lot of reasons to keep the Orlando franchise up.

The bottom line is that the Lottery has been rigged in the past from the cold envelope to the heavy balls. With NO purpose for a lottery, i still have to suspect that the lottery is still rigged today. Rigged for the purpose of allowing Stern to control the destiny of the league.

[Lascar78]

Quote:

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The question becomes... Why is there a need for a draft lottery? The answer is nobody really knows. I mean, if you say to prevent tanking... I offer you the Clipps of this year and the Cavs of last year...

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what are you talking about? no one knows? of course everyone knows, it's so teams won't have AS MUCH incentive to tank. Tanking gives you the best odds, but anything can still happen. Washington tanked and lost 3 more games than the clips. Yet they pick 5th while the clips are picking 2nd. Can you understand that? Do you see how their extra tanking was not rewarded like it would be without the lottery? It takes away one incentive of tanking because you're not guaranteed anything.

I'm not even going into the details again any futher, you two are hopeless

[Diesel]

The Clipps tanked the second half of their season. Did they win 1 game after the allstar break?

Their reward was the #2 pick of the lottery.

If there was no reward teams wouldn't tank. However, many teams have successfully tanked and it makes the whole lottery system seems purposeless. I mean, how many times should Chicago get SCREWED by this draft lottery before somebody changes it. Teams that have legitimate losses and legitimate need for a high draft pick get screwed on a consistent basis by teams that have done nothing other than tank their season. Why do you think Duncan is in San Antonio? Why do you thnk Kmart is in NJ? The bottom line is that the draft does not provide fairness, if anything you get somebody being treated unfairly. There needs to be something else. Maybe incentives.. But the draft lottery is still a joke if you believe it prevents tanking. If you doubt, wait until the next big star(s) come into the NBA via draft. Teams will tank seasons for their shot...

[Lascar78]

Quote:

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But the draft lottery is still a joke if you believe it prevents tanking.

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when did I say this? Once again you're showing that you can't even understand the argument or read a short paragraph. That's not the issue. Nothing can completely prevent tanking. Nothing. Take a look at what I wrote again and I suggest you pay particular attention to what's in CAPS:

Quote:

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what are you talking about? no one knows? of course everyone knows, it's so teams won't have AS MUCH incentive to tank. Tanking gives you the best odds, but anything can still happen

...

Do you see how their extra tanking was not rewarded like it would be without the lottery? It takes away one incentive of tanking because you're not guaranteed anything.

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There is no possible way to prevent tanking, because in the end you have to select a draft order that is determined by team record on some level. But it does remove an extra incentive. For instance we didn't tank bad because as Stotts kept sayin, they want to improve the team, and anything can happen in the lottery anyhow. He might have tanked at least one game to get in front of the Clips if there was no lottery. Can you understand that?

With no lottery, the team that tanks the best and gets the worst record has 100% chance of getting the #1 pick. With the lottery, they have a 25% chance of getting it. Therefore the reward for tanking has been significantly decreased by introducing randomness.

Your biased interpretation of the results is irrelevant in deciding whether or not there's a reason to have the draft lottery. Yes sometimes the "good guys" get screwed, sometimes the "bad guys" get the #1 pick out of nowhere, sometimes the "good guys" get rewarded and sometimes the "bad guys" get bounced out. That would be what randomness does for you : anything is possible in a given drawing.

I keep wanting to drop this but your blatant ignorance keeps pulling me back in