300 LB Agile Center or 4th Championship to Lakers

[Guest]

Well I know the Hawks are not thinking NBA championship yet --- but if the Hawks or any other team is thinking Championship then they best be looking at the biggest most athletic player in the draft. The Hawks with Theo Ratliff would not stand a chance with the Lakers. Even with Theo I think the Hawks would do good to get a Heavyweight to play Center. Can you imagine the Hawks with a 300 pound Center and Theo at the Power Forward and SAR at the Small Forward --- to round it out DJ at the 2-guard and Terry at the point. If the Center is good offensively then the hawks would contend for the East and compete with the Lakers. THE PROBLEM IS I do not see any 300 LB agile centers not even coming out of high school, free agency or the CBA. In fact Diop last year was the closest in weight but his skills compared to Shaq early in his career is not even comparable. The Hawks need weight from DJ thru Theo --- we are a team with positions 1-4 wit out a true 5 even on the bench. It caused New Jersey dearly in the form of a sweep.

[chillzatl]

Shaq is a freak of nature. Just like Wilt, Russel, Hakeem and kareem, Shaq is one of a kind. Thinking that the only way we will have success is by "finding the next Shaq" is doing nothing but setting yourself up for a eternity of disappointments as a Hawks fan or a fan of any other NBA team. If there is ever another Shaq, you will see him coming before he ever hits the NBA and right now there just isn't one around. He is the most dominant big man to play the game since Wilt (IMO better) and when his career is done people will be looking for "the next Shaq" in the exact same way they are still looking for the next MJ.

That said, we do not need another Shaq to be a winner or to compete with the Lakers. A good, well rounded team will do the job. The Nets don't even have a Center of the quality of Theo. If they had a healthy Theo in his all-star year form, it would have been a different series. You aren't going to stop Shaq, period. But a healthy Theo is several classes above anything NJ had to throw out there.

If we can build a good all-around team we will be able to compete with anyone. Sacramento had the better team this year. But experience and championship poise tipped the scale in the Lakers favor.

[Guest]

I will agree Shaq is probably one of a kind --- however I do think that Sacremento had a little more than a well rounded team. What I think Sac had was Vlade who had the ability to make Shaq step away from the basket and play defense. Vlade also was not frightened to body-up with Shaq. He has just enough mass to disturb Shaq. Notice the last two teams to take LA to Seven games was Sac with Vlade and Portland with 300 LB Sabonis. This is a strong indicator that if you can get a big center with decent offensive skillz then your chances against LA increase tremendously. Yes a well rounded team helps --- but New Jersey is well rounded with 4 and 5 players in double figures a game --- and they got swept --- with all that said I don't think there are many Centers up and coming with the mass and agility of Shaq but there are several with the towering height -- maybe that is why Houston is going for the 7 foot 5er in Ming --- but will he have an effect on Shaq? hmmmmm

[chillzatl]

while it was effective, they lacked someone who can just take the ball and score with it. Kidd can do a lot, but a scorer he is not. If he had but one guy on that team that he could count on for a consistant 22+ per game it might have been a series worth watching. The outcome would have still been the same, but it would have been worth watching.

BUt back to shaq. Sabonis is the only center I think has come close to matching up with Shaq since he has developed into the player he is today (last 4-5 years). True, if you have a center who can hit a mid-range shot, you will do well against the lakers. Vlade is a cheapshot artist and nothing more. He stepped up for some big games early in the series. But once the refs stopped giving him the cheap stuff (last few games) he disappeared.

Again I agree that you need a competant center. But you don't need another shaq. Mainly because we aren't going to find one. If Theo proves to be durable enough after his new rehab program, I think he will be a good enough for this team when they get to a contender level. Shaq is going to start to deteriorate and things will even out before long.

[Admin]

During David Robinsons MVP season, 95 I think........Dream just abused DRob in the playoffs and then simply embarrassed Shaq in the Finals. I have never seen Shaq handled like a little beotch like he was in that series. I loved it.

[Guest]

Shaq almost never faces a solid center.The second best

center is Vlade Divac he has obviousally done the best

job againest Shaq.And as good as Vlade is he is no top

center.Shaq often gets to take the night off on defense

and only Vlade matches up with him.

Shaq is the best center in a weak era no doubt about it.

[Guest]

The best center in a weak era?? You're a fool if you believe that. The league has never been stacked with top quality centers, EVER. There never had been more than 1-2 really top quality centers in the league at a time. It's just how it is. To try to play down a one of a kind big man, and easily one of the top 3 centers of all time shows how much you know about the game. Comments like this make it obvious why so few people here and on the other boards you troll take anything you say seriously.

Shaq was not the player he is today when he faced Hakeem that year. Come to think of it, Hakeem was on a different level that year anyway.

Vlade doesn't "match up" with Shaq at all and never has. He plays him as well as anyone can, but he doesn't match up. He plays the refs and makes himself look good by trying to get cheap calls. He does this because he DOESN'T match up and he knows it. It's the only way he can compete against him.

Do you even have cable in that little redneck corner of Georgia you inhabit?

[Admin]

I was just watching, like 30 minutes ago, the show on ESPN where all the reporters chat and argue about this and that in sports..........well EVERY ONE of them agreed that the true centers have fallen off the face of the earth. Shaq is the only one left. There was a time 5-10 years ago when any one of Alonzo, Dream, DRob, Ewing, Dikembe (and probably more that I am forgetting) could have held Shaq down some and damn sure would have scored back on a highly defensive challenged Shaq. Put Shaq up against any of those guys, or against Russell, Chamberlain, Jabar and you would then see just how good Shaq is. I am not taking anything away from him because he is one of the greatest ever, but he is the only legit center in the NBA these days, but your statement that the league has never been stocked with top quality centers is way off the mark.

You are right though that it was a different Shaq back in 94-95 when he was getting abused. He was fully healthy and still very young and had a talented team then too. He is a better player now thats for sure, but part of the reason he faired so poorly then was that there were actually centers who werent afraid of him and could abuse him.

[chillzatl]

they didn't say that he league has never been stocked iwth good centers, it has. But not a lot at one time. In the 80's you had malone and Kareem. In the 90's you had Hakeem and Ewing and Robinson, that's it. Apart from Hakeem, shaq dominated every one of those guys too. That's not stocked by any means. That's 1-3 really quality centers every decade. Shaq just doesn't have a counterpart right now. It's just him, by himself.

Shaq would have held his own and then some against the best the game has ever seen. They might have scored on him, sure I do not dispute that. But they would not have stopped him. Not one of them. I would say that shaq would have done better back in the old days because:

1. Shaq is a HUGE athlete, he's not just a big lumbering oaf. Wilt dominated the game because he too was a HUGE athlete. Shaq is bigger and dare I say it, a better ball player.

2. They played the game rougher so shaq would have been able to be even more physical in the post.

I actually read an article on the basketballnews page today that seconded my thoughts exactly. I would put him clearly in the top 5 of all time right now and before his career is done he will be 1 or 2 without question. Size is size and talent is talent and shaq is as talented as any center to play the game and also just happens to be the biggest to play the game.

[chillzatl]

Shaq DID NOT get abused by any of the centers he played against early in his career. For his career he has done better against Hakeem that Hakeem did against him. Hakeem was just playing from another plane of existance in the finals that year. He destroyed the MVP and then continued on to shaq. Do not confuse the owning he put on Drob with what happened vs. shaq though. He did not destroy shaq like he did Robinson. Robinson got embarassed in every facet of the game. Shaq ran up against an equal player who had the better team.

[Admin]

Who are you talking about said that the league has never been stocked with top quality centers? Your post fell below mine so I am assuming you are replying to me, but I never said that the league has never been stocked with top quality centers, in fact I am arguing that it has at certain times. I even mentioned that damn sports show that I cant remember the name of that was on today that was talking about how the league used to have a variety of big time talent at center and has now seen all of them except Shaq disappear. All of the guys on the show agreed with that and I think thats easy to see. I also gave the example of how just 5-6 years ago there were several upper echelon big men

Alonzo, Dream, DRob, Ewing, Dikembe

Thats 5 right there that 5 years ago would have made a major difference for the Nets in this finals. Dikembe and Alonzo were great defensive players then and could have held Shaq down much moreso than what happened this year, just as they used to when Shaq was with the Magic plus Alonzo would have scored at will against Shaq. At the time Alonzo was a better center than Shaq was. In fact I would argue that he was up until this current title run by Shaq. Also, Dream did abuse Shaq in the finals that year. I dont know of a big man on this planet that I have ever seen in such a zone as Dream was then. Yes he did embarrass DRob a lot more, and in Robinsons MVP season no less, but he still embarrassed Shaq. Shaq says he still has thoughts about how badly he played against Dream and thats part of his motivation each time he gets to the finals now. Now I am not saying that Dream completely shut him down or that any center could do that to Shaq, but for Dream to average 33 PPG and 12 boards for per game in that series to me shows that he was able to do whatever he wanted to against Shaq including sweeping him out of the finals.

I do agree that Shaq could have help his own back in the day against the more physical centers. I dont think he would put up the stats he is now because there isnt a center in basketball that can even really slow him down now (And no Vlade cannot do that ARR). Its just like Russell said one time earlier this year when he and Wilt were interviewed about what they would do to Shaq. Russell said that he would make Shaq run the floor and play defense, which is what he doesnt have to do now, which would drastically take away from his offensive game. I really believe that Russell and Chamberlain both could have really done some serious damage to Shaq in his prime and without being injured like he is now. It would have been great to see. Hell Russell says he would like to play him now.

[chillzatl]

though I might have misworded that first line so it could have thrown you off. Shaq played against "upper echelon" big men early in his career and more than held his own. Ewing, Mourning, robinson, etc. He played against Drob, Ewing and Hakeem when they were in their primes and he was not yet in his and he was still able to do all that his stats implied and more, many times dominating those players. He has since improved quite a bit in my opinion. Early in his career I personally felt all he had was a dunker with little basketball skill and I really hated the guy. He has developed an arsenal of moves in the paint from his drop step to his turn around off the glass. Those are moves that he certainly lacked in his first few years. Just like Hakeem in his prime, he has about 6-7 different moves he can put on someone, He can pass, he can run the floor and he's a HUGE presence on D.

I have no clue how you could ever feel that Alonzo was better than Shaq. Alonzo held his own against him because he was a great player. You can't take anything away from mourning. But to say he was better at any point is crazy. It wasn't evident in the stats or in the win-loss column. I don't think you could find any team that would take mourning over Shaq at any point in their careers. But I digress.

All i'm saying is that to try and take something away from Shaq because the league is not CURRENTLY full of other comparable big men is ridiculous. He played against great big men early in his career and more than held his own. His talent and skill are as evident as his size and they would have transitioned into any era just as dominant, if not moreso, as they are today.

[ATLien_]

Chilz I actually think Alonzo mathches up well agaisn't Shaq. Alonzo shoots out to 20 feet well and he is much quicker than shaq, and he is also a good strong defensive player. I actually think he should give shaq fits because his shooting and quickness will hurt shaq.

Im not saying Zo is better than shaq I just think his strenghts match up well agaisnt shaq. So if I had to play shaq I would probably want Zo.

[Guest]

What do you call Ewing/Hakeem/David Robinson/Mutombo/Alonzo

Mourning you jackass?

Is Todd MaCollach/Jerome James good centers needle d*ck....All

That lardass Shaq does is beat scrubs player which is what 99%

of NBA players today are.

I know plenty about todays weak NBA and weak players of this

sorry era that is a joke to the common fans.Like that Celtics vs.

Pistions 64-62 game.I laughed my a** off at how talentess todays

NBA has become.

Why don't you come here and I will shove a basketballin a**.I'll

even give you my address you little d*ck bastard.

[Admin]

We dont need to have these kinds of posts on here where you guys are verbally attacking eachother and threatining eachother. If you want to email eachother through your regular email then fine, but keep this kinda stuff off of here.

[Guest]

Why don't you also tell who you are...or are you too big of a

chicken [censored] to do that.It's just like a chicken [censored] not to fill

out a profile or anything...you must feel like a pretty tough

little boy.

What center has Shaq beaten to deserve to be called a top

3?All of todays teams are a big pile of [censored].WOW!He beat the

Nets!Boy they sure are a gream team...Don't even have a

good scorer,but they are a good team...eh?

[Guest]

I don't apoligize for saying anything.He had no reason to spill trash

like that and not even leave his name.I image he is this little d*ck

white dude that talks ebonics.lol

Also when he said Shaq isn't the same as he was then...This dude

forgot to remember than the NBA is not the same either.The league

actually lacks good players now.

[Admin]

Do not write messages on this messageboard with personal attacks against someone else again. The same goes for anyone. Its one thing to disagree with someone and for arguements to become heated with people, and thats fine because thats what these messageboards are for, but for them to get personal like this is going to far. If you decide to keep posting these messages, your posts will be deleted. If he personally attacks you then let Chillz or Kudzu or Me know and we will fix that problem but you dont need to keep these useless threads going like this. Please take notice that any further posts like this will be deleted.

[Guest]

I mean Shaq is a great player,but I just laugh when people try

and put ANY of todays players as all time greats.Let's face

it,teams like NJ/Boston and the Spurs should get clobbered.

It's not Shaq really that I have the problem with...It is the

lack of talent in todays NBA.One player teams shouldn't be

able to win 50+ basketball games... I don't care what kind of

role players you have.

Shaq destroys the sorry players today and he is all of a sudden

the best center ever?What center has he beat to deserve that

crown?He hasn't even beaten a great center in of the title runs.

Basketballin fan is a typical todays fan that believes the league

is actually anything more than a joke with limited talent level.

One more thing,atleast I don't live in downtown where I have

a EXTREMELY high risk of getting shot or ran over and I surely

don't have to see naked men walking around.Thank god.