TexasPete

My goal is now to get rid of Woodson before he stays another 3 seasons and ruins any potential this team may have. This is simply horrible offensive basketball lead by a coach who is routinely overmatched. Nate McMillan is another example of a coach who gets it all from his players. McMillan is everything Woodson is not, and his in game coaching just kills Woodson. If these jerk-off owners give Woody an extension we are all screwed as fans. BK sucks as well. But lets get rid of one and then we will work on BK. BK still has no idea how to fix the PG mess. And he certainly is in no hurry to make any deals that may actually help this team.

Actually, PG is a huge problem. Real nice analysis there... and that makes 4,768 Marvin trades and counting.

Quote: Nobody should be surprised with our hideous performance last night. Our team gets its identity from its coach, and that coach is clueless. The good thing is that overall throughout all the losing he has kept the team motivated and hustling, never feeling sorry for themselves and never giving up. On the other hand, his whole MO is for us to play hard on defense, and the offense will take care of itself. And that's exactly what it looks like out there. We have nothing that even resembles an organized offense. We hope to win games by having more hustle, talent, and effort than the other team. And a lot of times, it actually is enough because we have a lot of talent here and we REALLY want to make the postseason after all those years. A lot of times we grind our way back into a game when another team thought they already had the win. But when it's not enough, we have no plan B. When we play a smart team, they slice us up. Even when we were winning games, I didn't think we looked that great. We just play so dumb. And not just on offense. The other day we played zone against the Cavs for way too long and let them light us up. Against the Pacers we doubled JO over and over even when the rest of the team was on fire, shooting over 50% from behind the arc. But the real problem is the offense. Problem #1 is that I don't recall us setting a screen away from the ball in the entire Woodson era. I mean seriously. JJ should be starting near the baseline, running behind a screen or two, and catching the ball for an open shot. That should be a big part of our offense. I think that as he starts to light teams up they would have to respond with the player defending the screener popping out to guard JJ. At that point the player setting the screen (Horford, Smith...) can roll to the basket and the PG can hit him instead of JJ if he's open. This is not complicated. It's basketball 101 and we never even attempt it. Hell we can start easier than that with a simple pick and roll, which we hardly ever do. The only 2 guys we have who know how to set a screen are Lorenzen and Shelden (Horford is learning to not move), and we don't know how to run (or defend) the pick and roll at all. For starters teach all our guys how to set a pick. Has Smith ever set one? Smith should also be taking picks (or just cutting hard on his own) when he doesn't have the ball to get easy alley oops like Kenyon Martin did all the time a year or 2 ago in Denver. They should find ways to benefit from Childress's hard cuts along the baseline, as he never gets rewarded with the ball other than on putbacks. The coach should determine where and how the players should play, not let them do whatever they want. Smith should be put in the post to develop more post moves. We have FINALLY seen him start to go to this recently and get many easy points (he was abusing murphy last night). He should have been put in the post 2 years ago for him to learn how to get it done against NBA competition. Marvin should be pushed to doing more than just hitting open shots or going 1 on 1. Set some picks for him when he has the ball as he has a deadly J and can attack the rim. Make the defenders pick their poison. Instead of any of this what is our offense? Screw around for the first 12 seconds so we really only have 12 seconds to get it done. Make a couple of passes and or dribbles around the perimeter outside the 3 point line, maybe pass it inside. If the guy inside doesn't like his look, pass it back out. Whoever happens to have the ball with 3-4 seconds left has to shoot a jumper or attack the rim. It's a total joke, and we don't have the PG who can make this a decent offense in spite of Woodson. And this is not even bringing up his substitution patterns, taking out hot guys for cold ones, not calling appropriate timeouts, etc... We have the talent to be a middle of the pack playoff team in the East THIS YEAR. But it's not going to happen with our offense in this shape. We might be able to grind our way into the playoffs, and then a legit coaching staff will come up with a good strategy to destroy us. The San Antonio's and Detroit's don't win just because of their defense. They have great defense and an incredibly efficient offense. If Woodson is going to completely ignore the offense, hire an offensive coordinator like NFL teams do, and let him do it. This is ridiculous. Warning: Discussion of our W-L record relative to Woody's performance is forbidden Great post, I agree with pretty much all of it. Thats why when people are getting pumped up about our successful little surges I keep my feelings in check. If we do make the playoffs we will have Woodson sign a 3 year extension and that will kill off the future. Or at least we will not reach the potential of the players. Woodson's "offense" is not even middle school quality. Thats why as much as I would love to finally do something with this team, a part of me just wants to do what is necessary to get rid of this albatross of a head coach.

Quote: Next season Marvin will be better than Lebron. WTF? Marvin IS better than LeBron.

I hope that Diesels veiled Marvin hatred counts. Like when he advocates a trade for a real center so that Smoove can move to his rightful SF position and Horford can slide to PF. He has a number of posts in a day that are all designed to get rid of Marvin even if he doesn't say it outright. He can play the anti-Marvin card from 10 different angles.

What a stupid trade. Yeah, lets cripple ourselves and take someone elses salary headache. Nice work. This is another Marvin thread in disguise. He wants to bring in a big stiff to play center, move horford to PF, and move Smoove over to SF. What a shock.

Yeah, I see what DJ's saying. You know, Marvin could have said, naw, since the Hawks made a mistake taking me I'm going to quit and give my check back. That happens all the time when the wrong pick is made, right? I bet Marvin pulled BK aside before the draft and said look BK, if you don't take me I'm gonna come to Atlanta and kick your ass. BK may have felt he had no choice. Marvin needs to man up and take some of the blame for BK picking him.

Quote: You and the rest of those with agendas need to look at the reality. DrR, I believe he's saying that you have an agenda...but we all know he doesn't. LMAO... Naw, he doesn't have an agenda. Impossible.

His Marvin crap is so damn old. Every day he pullutes Hawksquawk with a different Marvin thread and he always plays it from a different angle. He may even start a Smoove or Hoford thread but then work it into an anti-Marvin deal. He thinks he's being subtle. His entire existence here is built completely around anti-Marvin and he somehow thinks he's fooling people.

Quote: Marvin prolly won't be on there next year either. Smoove is definitely an impact player that gets the attention on the decision makers in the NBA. Marvin gets an "In other news"... Actually only an imbecile believes his name won't be there next year. ZaZa is there but Marvin wont be there? Man, the stupidity gets thicker here every day.

Quote: Quote: Add in the fact that BK the genius didn't even work out Roy, nor even consider him, and its just a ludicrous situation. Honest question, just looking for an honest answer, TPete... and from you, I know I can expect that...Rewind and imagine that BK drafts Roy.In light of his position on the depth chart, then, how many minutes per game do you think he gets?Then, while it's a given that SWill didn't set the world on fire, who gets his minutes instead?Neither of those are trap questions, but just looking to satisfy my curiosity about your perspective. Shelden was both hurt and in the doghouse until garbage time last year so his "minutes" were mainly on the bench until late in the year.Roy would have played at PG most of the year...the same way that Acie plays it now...except 10X better than Acie. Roy plays well with the ball in his hands both setting up others and scoring himself. The fact that we were too arrogant to even bring him in is absurd.The only question that I cannot answer is would Roy have made us better to the point that we lost ping pong balls...and the 3rd pick. Obviously, we will never know.But BK makes the wrong pick more than the weatherman. But, like the weatherman he keeps his job.

Quote: Quote: Shelden was selected b/c Shelden offered a different skill set... a role that no current-roster Hawk could fulfill at that time... And one that he couldn't fill either given the fact that his standing reach is 4" shorter than our small forward.You talk about BK's plan to build a "long, athletic team" but when BK reaches in the draft to take a player which is the exact antithesis of his vision (not long but very short and unathletic) you still applaud it like an obedient lap dog. It was very predictable that Shelden wouldn't live up to what BK envisioned. In fact it was so obvious that the pick was boo'd at Phillips, trashed on this board and mocked in the press. The Shelden pick was the worst thing BK has ever done in the draft because we blew the 5th pick completely. Chill and Marvin were the wrong choices but they still are solid NBA players, and Marvin is still developing.I will never get the Shelden pick as long as I live. EVERYBODY saw this coming. He has a skillset that is totally underwhelming and it's also not NBA quality. Add in the fact that BK the genius didn't even work out Roy, nor even consider him, and its just a ludicrous situation.

Quote: I think the real question is are you content with Marvin as he is or would you like to see him play better?? I want to see Marvin progress to the place where he becomes a threat. Teams are afraid of Marv just as much as they are afraid of JJ. Our team needs that. However, right now, Marvin's just a consistent third option shooter. He's like Jim Paxson.... when we need Scottie Pippen... or Toni Kukoc. So now Marvin is reduced to Jim Paxson. The comedy on this site from certain people is priceless. And Marvin isn't just an ordinary third option according to the wise basketball sage with 23,000 posts, he's a third option SHOOTER...even a lower form of basketball life than your regular run of the mill third option. But, on the other hand, the wise basketball sage believes that Chill is full of all sorts of amazing intangibles that never show in the box score. Brilliant. It took 23,000 posts on this site to get to that level of analysis. I just hope that if I can ever last long enough to reach 23,000 posts that I have more sense than what was posted in the above quote. The whole agenda has moved well beyond absurd.

Quote: My guess is if Marvin goes to the allstar game three times he will still not give up on dishing him. Give me a break. Your right. And Childress will always be better in his lying eyes.

Quote: Quote: Acie was a one year wonder at A&M who really came on his last year. But, he has never been a true PG. When I watch him play I see a kid who wants to be a true PG, a player who is doing what he thinks a PG should do.. But, he isn't a naturally gifted passer. He's OK. But, when you get a true PG you know it because a true PG has the natural passing instincts to get the ball where it needs to go. Maybe with more experience and more confidence his PG skills will grow. His offense is also suspect as he shoots a low percentage from the field. Right now I don't see much with him but I hope he grows to a point that he can be the answer. At the moment we STILL have PG holes and we STILL haven't positively identified our PG of the future. Because BK obviously is clueless in the PG business I think we should trade for our guy. That way we already know what we are getting. Jarrett Jack is playing well in PTL right now and is likely not available, but if we had traded the 11th pick for Jack we would be well ahead of the game at this point. How many true point guards are there in the league???? And think about some of the top ones today and what they did the first year or two in the league. Billups bounces around, Kidd paid his dues. I'm not saying he's going to be one of them, but that the new pg's are hybrids and I think he fits that mold. It's crazy to pass judgement on him given his injuries and the lack of playing time he's had. The best is still in front of him. I'm not passing complete judgement on him because he's a rookie. I'm just saying that I believe a trade for Jack would have been better for the team. Law was supposed to be the most ready and frankly doesn't look all that ready. In my view I don't see the PG riddle solved at this point. We have an aging vet who has played out of his mind lately but I will be shocked if that continues. I hope AJ keeps it going but over the rest of the long season I have my doubts. Acie needs to step up his game within the next 20 games because we will need him. Lue is a joke and a disaster with the basketball in his hands and on defense. Lue is a trash scoring PG who you need when you suck...some nights he gets hot and keeps you in the game. Lue is not a PG for a decent team. Bottom line: A Jarrett Jack running with our 1st team would have been a better situation than what we have today. Plus, his defense is better than AJ's and Acie's. Could Acie turn it around? Possibly, and I hope so.

He never does well against the facts but he has an uncanny ability to come back with more BS. He just gets abused time after time and yet... He comes back for more.

Quote: Reread what I said. I said Chillz do more than Marvin. And he does. Chillz plays Sf and Sg and on occassion Point Forward... Marvin does not. Chillz is an expert at Moving without the ball. Marvin Doesn't . Chillz is a very good FT shooter... Marvin is good but not top 3 in the league good like Chillz. Chillz is just as good as Marvin on the break.... in fact, Chillz can be more than just a finisher, he can be a passer. Chillz has better shooting accuracy than Marvin. Hate his release... it still goes in. Chillz can defend both Sf and Sgs and on occassions some PGs. Chillz is a better rebounder! Watch him play. You're reaching for straws PB... Man, it's just real hard to take you seriously anymore with this nonsense. And it's just total manufactured 100% BS. Nobody buys what your selling...

It's official: The Falcons pick 3rd in the draft.

No way the Grizz do a deal like that one. And Lowry is better than Law and AJ. I think Lowry is unlikely to be going anywhere because this will be Damons last year in Memphis and they need Lowry. They will keep two good PGs in Conley and Lowry just like the Raptors.

I would include Marvin in a trade for Gasol but not Smith. A deal that includes Shelden or Z, Marvin, and Lue would be very appealing but my guess is that the Grizz want Smoove. I would hold tight because the Grizz ship is sinking fast and at some point they need to move Gasol. I know that Chicago will certainly make a run at Gasol again and you have to wonder if their package is better than ours. With the awful year Hinrich is having I'm not sure that he is still untouchable. The Grizz need a SG and we don't have one. Gasol is someone I would like to have but he still doesn't answer the need for a defensive presence on the inside. He would be a great low post option and would help the offense but certainly not the defense.

Acie was a one year wonder at A&M who really came on his last year. But, he has never been a true PG. When I watch him play I see a kid who wants to be a true PG, a player who is doing what he thinks a PG should do.. But, he isn't a naturally gifted passer. He's OK. But, when you get a true PG you know it because a true PG has the natural passing instincts to get the ball where it needs to go. Maybe with more experience and more confidence his PG skills will grow. His offense is also suspect as he shoots a low percentage from the field. Right now I don't see much with him but I hope he grows to a point that he can be the answer. At the moment we STILL have PG holes and we STILL haven't positively identified our PG of the future. Because BK obviously is clueless in the PG business I think we should trade for our guy. That way we already know what we are getting. Jarrett Jack is playing well in PTL right now and is likely not available, but if we had traded the 11th pick for Jack we would be well ahead of the game at this point.

If we had taken CP3 or Roy it is highly probable that we don't have Horford. The whole process is dynamic so if we get better a little earlier then it changes who we get later. The irony is that because BK didn't just blow the picks altogether without ever getting the right one, we were able to get good pieces while staying lousy. Now, we have pieces getting better through experience even though they weren't the right choices. We throw in a great luck situation in last years draft and we now have a decent team. BK is a lousy GM if you want to make the best choice. But, he lucked up in the Horford situation. With even Law he blew it in my view. But with Horford I beleive he will be a home run and franchise cornerstone. Law was drafted because he was most ready and he just doesn't look that great. I think he will be an OK player, not a total bust and hardly great. He isn't a great natural PG and he needs some time to develop even though he's a 4-year player in college. Stuckey will prove that he was the best player for us while Law will not ever be nearly the PG we have all hope for.

Trade rosters with Portland? Hot, lay off the booze, drugs, or combo of the two. First, without Oden we have the better roster. Period. They have some nice pieces but the Hawks also have some great young assets. First, what you need to understand is that PTL is on a huge roll and that is about to end. It's almost midnight and PTL is about to turn into a pumpkin. PTL will likely not make the playoffs because they really aren't that good. With Oden who knows? But their roster right now is worse than what we have and a blind man can see it. Now, if we bring coaches into the equation you have a big difference. Nate McMillan runs rings around Mike Woodson. If our roster had the benefit of Nate McMillan? The only advantage PTL has on the Hawks is their coach. And thats big. But their roster is certainly not better than ours without Oden. Hot, for the life of me I can't figure out why you spend so much time posting on a site for a team that you hate. And you aren't all that astute when it comes to your "analysis" either. If you think Horford is a role player or may be one in the future, then you just formed a club of one...in the country. Take off your sh!t filled glasses just once. Your negativity is just a drain, and so are your opinions.

Quote: Quote: The problem with this conversation Ex is that you don't get to see many Hawks games. Unless they play the Wiz, you're in the dark... Totally... so you live on the boxscores, ESPN highlights, and in the chatroom trying to piece together a game You are a blithering idiot. You have been trying to two years to say i dont watch the games and you look just as dumb now as you always have. The key difference is that i don't have your rose colored glasses regarding Childress or the hate you have for Marvin. Show me where you have EVER criticized Childress after a bad game. Show me how you dogged him after he made one of his several bone headed plays late in games. Never happened. You remember the game two years ago when we tied the game late in the last 15 seconds and then Chill intentionally fouled thinking we were still behind? I haven't even seen a middle school player make the mistake of thinking your behind when you've just tied a game. Of course, we lost that game on the subsequent free throws. Can you imagine the wrath if Marvin had done something that stupid? The simple fact is that Chill has been known as a bit of a brain fart artist. When Chill scores 6 points in 35 minutes Diesel assumes he's doing intangible things that don't show up in the box score. When Marvin scores 6 points (which hasn't happened all year) he assumes that Marvin is doing his disappearing act. Nobody wins debating Diesel about Marvin. His ignorance on the subject knows no limit.

For the most part people are pretty realistic about Marvin. I see nobody hyping him or going crazy. The only thing I ever saw was one guy that is just relentless with the Marvin bashing. He ripped and proposed 3 Marvin trades a day for two solid years. The funny thing is that the one poster continually is getting made to look more ridiculous with every passing week. And that will only get worse.