mudderfudder77

Quote: How much would it take to get Hinrich? Could we trade Childress for him straight up? How about Marvin straight up? Bibby/Childress for Hinrich/Noah? Not even close. The Bulls are very high on Noah.

Quote: I personally think Bulls will chose Rose, the hometown player. Beasley is the best player in the draft but i just have a feeling they will draft D. Rose I have to agree. With the character concerns, and concerns about how tall he actually is, I don't see the Bulls taking Beasley. A PG, like Rose, who can get into the lane at will, will make Thomas and Noah much better. And the Bulls appear very high on Gooden fwiw. I just think Rose is the best player in this draft.

Just a little info - Hinrich is most definitely not a slow it down PG, thats actually a weakness. He tends to dribble the air out of the ball in the half-court. Its also not a given that we would look to trade Hinrich if we draft Rose - Hinrich/Rose backcourt would be excellent defensively, and Hinrich can play SG pretty well. Gordon might be the one who walks away. Hinrichs contract is very reasonable - as it decreases every year, he got most of his money upfront. Rose looks very much like a Paxson type pick. Quality player and person who is a winner and went deep into the tournament. The Bulls like Gooden quite a bit, and a PG like Rose who can get into the lane will make Thomas and Noah 10x better. I think Beasley has too many character issues, and if he measures out at 6'7" theres no way he is the #1 pick.

Whatever you say.

Joke Noah has had a pretty good rookie season.

Quote: Ben Wallace has not been the player that he was with the Pistons. However, I can't see the trade for Larry 'I am always injured' Hughes. Their contracts are the same length and they are very close in dollar amount. So there is no advantage there. Was the reason for trade to get their hands on Gooden. I can't see that. He is an alright player but the most amazing thing about him and his game is his beard. Hughes is decent but he is not the player he was expected to be when he signed his contract with Cleveland. I guess this also spells the end of Ben Gordon in Chi Town too. With Hinrich and Hughes with large contracts and the improvement of Thabo Sefolosha there is no more room for Ben. He is overrated and one demensional anyway. I just think Chicago has taken a step back with this trade. If they were going to trade Wallace they could have gotten more in my opinion. Really? Like what? Paxson had been trying to trade Ben for over a month - I don't think teams were lining up to pay 29 million for 5pts & 9rebs. It was a garbage for garbage trade. The Bulls sent a vastly overpaid piece of garbage and Joe Smith for Clevelands vastly overpaid piece of garbage and Drew Gooden. Paxson said at his press conference that one of the reasons the trade was made was to clear time for the young bigs (Thomas, Noah, and Gray). Ben wasn't going to be happy playing 20 minutes per game, and he certainly wasn't going to be thrilled that a rookie was taking his minutes. Its too bad Joe Smith had to go, he's had a great season, but for the Bulls Gooden is going to prove more valuable - he can at least score in the post occasionally. Gordon has already threatened to sign the QO and leave as a FA. He turned down 5 for 50 million, and while I might disagree that he is over-rated - he is certainly not worth what he thinks he is worth. Hughes wasn't gotten because the Bulls are a fan of his, he was gotten because in order to dump Ben they were going to have to take on a bad salary. Hughes just happens to have a bad salary at a position the Bulls might want to have some depth and some leverage in the Gordon negotiations. This wasn't a trade to suddenly turn the Bulls into contenders, it was a trade to get rid of a mistake - and to allow some young players to develop.

He did average 8.5 assists playing in Vancouver. I think the only real concern with Bibby is whether or not he can get 100% healthy again. He hasn't missed any significant time in several seasons, but he always seems to be playing dinged.

fail.

Durant will win because everyone is impressed with 20ppg, even if it is an empty stat in Durants case. My guy Noah, and Horfords running mate at Florida is doing alright. Now that Old Man Ben is gone, Noah is finally going to get some minutes. Hopefully it will be a fight to the playoffs between our teams. Noah is doing alright for himself, but he doesn't ooze potential like your guy Horford

I'll go ahead and address this point by point... Quote: Paxson signed Wallace in the first place. Yes, it was a mistake. Now he is trying to rectify that mistake. Wheres the issue? Quote: Now they can pay Hughes + Badden = $20M next year instead. Or they could continue paying Wallace and Smith 21million for next season. The Bulls saved approx 3 million by doing this trade, and Larry's contract doesn't run longer than Ben's. Whats your point? Quote: Oh and they lost a productive and expiring contract player in Joe Smith. Drew Gooden is just as productive, and just as expiring as Joe Smith - what's your point? I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. Quote: SO is Skiles coming back now? Considering he quit on the team, why would they want him back?

Oh, and he opened up playing time for Noah - who had proven himself a better player than Ben when given minutes - and Tyrus Thomas.

Quote: This seems like a trade just to appease Lebron temporarily. Cavs still don't have a real PG. What is Paxson doing btw? Getting rid of a mistake. Getting younger. Saving a few million. Dumping a cancer. What do you expect Ben W to net them? Its essentially a garbage for garbage trade. We don't like our garbage, we think their garbage smells better.

Quote: There, I said it. I see the Mike Bibby high hasn't quite worn off yet.

Quote: As I just wrote in another thread - as a Chicago fan I would do the Gordon/Childress trade in a nano-second. Good trade for both teams - but is Atlanta willing to pony up the dollars to keep Gordon? He already turned down 5/50million, how much does he think he is worth. It doesn't matter what he THINKS he is worth. It only matters what the market thinks. Latrell Sprewell turned down a deal he should have taken too bC he THOUGHT he was worth more. The market spoke and he saw he made a poor and greedy decision. Now his house is in foreclosure and his yacht is being auctioned. The market will speak to Ben Gordon too. He will be lucky to get a deal equal to what he turned down before the season....especially with the laundry list of other available free agents. I can see a champioship level team like Phoneix, San Antonio, or Dallas chasing Chills in the off season before Gordon. Gordon just happens to plug the hole that is sinking the Hawks ship (perimeter scoring) while Chills plugs Chicago's hole with adding size & defense to the backcourt. (Hinrich, Duhon, & Gordon are just too small a backcourt trio). It matters if he decides to take the qualifying and become Unrestricted. His team will have no opportunity to match, and he can go wherever the hell he likes. This is the same season that many teams are attempting to free up cap space for the Wades and Lebrons of the world. It's entirely possible one of those teams might go stupid and decide that if they can't get a marquee FA, that they should use their money to vastly overpay Gordon. Gordon has already told certain members of the media that he is willing to play on the QO - if you were GM are you willing to take that risk?

Quote: Do you think that Gordon felt he was being underpaid or that he wanted out of Chicago more? All the papers have said that he wanted considerably more than the 5 for 50 that Chicago offered him. He has said that if he can't find a contract he likes this off-season he is willing to wait it out on a qualifying offer.

Quote: Quote: Simple fact is Gordon wants to much money in the offseason. It doesn't matter what he wants it only matters what the market thinks he is worth. Ben Gordon does not make up his contract...the market is not going to pay max money for a combo guard / 6th man. We have the right match any one offer and I bet he gets offers for just a little more then what Chills will get or maybe even equal offers to Chills. After all, they are both best used as 6th men and not starters. Gordon has given Chicago every indication that if he doesn't get any offers he likes he will sign the qualifying offer and play out the year to be an Unrestricted Free Agent (unlike what Varejo was willing to do). If Gordon was willing to play for 50 million, he'd already be signed to a long term deal in Chicago. The fact that he wants considerably more than 50 million is why Chicago is trying to trade him. I would love to get Childress for Gordon - I think it would be a good trade for both teams. FWIW - Chicago and New Orleans had agreed in principle to a trade that would have sent Gordon to NO for Julian Wright, Rasual Butler, and NO's #1 pick. The trade was scrapped when Chicago came in at the last moment and asked for Hilton Armstrong in addition to Wright and the pick. I'd take a Childress trade over the above in a second.

Quote: Based on recent rumors of players being available and recent discussions here about those players, here are 3 deals that I think could help us out big time. Deal #1 Atlanta trades: Zaza, Shelden, and Lue New York trades: Curry and Mardy Collins Deal #2 Atlanta trades: Childress and AJ Chicago trades: Gordon and Adreian Griffin Deal #3 Atlanta trades: Speedy and Salim Charlotte trades: Carroll, Othella Harrington, and Jermareo Davidson The Hawks new lineup: Gordon/Acie/Mario JJ/Carroll/Collins Smoove/Marvin/Griffin Horford/Harrington/Davidson Curry/Lo/Solo Thoughts? As I just wrote in another thread - as a Chicago fan I would do the Gordon/Childress trade in a nano-second. Good trade for both teams - but is Atlanta willing to pony up the dollars to keep Gordon? He already turned down 5/50million, how much does he think he is worth.

By now my opinion of Curry has been stated ad nauseum - so there is no reason for me to go over that again. Quote: I would consider including Chillz in the deal instead of a 2010 lottery protected first but I would prefer to try to deal Chillz to CHI for Gordon. CHI seems to think that a Hinrich/Gordon backcourt is too small so perhaps they would be willing to consider such a deal rather than pay Gordon $50M to come off the bench next year. Chillz will likely be cheaper to sign in the offseason and he can start alongside Hinrich and Deng. I think the deal makes perfect sense for both teams as both Gordon and Chillz are starting caliber players who can't crack the starting lineup due to the makeups of their respective teams. Their efficiency ratings and PERs are very close as well. If those deals get done, we could line up: Curry/Zaza Horford/Shelden Smoove/Marvin JJ/West Gordon/Law I think with the right coach (Woody still needs to go) that is a playoff team this year and possible title contender in 2-3 years. If Gordon was willing to play for 50 million, he'd already be signed to a long term deal in Chicago. The fact that he wants considerably more than 50 million is why Chicago is trying to trade him. I would love to get Childress for Gordon - I think it would be a good trade for both teams. FWIW - Chicago and New Orleans had agreed in principle to a trade that would have sent Gordon to NO for Julian Wright, Rasual Butler, and NO's #1 pick. The trade was scrapped when Chicago came in at the last moment and asked for Hilton Armstrong in addition to Wright and the pick. I'd take a Childress trade over the above in a second.

Quote: I have seen Gordon "shake and bake" people out of their shoes with his ball handling. When comparing Gordons ball handling to Chills it is a major strength. Guess we just have very different opinions of what good ball handling is. I've seen him fall down 4 or 5 times a game while dribbling the ball - highlights do not accurately represent skills. There is a reason that teams have begun doubling him just past the halfcourt line - he can't handle the pressure and will inevitably turn it over or make a risky pass.

Quote: Simple fact is Gordon wants to much money in the offseason. Also Gordon doesn't play d...that is the reason he keeps losing his starting spot in Chicago. Its really not. He plays decent defense so long as he only has to guard PG's. The reason Gordon keeps losing his spot is that he starts off every season in a terrible shooting slump (he averaged 17ppg on 37% shooting in October). Inevitably he gets sent to the bench and his shooting comes around. Since moving to the bench this season - he is averaging 21ppg on 45%fg and 45%3pt. I agree that he wants too much money - he already turned down 5yrs 50 million. its not going to get much better than that for him.

Quote: Gordon's strengths are shooting, scoring, and ball handling. His weaknesses are defense and rebounding. Small point of fact - ball handling is not a strength. He's not a liability, but it certainly isn't a strength. Seeing as I have my doubts that Gordon will resign with Chicago - I am down with a Gordon for Childress trade.

Every player in the league who has early/full bird rights at the end of their 1 yr deal has a trade veto. If George (or any player) is traded in the year of their bird rights - they lose them. Meaning George would not be able to re-sign or sign&trade without salary cap restrictions. This isn't exclusive to George - there are players all across the league with the same veto power (Pietrus in GS is another I can think of) Larry Coons FAQ Quote: 80. When can a team trade a free agent it signs? Do they have to keep him forever? Generally, a player cannot be traded until three months after signing a contract or December 15th of that season, whichever is later. This does not apply to draft picks, who can be traded 30 days after signing their contract. In addition, if the player is playing under a one-year contract and will have Larry Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the contract, he can't be traded without his consent. If consent is granted and the player is traded, then he loses his Larry Bird or Early Bird rights, and enters free agency as a Non-Bird free agent. For example, Seattle signed Vladimir Radmanovic to a one-year qualifying offer on September 21, 2005. Therefore, Radmanovic could not be traded at all until December 21, 2005. After December 21, 2005, he could only be traded if he consented to the trade (he did consent and was traded to the Clippers). He became a Non-Bird free agent with the Clippers in the summer of 2006 (and signed instead with the Lakers).

Quote: Quote: How do you get over the fact that Curry's teams have averaged fewer points with him on the floor every season of his career? I can't explain that. Correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation. I probably could also prove that the Knicks give up more points when they drink Powerade instead of Gatorade or that the Hawks score more points when Jermaine Dupri is in the audience. The facts have to be seen in their context. Look who eddy has played with in his short career Ben Gordon Marbury Q Zach Randolph Franchise None of which are exactly team oriented players. All I know is that dude is 6'11 285 25 years old, athletic, offensive post player. He isn't a finished product and shouldn't be since I don't think he has been in a system which takes advantage of what he does well. He is flawed but he isn't exactly Kwame Brown. I don't think you understand the stat, your analogy confirms it. There is 7 years of data to pull from, and in every season Curry played his team has been better offensively and defensively with him on the bench. Explain that. It doesn't matter who Curry's teammates are - if he is indeed a quality player - why do the teams he is on perform better without him?

Quote: How do you get over the fact that Curry's teams have averaged fewer points with him on the floor every season of his career? I can't explain that. Don't forget that his opponents average more points with Curry on the floor as well...

Nooooooooooooooo! I want the Bulls to get either Childress or Lowry. Trade with us!