mudderfudder77

Quote: Send them Shelden and call it a day. They'll need a "big" if they somehow move Wallace. No, they won't. They already have Noah and Gray - and part of the reason they are trying to move Wallace is to open up time for Tyrus, Noah, and gray. The last thing they need/want is another big fighting for minutes.

Quote: Two monsters who make some money. Can't we package Marvin + trash + picks and then use a 3-man Big rotation of Horford/James/Curry for PF/C? Christ - you want Curry and James? Are you a sadist or a masochist? And you want to give up Marvin in the process? Now I know you're high.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Yeah, I heard about that last night. Paxson really messed up that team. Imagine if they still had Chandler how good they would be right now. Yeah - taking them to the playoffs three straight years (after 6 years of embarrassing play) and having them picked as Eastern Conference contenders at the beginning of this year - what was he thinking? Well, if Chandler had played anything like he played his last year in Chicago - probably not very good. Chandler had given up on Chicago - he wasn't going to go to the next level there. Oh, and lets not forget that Chris Paul isn't playing in Chicago - I think he might have a little something to do with Tysons offensive improvements. But you can't ignore the really bad choice in signing Ben and then the subsequent poor play this year. I will defer to your insights on why the Bulls are playing so poorly this year, but from the outside it looks like Paxson made some very bad moves over the past couple of years. This isn't to say Paxson is in the BK realm of goofy moves by any means, by the by. In hindsight the Big Ben signing was terrible, but at the time it was the best option. Chandler had just come off the worst season of his career and had played historically bad in the playoffs - all of this after being rewarded with a new contract. The Bulls had the caproom, and couldn't roll it over to the next offseason because of the Hinrich extension and Nocioni RFA. They went and signed the best FA on the market at a position of need. The Bulls frontcourt was absolutely atrocious, and it was thought that Ben could stabilize it. Because of The owners edict on salary, Paxson was forced to trade Chandler after signing Ben. Chandler had been given 5 years in Chicago and aside from one good season had been a pretty big disappointment. I actually like Chandler, he seems like a good kid, but he was done in Chicago. Whehther it was the pressure of being traded for Brand or the new contract - who knows. The trade did light a fire under him though and he did things he never did in Chicago (like hire a trainer and a nutritionist) In retrospect the Big Ben signing was obviously a mistake, but to Pax's credit he only signed him to a 4 year deal that also declines each year. Big Ben's contract expires the same season that Lebron, Wade, and the rest of the big FA's become available. Its doubtful we sign them, but it is possible that Bens contract becomes a valuable expiring - like Kwame was this season. Why are the Bulls playing so bad this season? There are a multitude of reasons, some of which include injuries (to Deng, Gordon, and Hinrich) Big Bens suckitude, coaching, and two players response to not signing a new contract (Deng and Gordon). Skiles had given up on the team, and in his place Pax hired an assistant as the interim. This assistant has shown himself to be quite possibly the stupidest coach in the history of the NBA. His substitutions are maddening and predictable. He plays the veterans until their legs fall off - even when the younger players behind them have proven themselves to be better. Deng and Gordon have been out for extended periods, and Hinrich has been missing games of late. These three guys account for almost 55 points a game. Big Ben sucks, and even though Noah has proven to be a better player Ben is still playing 35+ minutes a game. In general it seems like everything that could go wrong has gone wrong. So what your saying is the new interim coach is exactly like Woodson! We know your pain! Sadly I think he might actually be worse - although I think most of you would disagree.

Quote: We said the same thing about Diaw and JT and we'd die to have both back in some capacity (maybe not Diaw) The truth is that the Bulls haven't developed a decent big man in 20 years. They squandered half of Tyson Chandlers career, they have made Wallace into a stiff, and Ty Thomas has not developed whatsoever. So I take their opinion with a grain of salt. What opinion? Those are facts son. Eddy Curry, in every year of his professional career, has been a net negative - offense and defense. Look it up - www.82games.com And for the record - Elton Brand and Brad Miller both progressed nicely in Chicago. Thanks again Jerry Krause.

I just wanted to add one more thing about Curry - courtesy of another poster on the Bulls board. Quote: No team, no organization, no collection of players, no coach, has ever had a season with Eddy Curry where the team scored more points per 100 possessions with him on the court than with him off of it. Offensively, the one constant in every single season of Eddy Curry's career is that his teams perform better offensively with him on the bench. And notice I haven't even touched on defense yet. But I will just real quick - it plays out the same as the offense. Every team he's played on gives up less points with him on the bench than with him on the court. In sum, over the course of his entire career he's been a net negative for his team on both ends of the court. That is the very definition of being a bad basketball player.

Quote: Mudder thanks for the insights on the Bulls. As I said from the outside it looks like some very poor management over the past couple of years. In terms of signing Ben, I can't reemember who else was available, but the results have been poor. No doubt. Its been like "the perfect 'shite' storm" this season. The Ben W signing is going to set the Bulls back at least a season if it doesn't get taken care of. The positive for the Bulls is that there are only 2 more years left on his deal - so even if they have to put up with him for one more season he then becomes an expiring. Not ideal, but its better than nothing. Quote: In terms of poor coaching, I think Mike Woodson and the guy you have are neck and neck on stupid coaching moves. I don't know, our coach is still playing Ben W 30 minutes a game while Noah rides the bench. Thats pretty [censored] stupid.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Yeah, I heard about that last night. Paxson really messed up that team. Imagine if they still had Chandler how good they would be right now. Yeah - taking them to the playoffs three straight years (after 6 years of embarrassing play) and having them picked as Eastern Conference contenders at the beginning of this year - what was he thinking? Well, if Chandler had played anything like he played his last year in Chicago - probably not very good. Chandler had given up on Chicago - he wasn't going to go to the next level there. Oh, and lets not forget that Chris Paul isn't playing in Chicago - I think he might have a little something to do with Tysons offensive improvements. But you can't ignore the really bad choice in signing Ben and then the subsequent poor play this year. I will defer to your insights on why the Bulls are playing so poorly this year, but from the outside it looks like Paxson made some very bad moves over the past couple of years. This isn't to say Paxson is in the BK realm of goofy moves by any means, by the by. In hindsight the Big Ben signing was terrible, but at the time it was the best option. Chandler had just come off the worst season of his career and had played historically bad in the playoffs - all of this after being rewarded with a new contract. The Bulls had the caproom, and couldn't roll it over to the next offseason because of the Hinrich extension and Nocioni RFA. They went and signed the best FA on the market at a position of need. The Bulls frontcourt was absolutely atrocious, and it was thought that Ben could stabilize it. Because of The owners edict on salary, Paxson was forced to trade Chandler after signing Ben. Chandler had been given 5 years in Chicago and aside from one good season had been a pretty big disappointment. I actually like Chandler, he seems like a good kid, but he was done in Chicago. Whehther it was the pressure of being traded for Brand or the new contract - who knows. The trade did light a fire under him though and he did things he never did in Chicago (like hire a trainer and a nutritionist) In retrospect the Big Ben signing was obviously a mistake, but to Pax's credit he only signed him to a 4 year deal that also declines each year. Big Ben's contract expires the same season that Lebron, Wade, and the rest of the big FA's become available. Its doubtful we sign them, but it is possible that Bens contract becomes a valuable expiring - like Kwame was this season. Why are the Bulls playing so bad this season? There are a multitude of reasons, some of which include injuries (to Deng, Gordon, and Hinrich) Big Bens suckitude, coaching, and two players response to not signing a new contract (Deng and Gordon). Skiles had given up on the team, and in his place Pax hired an assistant as the interim. This assistant has shown himself to be quite possibly the stupidest coach in the history of the NBA. His substitutions are maddening and predictable. He plays the veterans until their legs fall off - even when the younger players behind them have proven themselves to be better. Deng and Gordon have been out for extended periods, and Hinrich has been missing games of late. These three guys account for almost 55 points a game. Big Ben sucks, and even though Noah has proven to be a better player Ben is still playing 35+ minutes a game. In general it seems like everything that could go wrong has gone wrong.

Quote: Paxon's only accomplishment was ripping off a stupid Isaih Thomas in the Curry trade. He then squandered the picks just like BK has done. Taking Tyrus over Aldridge was stupid, especially when Tyrus is a dupe of what he already had. Big Ben was a terrible move and many here called it at the time. Made no sense because they needed post offense and then they acquire a guy who can't even make a layup...and sign him to a deal well past his prime. In fact, he was done when they got him. Then, they blew chances at Garnett and Gasol because Paxon overvalued his guards and Deng. In Paxon's eyes Hinrich was some untouchable HOF in waiting when in reality he's just a decent player. He also hasnt gotten jack from Sefolosha. All in all, the Bulls and Paxon blew it. They are further from a real team than the Hawks. The Hawks need a coach, the Bulls have replicated the same positions. Paxon frankly has lost his mojo. He needs to call Isaih to get his rep back. If you are going to rip a guy, at least no what you are talking about - and at the very least know how to spell his name. He chose Tyrus because he believed him to be the best player in the draft. They had injury concerns with Aldridge, and frankly they believed him to be 'soft'. He might have blown it big time, but frankly I am going to wait more than 18 months before I call Tyrus a bust. 1/3 of the GM's surveyed voted Tyrus as the best player from that draft in 5 years. His second pick Thabo is having a great run as a starter with everyone injured, and Noah is already proving himself to be a great pick at 9. What FA was available that had a low post game that they could have spent their FA dollars on? Big Ben was the best FA available - so they signed him. It was a huge mistake, but who should they have signed? They only had the cap space for one season, so it was use it or lose it. Now for the trades. Paxson offered Deng, Chandler and the #2 pick in the draft for Garnett. We didn't have a low post player like Jefferson to offer. Who could we have sent to them to better the offer? Paxson offered a 9million expiring(PJ Brown), Tyrus Thomas and the #9 pick in the draft for Pau - I'm guessing Memphis wished they had taken that deal last year. Paxson had a deal agreed to with the Lakers for Kobe Bryant (which included Deng). Kobe vetoed the deal, because he did not want to go to the Bulls if Deng wasn't on the team. Which deal did Pax drop the ball on? As for his perception of Hinrich - what the hell are you basing that off of? I haven't heard one report of a team trying to get Hinrich and Pax refusing. And if he loves his guards so much why the hell did he offer Gordon a moderate contract? Pax has repeatedly talked about us needing to improve at the guard spots. I don't think Pax is the best GM in the NBA, but I do believe he has been better than most. He took a team that was at the bottom of the NBA and had literally no talent on the roster (thanks Jerry Krause) and in two seasons turned them into a playoff team. He got them to 49 wins and had them as Eastern Conf contenders at the beginning of the seasons. Again, if you are going to criticize, at least know what you are talking about. Stop watching so much Charles Barkley.

Quote: Imagine if they still had Brad Miller, Ron Artest, Elton Brand, and Chandler to go with some spare pieces they could have drafted/signed. I'm surprised that anyone would trade for Big Ben with his age/production/salary although the Knicks can afford it and they are probably the one team that needs him the most. He makes both Randolph and Curry significantly more valuable as long as he is the game with one of them. Finally a good move by the Knicks it seems. Yep - thats why Jerry Krause is now a baseball scout. As for the trade - it saves the Bulls about 7 million dollars and opens up playing time for Noah. Despite the Bulls being the most profitable franchise in the NBA - they are more than frugal in their spending. This was reported last week, and there is little chance that it actually happens. It would actually be a decent deal for both teams - the Knicks need post defense in the worst way and the Bulls need to play Noah.

Quote: Yeah, I heard about that last night. Paxson really messed up that team. Imagine if they still had Chandler how good they would be right now. Yeah - taking them to the playoffs three straight years (after 6 years of embarrassing play) and having them picked as Eastern Conference contenders at the beginning of this year - what was he thinking? Well, if Chandler had played anything like he played his last year in Chicago - probably not very good. Chandler had given up on Chicago - he wasn't going to go to the next level there. Oh, and lets not forget that Chris Paul isn't playing in Chicago - I think he might have a little something to do with Tysons offensive improvements.

Quote: Ask Chicago fans whether they'd rather have Eddy Curry right now or Ben Wallace. Quote: I think you might be surprised by the answer. Its a flawed argument to begin with (its like asking me if I'd rather eat dog crap or cat crap) but most Bulls fans want Ben gone so Noah can get the minutes he deserves.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Immediately following the NY trade, all of their fans were busy laughing at us Chicago fans for giving Curry away I find it hard to believe that NY fans thought they were stealing Curry. He cost a good penny in salary and the two picks they sent for him were thought to be very high. The point about Curry is that while he would cost money he wouldn't cost draft picks for us, nor would he cost us much in players in a trade. W No, actually NY fans did think they got him for a steal - at least the fans on the boards I frequent did. They thought they were getting an All-Star caliber Center for less than 10million a season. And no one expected the Knicks to be as bad as they were, and consequently the picks to be as good as they turned out to be. Even if you got Curry for free, he isn't worth it. He's a complainer and a whiner who had his Mom go to the press because he was upset at Chicago. He is a negative on any team he plays on, his PPG don't outweigh the points he'll give up or the rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks he won't make an effort to get. In short, he is a 6'11" 340 pound Tim Thomas, who took weight loss pills because he was too lazy to put in the work, and 7 years later is the same soft, meek, big kid who would rather be on the rings than an NBA court.

Quote: Quote: Immediately following the NY trade, all of their fans were busy laughing at us Chicago fans for giving Curry away I find it hard to believe that NY fans thought they were stealing Curry. He cost a good penny in salary and the two picks they sent for him were thought to be very high. The point about Curry is that while he would cost money he wouldn't cost draft picks for us, nor would he cost us much in players in a trade. W No, actually NY fans did think they got him for a steal - at least the fans on the boards I frequent did. They thought they were getting an All-Star caliber Center for less than 10million a season. And no one expected the Knicks to be as bad as they were, and consequently the picks to be as good as they turned out to be. Even if you got Curry for free, he isn't worth it. He's a complainer and a whiner who had his Mom go to the press because he was upset at Chicago. He is a negative on any team he plays on, his PPG don't outweigh the points he'll give up or the rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks he won't make an effort to get. In short, he is a 6'11" 340 pound Tim Thomas, who took weight loss pills because he was too lazy to put in the work, and 7 years later is the same soft, meek, big kid who would rather be on the rings than an NBA court.

Nobody needs Eddy Curry. You probably haven't seen many of his games, because anyone who has watched more than a few Eddy Curry games quickly realizes that he is a net negative on any team he plays on. Eddy Curry pro's: Efficient Post scorer Eddy Curry con's: Turnover machine Doesn't defend Doesn't rebound Doesn't pass Doesn't jump I watched him for 4 seasons in Chicago and saw more than enough to know what kind of player he is. Immediately following the NY trade, all of their fans were busy laughing at us Chicago fans for giving Curry away - go ask those same fans now what they think of him now. As for not being able to teach 6'11" 285 - Curry hasn't been that weight since he was drafted. He has no drive to get better, and even a trade to NY to play with his hetero life mate Crawford didn't inspire him. He's the only player I know who actually gains weight during the season. He's been given every opportunity by two franchises (Cartwright was hired by Chicago specifically to work with Curry and Chandler) and 7 seasons later he is still a liability to his team. Hell - he just got benched by Isiah, and NY fans are clamoring for Jerome James to get healthy so Curry can find his way to the bench permanently. NY spent one season force-feeding him the ball, and while he did post career numbers, the team still couldn't overcome his numerous short-comings. You can't win with a center who doesn't defend, rebound, block shots, or pass the ball. Look at Curry's numbers - they even came up with a stat-metric called the "Curry Line" because Curry is so historically bad. He averages more turnovers than assists, steals, and blocks combined. The only people who still see Curry as a legitimate starting Center, are those people mesmerized by PPG - so mesmerized that they ignore every other aspect of the game. He has all the talent in the world - he just doesn't care. Greatest Skiles quote ever - when asked by a reporter how Eddy could improve his rebounding, Skiles responded, "Jump."

Noooooooooo... I fear change.

Quote: I would like to trade for a Andres Nocioni and Chris Duhon package But i'm not sure what i would give up for them. Sold. We need three practice balls, and two slightly used nets. But if you want to throw Childress in the box, we'll take him as well.

Quote: I rank Nash above Stockton though, you are right, it's irrelevant to the mistake, assuming KG was theirs. Holy crap. I don't even know what to say to that. I guess you're fine with Nash only playing one end of the court. Defense is half the game people.

Quote: There is almost no doubt in my mind after seeing this Gasol trade go down that BK's is almost powerless to do anything that can improve this team. Not because he doesnt want to but because our screwed up ayss owners wont allow him to. Pau basically went to the Lakers for expireings and Critt. Those 2 1st round picks they got will be in the late 20's unless the Lakers suffer massive injuries. We could have easily toped that offer, EASILY. We had enough expires in Lo, Lue and young talent in Salim, and Chills to get this done. I would assume Chills is more value than two real late 1st round picks. This trade had nothing to do with value - it was all about cutting salary to expedite a sale of the team. Chillz is a RFA - and would have had a cap hold. Late first round picks aren't going to cost nearly as much.

Eddie Jordan was credited with the success of those Nets teams, and rightfully so. Byron took what he learned from Eddy to NO - and it sure has helped Byron that once again he has the best PG in the league on his team.

Quote: Clevland contended last year despite being not that great. Its slightly disingenuous to say that Cleveland contended. Sure they made the finals, but they didn't contend for anything but second place.

Quote: would do that deal in a heartbeat, especially since Hinrichs deal seems to be frontloaded. I can't imagine the Bulls doing it though. Last season he was considered basically untouchable. I don't know, but word from the beat reporters is that Paxson is going to look to shake up the team in the off-season. Hinrich is one of the players that was mentioned as "available in trades" by the reporters. We have a small backcourt and would be looking to improve that. Duhon is a FA, and hopefully will be allowed to walk away for nothing. Gordon might be resigned - or he might be trade bait as well. Who knows... Thabo has proven over the last couple of weeks that he is capable of playing big minutes at either the 1, 2 ,or 3. Adreian Griffin is old and will most likely die on the bench.

So I come to you with tail tucked firmly between my legs. The Bulls suck long, they suck hard, they suck deep and with conviction. One of the areas we as fans would like the Bulls to improve to improve the team is to clear up the backcourt situation. Childress is going to be a RFA this offseason, and I was curious whether you guys had a read on what is going to play out with his contract? What would you guys as fans think of a straight up Hinrich / for Childress trade this offseason - even withAcie ready to take the reins? Would it be weel received in Atlanta, what is the perception of Hinrich here?

Quote: nah, the restart happens after teh free throws thank goodness I agree - but he was implying that the restart starts with the Hawks up by three & 2 free throws.

Quote: Quote: We get screwed over on and off the court today costing us two wins They going to replay the game and if we make free throws, it's a win since the game starts at 52 secs with us up by 3. Maybe this will motivate the team and when they try to make it back to .500 ...we can put anther W in the win column. You were up by 1 with 52 left and 2 FT's. Here is the updated game log: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=271219001

Quote: I noticed that the Hawksquawk homepage says "no TV" for tomorrow's game, but my TV listings say that WGN out of Chicago will carry it @ 2pm ( 1pm central ). Yep - it is on WGN Superstation, so as long as you get WGN you'll get the game. Quote: Yes, that does mean that you have to listen to the worst, most homeristic TV announcers in the NBA, unless you hit the mute button. I think you have us confused with the Celtics announcing team. Just a primer though for those of you who have never seen a Bulls game on WGN. If you hear a weird noise during the broadcast - its probably Johnny "Red" Kerr chewing on some hard candy. He likes to open them (you'll hear that as well) and eat during the telecast.