thescout

Marvin's a regular Bruce Bowen on the team. I have to say the other players on the team must suck if Marvin is the best small perimeter forward on the team.I see no reason to keep him around for the money he gets paid and the only thing he can do is play defense.One thing the playoffs showed is how out of sync the offense is without perimeter shooting or an inside game. Marvin just addes to the problem since he isn't making others better around him.

Trade both I want neither player. The small forward position in the league generally is one where the player can score points especially in the playoffs. Neither Marvin or Childress are a threat against better teams. It's like the Falcon's when you play better teams gives you a chance to see how you meassure up and thankfully the Falcon's are young and have the right potential at key positions. Marvin might rack up points vs average and bad teams but we all know come the playoffs if you can't drive to the hoop or add a consistent jump shot your dead meat in this league. Chils can drive but sorry I really want someone else that as potential and key at least be a threat vs better teams.

Exactly KB21 the media in the big markets are just creating a story for their fans.It's pretty sickening whether baseball or basketball the New York's,Chicago's, and LA's take alot of the media attention. It's like screw all the other fans of other teams.

At this point I think you have to get what you can for Bibby and Marvin since both are way overpaid. Some players just want the money and will perform well during the contract year. Once they sign the pressure is off and they go back to their off and on again games. We can't turn the clock back but what we can do is get rid of some of the big contracts which will enable the Hawks to make better moves to help the team. I'm not advocating just dumping the players for nothing but if there is another player that can do a similar job for less money why not. Sometimes players just need another city to play in to perform so maybe we take someone else's albatross contract and hope the player performs well.U think it is time for the Hawks to give Teague a shot or someone else.Bibby can't play good enough defense and seems to want to score more than assist. Marvin I am just tired of his act of all potential but when you see him play it's like he can't chew gum and walk at the same time. Also he has no consistent outside shot nor can he post up .He's young but after a period of time players are what they are. I hope Marvin is working on his game but it wouldn't surprise me if he is home playing nintendo games and doing everything but what he should be doing.Larry Bird didn't have great talent physical skills but he worked hour after hour shooting the ball.As much as these players get paid why can't you simply work on the fundamentals and get the most out of your ability.

I was reading about Amare from a Phoenix fan who said Amare pretty much tanked the season till the playoffs going for the big contract.Amare scares me not sure I want him is he worth the risk?

One guy I would love to have is Biedrins from Golden State.I know he isn't a free agent but he can rebound,block shots and then you let the other players score.We have no interior defense vs better teams.

I think that's the million dollar question in Drew's system how good are the players going to be? The Hawks historically have never been a franchise that moved the ball which is why you get one on one play and isolations way to much. If we do resign JJ he can't be the main focus on offense like it was. Live by the outside shot die by it. Smoove and Horford have to pick up their game but the other issue we really do need another small forward you can depend on. Marvin just doesn't get it done and J Crawford did play alot but I'd rather have another small forward instead of JJ moving to that position when Crawford comes in. We really do have more issues on the roster than just JJ but he is the first big question on the roster. Who do you have to replace him with? I wonder what Salmons will get vs JJ? The rookie Jordan Crawford and Jamal Crawford won't replace JJ on things like defense. Guess will find out soon and get some questions answered.

Agreed, you look at other teams like San Antonio finding legit NBAers from Europe and the Hawks never seem to find one solid player.I think our scouting dept in Europe stinks probably because there is a low budget for the scouting dept. This is just another indication the Hawks have cheap ownership compared to the elite teams. You want to win in the NBA you need money and I just don't think the Hawks ownership is willing to go the extra length it takes to build a championship organization.

Agreed AHF with your post. Sometimes you don't need that star player to make your team better. Look at the Celtic's they have a trio of bigs in the middle to give Howard enough problems that it put the Celtics over the top. Little things add up and it's funny teams like the Celtics,Lakers do what it takes to win signing their own players and adding to the talent. The Hawks don't seem to get it or just are to poor to do it. Sell the team if you can't afford to put a team that has a chance to win a championship its not rocket science, Right now the Hawks will have to do everything to just resign JJ and I believe Crawford. If both players come back then how have we added to the talent base when you know the Hawks won't make any more moves in the off season. They can talk how Drew is going to do this and that but the fact the Hawks still have an undersized team to face the elite teams it's going to be the same thing next year getting beat on the boards ,relying on jump shots and not winning in the paint means knocked out of the playoffs 1st or 2nd round.

I said this on another thread while teams like the Celtic's find the Big Baby's in the 2nd round the Hawks sell their pick off for money. If you can't afford to put money in the product then sell the team. I am sure you'll see a few 2nd rounder make good contributions to their teams this year and what do the Hawks do give up on the player. Whether it was the 7 footer or some other player why do the Hawks always manage to screw things up and waste their 2nd rounders. Good organizations that win alot and go for championships make the best of it but the Hawks seem to think their talent is already good enough. Next year at this time will look back and think why didn't we draft so and so in the 2nd while the players makes a good contribution for his team. Hope that money the Hawks get for the pick really helps on building the championship team we want. This is why its frustrating being a Hawks fan seeing other teams get stronger while we just sit back and waste picks.

Other teams come up with the Big Baby's in the 2nd round the Hawks sell their picks for money lets you know how serious they are. I'm pissed! This Hawk management doesn't know how to draft big men if they fell out of the sky. Hawk management just sell the damn team the Hawks' are not going anywhere with management refusing to put money into the franchise.

BPA to a fill a need is what it's called. It would be like saying lewts draft another power forward if you went BPA and the best available was a power forward. All things being equal if a center grades out comparable to a guard/forward you draft the center. The Hawks couldn't do anything right vs Orlando.They got tore up from the inside to the outside. Playoffs are usually won in the paint so the Hawks if their serious need to find another big man to add to what they have and maybe slow down Howard.Your not going to stop him but at least get a big man that can put a hand in his face.Having Horford guard him its no contest. Orlando was hitting 3's all day vs the Hawks so either it is bad players defense or the philosphy.The Hawks need to take a page from the Celtics and find out how to slow down Orlando.

I agree mental toughness this team lacks but it also lacks a player that can slow down Howard.Orlando rained 3's on the Hawks so they had an inside and outside game. Boston beat Orlando but after a few games Orlando started to make a comeback which fell short. Smoove is a tweener at least for now,Marvin unreliable doesn't add much, Bibby to slow,Horford gets eaten up by bigs. There are many problems and I doubt were going to find the answers with the current squad.

Good points guys on solving the Hawks problems. I think anyway you look at it we need another big.Boston was able to defeat Orlando with their big tandem although Dwight still had a good series.Not sure how to get another big but rebounding is a key as well as the other points like ball movement,defense. Even if Smoove gets better at boards how do you slow Dwight down. Dwight can score on any of our front court players at will. Besides the Dwight problem ball movement has always been a probelm even back to the 1980's. We always play an isloated game and unless you have a kobe or lebron who can carry a team so far by scoring alot it won't work in the later rounds of the playoffs. Teams are to good and will slow your top scorer down thus getting everyone involved is critical. I think we need some better players. We can talk about improving what we have but I don't this team is talented enough to get to a NBA championship. We have to many parts and not a team concept.You can beat alot of average and below average teams in the regular season but in the playoffs 2nd round on unless you play a team game your history. Players like Allen,Pierce Rondo for Boston stepped it up players on losing teams don't perform to their capabilties.

Hawks lose in the 2nd round again with that lineup. Remember we almost lost to an undermaned Bucks team tells you something. We need another big in the middle,small forward (maybe Chills),resign JJ, and solve the Smoove situation. If Smoove stays he needs to show up in the playoffs instead of being outplayed. Not sure what the new offense will do but in the playoffs if you can't play half court offense your sunk. The Hawks can't post up and eventually what we have seen is outside shooting lets us down. Defensively other good teams simply are not afraid of Horford and Smoove on the front court. We don't play physical enough and that hurts team defense.

A running team is good but lets face it in the playoffs if you can't play half court your going to lose. The Hawks may be the Phoenix Suns of the East but there comes a point when you have to have the players to matchup vs other half court teams in the playoffs. The Hawks don't have the right players to win past the first round. We can resgin JJ but until the Hawks find some tougher big men it will be the same song and dance.

I'm sure Marvin's hard at work working on his ninendo games. Marvin doesn't want maximize his potential and now that he has his big contract what is going to motivate him? I'm sorry but Marvin lacks basketball IQ and work ethic to be much better than he already is. He deserves to be on the bench and hopefully the Hawks can find a legit small forward that can shoulder some of the scoring. Marvin is a big tease and if he puts a few games together that are solid people jump on the band wagon. Sund better go out and find a legit small forward since it was painfully obvious in the playoffs the Hawks didn't have alot of mismatches to win playoff games.

It comes down to both offense and defense need much improvement. Not only that but the personel on the team doesn't matchup in the playoffs. Sure you get beat alot of teams in the regular season but the playoffs are a different animal. Defenses collapse and don't give you an inside game for the most part. Stil you need to score in the low post to win which comes down to better talented players the other team has in the playoffs. For 2 yrs Smoove didn't get it done vs Cleveland and Orlando. He has no go to move and constantly gets overmatched in the playoffs when you get past the 1st round. Even Milwaukee almost beat the Hawks without their two best players, Horford needs help.Add another big that is better than the washed up bigs coming off the bench.You see how Boston is playing Orlando well why can't the Hawks find some bigs? Don't want to derail the thread so to answer the question I don't want Casey.We've lived Bob Weiss,Woodson and how many other unproven coaches. Casey not sure if he got a fiar shake with Minny but I would like a proven coach.Someone that knows both offense and defense instead of what we had in Woody. Smoove isn't the only problem but my point is we need better players that can perform in the playoffs and a better coach.

The Hawks just don't have the right parts to contend for a championship. Two years in a row Smoove got shut down vs Cleveland and this year vs Orlando.Bibby disappeared after signing his contract same with Marvin.JJ wasn't nowhere to be found.Last we bought the failure was due to injuries this year its pointed at Woody. When is management going to realize this team isn't assembled correctly to go deep in the playoffs? No one is saying trading Smoove for a scrub. You usually win in the playoffs with an inside game the Hawks don't have won when matching up with Orlando or even Cleveland. The point guard situation is easy let Teague play. Find a small forward Marvin's game deserves to be on the bench.There needs to be some player changes if the Hawks want to get it right. The current team has played together quite awhile and won't get much better even with a new coach,

No thanks on Casey. Just another retread and I am sick of the no name coaches. Bring in a named coach even if you have to pay extra money. If the Hawks don't bring in a named coach were just spining our wheels again for another year.Ownership needs to make a statement to it's fans otherwise what's to get excited about next year?

Until the Hawks get another big man or 2 and a point guard they'll continue to struggle vs Orlando.Charlotte and now Boston have the formula.It's going to take more than a new coach to become an elite team.

Good bye Woody don't let the door hit you on the way out. :blow out candles: :blow out candles: :thumbsupsmileyanim: :thumbsupsmileyanim: . People forget that the Hawks had top 5 picks a few years,Smoove and a decent talented roster and even with time and talent they couldn't advance past round 2. Sometimes a change of scenery is needed and now the Hawks can move on and hopefully pick a coach who knows how to make adjustments and play young players. I always got frustrated Woody never gave alot of playing time to young point guards.

Great post Sothron! I have to agree with all your points about the Hawks. There are simply to many quesitons on this team to make a run in the future for a championship. Just adding a few pieces here or there isn't going to get the job done. Looking at the positions here are a few thoughts. 1.Marvin - can play defense and rebound thats it. A small forward needs to provide offense and Marvin simply will never be an offensive threat nightly in the league. 2.Bibby - I was afraid this was going to happen. Bibby had a decent to good year last year and now that he has the money goes back to being a player who shouldn't be the leader at point guard. 3.Horford - does a good job vs most centers but will always be undersized vs Dwight. If the Hawks want to move forward they must put Horford at power forward. That would mean Smoove gets traded most likely since I doubt he can hang with the small forwards in the league. 4.JJ - puts up good regular season stats but always falls short in the playoffs.No way do I sign him to a max deal. A sign and trade would be best. Rem,ember the Hawks acquired JJ on a sign and trade. 5.Smoove - plays well during the season but when forced to play vs big or bigger plays can't get the job done. Trade bait! This team is as far as it can go with Woody and the roster. I wouldn't mind gettting rid of Bibby,Marvin and JJ but at this point everyone is trade bait except Horford.How do you beat a team with Dwight on it? 1.You must have a superstar on your team or a team similar to the old Detroit Pistons who had Dumars,Thomas,Laimbeer. Right now the Hawks don't have a superstar. 2.Cleveland and Boston have exchangeable parts at center. Not only do you need very good players at all positions or at least one superstar but notice how Cleveland and Boston have built their teams.They don't have star centers which are rare.You have to have 2-3 players that can slow Dwight down and the rest of the positions have to beat their man. This really is a team with a bunch of parts and when they face higher caliber teams get dismantled. We need a few Jerry West moves but I doubt Sund has that ability to pull a few rabbits out of the hat. Maybe the Hawks need to let Teague play and go with the growing pains he'll have. Bibby can only take you so far and having him and Marvin in the same lineup will ultimately kill your team vs better teams.Horford needs to be playing power forward and trading Smoove will hurt but I think the bigger gain is a more productive lineup having a legit small forward who can score. You either need a quality small or point guard for Smoove.We have Teague already so I don't know who maybe available but you don't give Smoove away for less.

That's exactly right Teke about the Hawks front court being to scared to go inside and challenge the bigger players of the lakers. Remember in the playoffs the Hawks got killied in the paint and most of it was because Cleveland had Varajo and the center/Smoove didn't challenge to go inside and people kept making the excuse only if we had Marvin. Marvin/Smoove are not going to get us over the hump no matter if their here 4 years or 10 years. They fear going inside and in the playoffs who controls the paint usually wins.

Same ole Hawks team not being able to get it done vs the better compeition.We've kept this team around for awhile either they put up this year and go deep or the Hawks need to find some more pieces . Where were J Smith and Marvin tonight? We still can't control the lane yet these guys are now getting paid like kings. Before it was keep the group together which management has done. There really should be no excuses on why this team can't take the next step. The players need to take accountability and if they get it done bring in new players.